NSA Dissents From Other Agencies Over Russian Bounty Intel

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    • #332218
      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 16,208

      (Antiwar.com) The Wall Street Journal reported on Tuesday that the National Security Agency “strongly dissented from other intelligence agencies’ assessment that Russia paid bounties for the killing of US soldiers in Afghanistan.”

      The Journal cites “people familiar with the matter” and does not give much detail, but the story is noteworthy, as the NSA has dissented from other agencies in the past over allegations against Russia. A January 2017 intelligence assessment that concluded Russia interfered in the 2016 election on President Trump’s behalf was given “high confidence” by the CIA and FBI while the NSA gave “moderate confidence.”

      (skip)

      The Journal’s disclosure reinforces the Trump administration’s claim that the intelligence was not strong enough, and there was no consensus among intelligence officials on the information. The Pentagon said on Monday it has not seen “corroborating evidence” to support The New York Times report that alleged Russian GRU agents offered bounties to Taliban-linked militants to kill US troops.

      Secretary of Defense Mark Esper reiterated the Pentagon’s claims in a statement on Tuesday. “Although the Department of Defense has no corroborating evidence at this time to validate recent allegations regarding malign activity by Russian personnel against US forces in Afghanistan, I want to assure all of our service members that the Department takes very seriously any and all potential threats against US military personnel,” Esper said.

      Full story here.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332225
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      Other sources, specifically Saajar Enjeti and Ryan Grim on Hill Rising, say that the CIA’s “evidence” came from HUMINT, or “human intelligence,” based on Afghans taken prisoner and on reports from the Afghan government. The prisoner bit is problematic given the CIA’s record on torture. As for the Afghan government, if there’s anyone who has incentive to keep American forces in Afghanistan forever, it’s the Afghan government.

      They know damned well that within weeks or months of an American withdrawal, they are fucking done. I’m sure the most successfully corrupt ones already have money safely stashed away in Dubai and Geneva to finance their anticipated lives in exile. Of course they’re going to tell the CIA what they want them to hear.

      The CIA, of course, wants to believe it, because they’ve got this opium thing going on just like they did in Laos to finance all sorts of fun little coups and subversions of various Third World governments. You know, like the Bay of Piglets that Venezuelan fisherman foiled a few months ago. Plus, they get all sorts of Afghan War money to finance their nefarious operations.

      The NSA, OTOH, has no dog in this fight. Their budget remains unchanged, Afghan War or no Afghan War. They have few, if any, overseas operatives. They’re mostly nerds like Ed Snowden gathering electronic data, so when they didn’t intercept anything in Russia or Afghanistan that indicated bounties were being paid, they just said there was zero evidence.

      How about that? I actually agree with the NSA!

      Not only that, but the Pentagon says there’s no evidence. No wonder they didn’t tell Trump. He’s a narcissistic child, and who knows when he’s going to fly off the handle and do something rash? Why tell him something unless you’re sure it’s true, or unless you really, really want him to do something?

      Meanwhile, Democrat Senator Sasse from Nebraska says he wants to see a plan for putting Russian intelligence agents in body bags. What an asshole. Still wonder why I won’t Vote Blue No Matter Who? Anyone? Bueller?

      So that should be it, then. But it won’t be. Too many people are all aflutter about saying Trump’s inaction proves him unfit. People like Rachel Maddow, and those who foolishly believe the propaganda spouted by her ilk.

       

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332232
      MistaP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,709

      2007-13 there wasn’t a year with more than 100 US deaths–the peak was 500 in 2010

      2015 22

      2016 14

      2017 17

      2018 15

      2019 22

      don’t think they’re getting their money’s worth …

    • #332363
      3fingerbrown
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      • Total Posts: 2,788

      Great points OB. I’ve run out of energy arguing all things Russia Bad! with the same blinded with TDS “liberals”.  The bottom line is, even if this story is true, which it may well be ( I highly doubt it), any illegally invading foreign army gets whats coming to it, no matter where they come from.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #332396
      Stockholmer
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    • #332447
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      @stockholmer

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332457
      peacecorps
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      If the reports were credible enough to issue warning to our allies and military leaders in Afghanistan, I would think they would inform the president too. If Trump were to speak to a leader of an ally country and that leader made reference to this report having been provided to them, I would think Trump would want to know more about it than the other leader did.

      Word is now that the report was in the PDB but Trump has it read to him and the skipped that part. (On purpose to avoid Trump’s temper or just ran out of time?)

      Don’t presidents receive ‘unverified’ reports all the time, just as a head up? “You should know this is out there but it is unverified at this point. We are working on it but wanted to keep you informed.” A president could then either light a fire under his IC people to prioritize the issue, just file it away for future reference or tell them that it is a low priority.

      If they gave a heads up to our allies and the military,  why didn’t they do the same for the Commander-in-Chief?

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #332459
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      @peacecorps That says something, does it not?

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332480
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,083

      The is one of those spying/intelligence cases where none of us will ever have all the facts so, for the most part, we believe whatever we want to believe.

      What I do not understand is why wasn’t told of the report at the time, as our allies and military were, whether or not the report turned out to be accurate. If it was good enough to inform them, was it not good enough to inform the president? Even just a heads up? What if allied leaders or generals in Afghanistan called the president/commander-in-chief for clarification or more information? He is going to look pretty stupid not to even know what they are talking about.

      It is a Presidential DAILY Briefing. If I were president I would want to know what had happened or been learned in the past 24 hours. At first it is unlikely that most new information is going to be thoroughly verified but I would still want to know. I can then instruct them how to proceed in investigating it or direct them to ignore a report.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #332489
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      @peacecorps If I were a member of the Joint Chiefs or had a Cabinet position for Trump, there’s no way I’d tell him anything from an intelligence agency that I didn’t believe because I wouldn’t know what bizarre and dangerous thing he might do. I’m not defending Trump; he’s unfit as he can be, but that may be exactly why they didn’t brief him.

      If the President was not a stupid, ignorant, narcissistic child, they probably would have told him. So yes, Trump’s obviously unfit.

      But the people pushing this story want to either A) Derail the peace talks, B) Distract the public from impending socioeconomic catastrophe,  C) Just attack Trump because Trump Bad!, or D) All of the above. They do not have the American people’s best interests at heart by pushing this story.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332519
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,083

      You know that is not the reason they did not tell him. Surely they know him well enough to know that he would react back then to this news the way he is reacting now – by calling it ‘fake news’ and a ‘scam’. And he might want to fire whoever brought this to his attention. They were not afraid that he would do something ‘bizarre and dangerous’ – like bombing Russia?

      First reports are often confused and unverified. They passed it along to our allies and military but not to the president. That is no reason not to tell him new intelligence as long as the president understands that it is a long way from being verified. They told him. Or he would have fired someone by now for not telling him so that ‘the buck would stop’ with someone else.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #332570
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      @peacecorps I also don’t care. This whole thing is in and of itself an insignificant development. It’s only significant to those who are pushing to keep the war going. The gods know there’s already plenty to criticize Trump over that’s a lot worse than whether or not he received a briefing on bounties that don’t matter one whit to soldiers in the field.

      Why don’t you knock Trump for his spectacular failure to handle the pandemic and the lost incomes of tens of millions of Americans? This shit does not matter at all to them, and it only matters to me because I get to take a swipe at the CIA, Pravda-on-the-Hudson, and warmongering Democrats at the same time.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332653
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,083

      “Why don’t you knock Trump for his spectacular failure to handle the pandemic and the lost incomes of tens of millions of Americans?”

      I do. I just did not know that meant I could not respond to OP’s about other topics.

      If you think that is is insignificant that they didn’t tell Trump (or that he is lying about) something about Russia that they thought was significant enough to tell allies in Europe and our military, that is fine with me. If you think that means I support keeping troops indefinitely in Afghanistan, you are wrong.

      I still feel free to criticize politicians who go with the ‘gut’ or their personal self-interest (often the same thing) rather than listening to anyone else who might know more than they do. If you think that anyone who criticizes Trump on this has to be a warmonger, so be it.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #332655
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      @peacecorps I just printed an article that throws serious doubt that there ever were any Russian bounties. That’s the point. Maybe they didn’t brief Trump because it never happened. That’s really what I think. I don’t trust the CIA, and I trust the puppet Afghan government even less, and those are the sources for this whole new Russiagate shit the Democrats are peddling.

      I think it’s bullshit. Like Pizzagate without the child sex rings. Like Russian interference in our elections.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332765
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 874

      @peacecorps:

      Who are the people in Europe, who were told this? I want

      names and dates, not some slanderous referral. I need facts, which can be proven.

      We have lived for 3 years with the unprovable and not substantiated

      Russia-gate orgy. The Dems are making themselves into a ridicule if

      they hatch on to this as the senile warmonger Biden seems to do. It

      is totally irrelevant that Trump is a sociopathic liar, when we know

      that the MIC/CIA have been selling us lies at least from the sixties

      on forward. And their lies have killed hundreds of thousands of

      people. The important question to ask is: Why are they bringing

      that up now with the help of operation Mockingbird? I remember

      a time in the early seventies when the Dems did not trust the MIC/CIA.

      W.Casey (former CIA director)to Reagan:”We’ll know our disinformation

      program is complete, when everything the American public believes is

      FALSE.”  That is their mantra, which Obama made legal within the USA.

    • #332785
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,208

      @sadoldgirl Remember him? The Church Committee? They really clipped the CIA’s wings for awhile. Then Reagan came riding to their rescue.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #332828
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 874

      @ohiobarbarian:

      Yes, I remember it well. 3 years after that Church commission I

      read that even then they were too afraid to confront the opium

      trade as well as the gun trade in more depth. That the CIA has

      so much extra governmental power was the gift A. Dulles left us.

      Heck, he even brought the terrible Nazi Gehlen over here and

      who knows what other criminals. I am glad that the pompous

      a** admitted to the motto: “We cheat, we lie, we steal”. Naturally

      he could not add “we torture and kill”for public consumption. It

      was left to Obama to try to calm us with “some folks were tortured”

      and then claim that the torturers were “patriots”.

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