OK, I'm sorry…but this is just a little ridiculous

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    • #330001
      jerry611
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      • Total Posts: 892

      The Houston Association of Realtors no longer uses the word “master” to describe bedrooms and bathrooms on its Multiple Listing Service.

      Earlier this month, HAR replaced the phrases “master bedroom” and “master bathroom” with “primary bedroom” and “primary bathroom” on its property listing database.

      The change came after several HAR members called for a review of the terminology.

      “The MLS Advisory Group regularly reviews the terms and fields used in the MLS to make sure they are consistent with the current market environment,” according to a statement HAR sent its members regarding the change. “The updates to Primary Bedroom and Primary Bath were among nine requests for review that were submitted by members and considered at the most recent meetings.”

      https://www.click2houston.com/news/local/2020/06/25/har-no-longer-using-master-to-describe-bedrooms-and-bathrooms-on-its-property-listing-database/

      Someone is offended by calling it “master bedroom?” Really?

      So “master” is now a banned word? I guess everyone with a Master Degree is going to have a problem.

    • #330004
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,604

      Yeah, there are times when political correctness is completely fucking ridiculous.  This is, at least in part, why I use such terrible fucking language in a lot of my posts – it pisses off those people who are horrified by someone saying a bad word.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m talking about words – not calling by them.  Yeah, this is some whacked out shit.  Oh well.  What word will they ban next?

    • #330016
      bazukhov
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      • Total Posts: 2,685

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #330022
      xyzse
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,504

      It really is getting ridiculous.

      Also, when I see celebrities virtue signaling right now, from their “I Take Responsibility” and other cringe-worthy actions they are doing.  Which honestly, to me is just them looking for attention more than anything else.

      What I dislike so much about these things, is that it TRIVIALIZES the more major inequities and practices that occur.  That these things are built up as if they mean so much, that when harmful practices occur, they lose their impact.

      It’s what happened with the #MeToo movement in some ways.

    • #330024
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,010

      ..is why people hate liberals.

      It is feel good stuff,designed to make people think things are changing when not one law has been passed nationally to restrain or defund the flipping racist,classist,trigger happy cops.

    • #330028
      beeninthewoods
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 95

      she likes it too. She points out that “master” isn’t just about racism. It is about sexism and classism. I like that the realtors organization did this proactively. Now maybe they can remove “servants quarters” from listings.

      • #330033
        Yanath
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,342

        @beeninthewoods

        Subconscious racial and gender biases are clearly perpetuated through language. There’s absolutely nothing wrong or unusual about language evolving along with changing values. I cringe every time I hear a ‘progressive’ using ‘balls’ as a synonym for courage and strength, or saying ‘pussy’ for cowardice and weakness.

        • #330040
          beeninthewoods
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 95

          A lot of people don’t understand the concept of systemic and institutionalized racism. When it becomes part of every day language in a way that most people don’t even see it, that might be when it is most dangerous.

          And I fully agree about “balls” and “pussy”. I often find myself needing to adjust my language regarding those sexist thoughts. Things I catch myself on: “man up”, “don’t be a girl”, “cry like a girl”, “be a man about it”, etc. I just hate how those cliches pop into my use of language. Thankfully my wife points them out!

          As an aside- living here in Minneapolis it has been a big controversy the past 5 years that Lake Calhoun (named after white supremecist James Calhoun) was renamed Bde Mka Ska. A lot of folks thought it ridiculous and complained of the costs of putting up new signage around the lake. After 10 days of fires, rioting and property destruction I wonder if any of the nay sayers have now realized how much money they saved by changing the name. No signs were destroyed at Bde Mka Ska, but I know in the south at least one statue of Calhoun was destroyed.

          • #330074
            xyzse
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,504

            @beeninthewoods

            In the end, I don’t really care that much.  In my view, the way of speaking evolves with time.  As people become more enlightened or know more(or less) the language changes.  What is used now will be discarded and words will change as times go.

            Words change meaning, to the point that they often start meaning the opposite of what it used to be.  That to me, is a function of time rather than enforced by groups.

            I am pretty much anti-censorship and would rather people talk the way they want.  I tend to be more concerned about “Intent” rather than words used.  I can easily insult someone using the most flattering words, where if that is followed, at some point people would start getting upset by the word “Pretty”, “Smart”, and “Gorgeous”.  I understand the importance of being kid-friendly as well, but for the most part, I tend to be anything goes.

            I for one am Asian and LOVED the word Oriental.  That some all of a sudden consider that an insult is ridiculous to me.  I understand the convention of telling people what would be best for polite company, etc., but I would not enforce way of speaking with others.  All I can control is myself.

            As for the original subject.  The realtors are more than welcome to change their wording.  I honestly don’t care as long as they don’t virtue signal that on me and force me to use it.  I get the same way with religious-types who try to enforce certain ways of speaking.  If I am going around in their circles, I will be polite and tend to generally comply, but outside of their houses of worship I don’t care.  I will use their god’s name in vain for all I care, Jayzus!

            So in the end, to me people can talk the way they want.  I care more about what they mean by it, so I consider “Intent” rather than the words used.  It is sad, but I guess people don’t really look at context as much any more, and just go off.  Just like Hillz folk going on and on about how Bernie is a sexist creep due to his fiction-writing made before I was even born.  They talk about a rape fantasy when the context was about people having “deviant” thoughts while showing a veneer of normalcy.

          • #330127
            Cold Mountain Trail
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            • Total Posts: 8,806

            “A lot of people don’t understand the concept of systemic and institutionalized racism.”

            No, a lot of people don’t.  So far as real estate goes, it doesn’t have much to do with master suites or word police.  It has to do with *institutions* that create outcomes that disadvantage & exclude.

            From the horse’s mouth (the guy who coined the term):

            “Racism is both overt and covert. It takes two, closely related forms: individual whites acting against individual blacks, and acts by the total white community against the black community.

            We call these individual racism and institutional racism. The first consists of overt acts by individuals, which cause death, injury or the violent destruction of property. This type can be recorded by television cameras; it can frequently be observed in the process of commission. The second type is less overt, far more subtle, less identifiable in terms of specific individuals committing the acts. But it is no less destructive of human life.

            The second type originates in the operation of established and respected forces in the society, and thus receives far less public condemnation than the first type. When white terrorists bomb a black church and kill five black children, that is an act of individual racism, widely deplored by most segments of the society.

            But when in that same city – Birmingham, Alabama – five hundred black babies die each year because of the lack of proper food, shelter and medical facilities, and thousands more are destroyed and maimed physically, emotionally and intellectually because of conditions of poverty and discrimination in the black community, that is a function of institutional racism. When a black family moves into a home in a white neighborhood and is stoned, burned or routed out, they are victims of an overt act of individual racism which many people will condemn – at least in words.

            But it is institutional racism that keeps black people locked in dilapidated slum tenements, subject to the daily prey of exploitative slumlords, merchants, loan sharks and discriminatory real estate agents. The society either pretends it does not know of this latter situation, or is in fact incapable of doing anything meaningful about it.”

            ― Stokely Carmichael, Black Power: The Politics of Liberation

            https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/900814-racism-is-both-overt-and-covert-it-takes-two-closely

             

             

             

             

    • #330043
      David the Gnome
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      • Total Posts: 2,604

      To explain to the rest of us why this really IS important – and not a bunch of bull shit.

    • #330045
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,700

      Nothing at all.
      It confuses people in often what was plain, common sense usage. Like Master/Slave in hard drives. This has nothing to do with slavery in the United States, but the way the hard drives were setup to work. Slavery is 10’s of thousands of year old.
      The same goes for Master Bedroom. Assumed to be the biggest bedroom, or the one with the attached bathroom.
      I waiting for the name “bathroom” to be changed to something else. Why? Because of what is done in there and people using it stark naked on a regular bases, usually by themselves and sometime (gasp!!!!1) with another person. One can only imagine what goes on behind closed doors! The horror. Bathroom is ripe for Political Correctness to strike in its typical, Holier Than Thou, attitude.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
      Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
      Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #330048
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,604

      What does this one mean?  Is it part of some institutionalized effort to make people feel bad?  What about words like big, or small?  What if you are overweight or born without the advantage of height?  You know, like being fat and short?  Aw shit, he said it.  “Master bedroom”, most of us know, refers to the largest bedroom in the house.  It is not meant to imply that those who are sleeping in the other bedrooms are slaves.  Does the word Master generally refer to a male?  Yes – is that offensive?  Should we call it the Mistress bedroom?  Sounds kinky.

      Words have power – but the context in which they are used matters.  This is not a word being used to apply to a person, for example, to make them feel bad.  It is a word.  Let me try it this way: there is a difference between saying something about a person and saying something about a bedroom.  Apprenticeships, for example, tend to have masters and apprentices.  Is apprentice a demeaning word?  Should we ban it?  Perhaps we could call them “aspiring professionals” or something?  But then, wouldn’t it be insulting to call them aspiring?  Does it imply that they are not professional?  Quick, someone ask the word police.

      As everyone here is familiar with – there are words that ARE used with the intention of being racist, to make others feel bad because of their race, weight, height, what have you.  Some of these words have different contexts in which they can be used – others do not.  Some words should not be used in polite settings – as this is an online forum in which use of random vulgarity (quite often by me) is very common, I think this whole fucking debate is stupid, but, I’m killing time at the moment, so…

      What other words and terms would you want banned?  Fat, maybe?  What if someone is talking about meat and the fatty part?  Ass?  How about shit, or fuck, or dick?  Pussy, cock, man, woman.  God damn.  They are words.  In this case, everyone knows what these words mean – and they do not mean what you are implying they mean.

    • #330052
      game meat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,239

      Understand that there is a trade off here. While our language may glorify testicles, it also denigrates and demonizes the penis. From dickheads to weenies, the seething contempt is undeniable. So you can have balls, but you’re a dick. Fair is fair.

      There is also the implication of risk inherent in the context of most balls related language. For instance, if one were to “put their balls on the line” or “put their balls on the table,” the message is clear: balls are vulnerable and more susceptible to harm than other body parts, so by exposing something so weak and fragile to danger requires a commendable degree of confidence in the face of adversity.

      So, I’ll probably use “balls” from time to time, but I will try not to be a dick about it!

      And yes, I’m giving this issue exactly the serious consideration it deserves.

       

    • #330053
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,604

      If we aren’t willing to stand up for our balls, we are being fucking pussies.

    • #330059
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,604

      Not trying to be a little bitch about it or anything.

    • #330066
      beeninthewoods
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      • Total Posts: 95
    • #330072
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,604

      I find the issue of whether to call a room the master bedroom or primary bedroom to be rather insignificant.  I also, for quite some time, engaged on a forum that was basically a no holds barred gender war.  I learned a lot there about what people say – and what people think and feel.  I try to be more or less honest about what I think or feel, saves time.  None of this is intended to insult you – or mock you personally, it is to mock what I see as ridiculous virtue signaling from this realtor group.  Now I don’t see it as an issue – perhaps you do, perhaps it is something that you take very seriously, if that is the case, we disagree.

      I have used most of the words in the English language at one point or another – and read them all.  You wouldn’t believe the ridiculous stuff I’ve read for days end – kind of a bibliophile – and believe me – where I live, a lot of people would totally misunderstand that word.

      So, let me ask you then – if you would expect this from a red state/site/whatever – does this mean that all of those on the left must conform to a specific, uniform set of ideas?  Would that not make those calling the shots the masters?

      • #330088
        retired liberal
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,700

        @davidthegnome

        “So, let me ask you then – if you would expect this from a red state/site/whatever – does this mean that all of those on the left must conform to a specific, uniform set of ideas? Would that not make those calling the shots the masters?”

        That would most definitely make them Masters. As they are telling us serfs what words they want us to use.
        The English language is a conglomeration of something like 7 other languages. Even those are derived from combinations of even older languages.
        It is not unusual for similar words to be derived from different languages. Similar as in spelling, or pronunciation, or meaning.
        What of words like “history”? Is it sexist? It contains the word “his”. And on top of that it is mostly men who write it.

        We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
        If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
        Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
        Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #330073
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,520

      They gave me a master’s degree in public administration. I’m looking forward to the letter notifying me I have a Better Than The First One But Not Quite The Highest One Degree. Of course, the regular four year degree can no no longer be called a bachelor’s degree because that is not a gender-neutral term. Maybe they can name them like blender settings: Low, Medium & High. Although I would favor Chop, Blend & Puree.

    • #330080
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,604

      @yanath

      I did probably have too much coffee today, too.  Some times I find really juvenile stuff to be hilarious.  I grew up in the 90s, you know?

      Anyhow, I do apologize for going overboard in my snark.  Not trying to hurt anyone’s feelings.  I do find this topic ridiculous, but I don’t have to act so… adolescent/impulse control issues.  I think that is covered under bipolar 2 (light) mania.  I should really get a certificate for that shit.

    • #330100
      Gryneos
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 939

      ‘Master’ and ‘slave’: Tech terms face scrutiny amid anti-racism efforts

      During Black Lives Matter protests, a movement grows to update terms used with hard drives, camera flashes and databases.

      Stephen Shankland June 10, 2020 5:00 a.m. PT

      Apple, Google, Microsoft and other Big Tech companies have stepped up their comments on the need for racial justice amid the Black Lives Matter protests that have gripped the US for the past two weeks. Now, a growing group of technologists say the language of the industry itself needs to change in order to fight racism.

      The terms “master” and “slave,” used to describe the relationships between two computer hard drives and or between two camera flashes, have come under scrutiny because of their association with America’s history of slavery. Similarly, “whitelist” and “blacklist,” terms for allowing and denying access to a service, are being revisited because of their potentially racial overtones.

      “I refuse to use ‘whitelist’/’blacklist’ or ‘master’/’slave’ terminology for computers. Join me. Words matter,” tweeted Leah Culver, co-founder of the Breaker podcast app and a co-author of the widely used OAuth signon technology. More than 16,000 people liked her tweet.

      Photographer Theresa Bear expressed a similar sentiment on the PetaPixel photo site, writing that it’s time to “make way for our black community” by banishing the use of “master” and “slave” to refer to how flashes are controlled. “Can you imagine being on set with a black human and the photographer yells to the assistant, ‘Hey, can you put it on slave mode?'” Bear asked.
      (more at linked headline)

      Although I must say that I hate CNet’s page layout. Two paragraphs, and then an ad or self-promo, and repeat.

      Who are you? | What do you want? | Why are you here? | Where are you going? | Do you have anything worth living for? | Who do you serve and who do you trust?

      • #330111
        retired liberal
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,700

        Movies? They still exists.

        We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
        If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
        Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
        Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

        • #330115
          Gryneos
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 939

          @retiredliberal

          Color doesn’t automatically assume race, but I guess for some people, the colors of black and white only mean race. I don’t know the origins, but would assume that with regard to black magick and white magick that they weren’t ever talking about white people and black people who use magick.

          Who are you? | What do you want? | Why are you here? | Where are you going? | Do you have anything worth living for? | Who do you serve and who do you trust?

      • #330112
        game meat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,239

        Can you imagine being on set with a black human and the photographer yells to the assistant, ‘Hey, can you put it on slave mode?’” Bear asked.

        Yes, I can imagine that because my mind probably wouldn’t go there that context.

        Otoh, if your first instinct is to think of the black guy in the room when the word slave is used for any reason whatsoever, then the issue is that this makes YOU uncomfortable psychologically and you’re projecting YOUR perception of the situation onto him.

        This hypothetical “black human” is probably sane and just thinks you are just using a common photography term, and can’t quite understand why you seem so nervous. 🙂

        A lot of pc stuff is like that and  often comes from these weird insecurities and hangups, often revealing more about the person who dreamed up the idea that a certain thing is offensive than it reveals about the thing itself.

        • #330117
          Gryneos
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 939

          @gamemeat

          As has been mentioned already, context is everything. At this rate, we should expect to see an attack on the use of the title “Mr./Mister” too.

          mister
          as a conventional title of courtesy before a man’s Christian name, mid-15c., unaccented variant of master (n.), but without its meaning. As a form of address when the man’s name is unknown (often with a tinge of rudeness), from 1760.

          The disappearance of master and mister, and the restricted and obsolescent use of sir, as an unaccompanied term of address, and the like facts with regard to mistressMrs., and madam, tend to deprive the English language of polite terms of address to strangers. Sir and madam or ma’am as direct terms of address are old-fashioned and obsolescent in ordinary speech, and mister and lady in this use are confined almost entirely to the lower classes. [Century Dictionary, 1895]

          Who are you? | What do you want? | Why are you here? | Where are you going? | Do you have anything worth living for? | Who do you serve and who do you trust?

    • #330123
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 835

      It surprised me when I first heard the agent use it and I had to ask what it meant. Yeah, it may have been common for realtor speak especially for McMansion sales but with average middle class house sales you rarely heard it up until the late 1990s.

      It’s a weird and kind of stupid word. It sounds both pretentious and insulting. There were no “masters” in any of the 5 houses we lived in. So would we be allowed to sleep in the room?And most middle class people never owned slaves before the civil war, so it’s illogical too. It’s realtor speak that sounds ignorant outside the industry.

      I’m glad it is going to be dumped.

    • #330150
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,042

      Black and white tv is not in color. It is in black and white. The same goes for black and white movies.

      Off topic but I am reminded of a heartwarming story from my past nontheless:

      Many decades ago, we had the first color tv in our neighborhood. I do not recall if it was Saturday or Sunday evenings but every kid for blocks around us would cram into our livingroom.

      My mom would keep the kool-aid and popcorn coming. All those kids in one room made an incredible cacophony.

      The tv would be on, who knows what might have been on  but it was in black and white-we kids ignored it.

      Then the magic started: The NBC peacock came on and spread its tailfeathers IN COLOR!

      Every kid in the room quieted, transfixed on the TV while from the TV speaker it was announced that the following program was brought to us in living color.

      You could hear a pin drop in that room as Tinkerbell led us into the castle with splashes of color, Walt Disney himself came on to tell us of the upcomming show.

      Walt was alive back then, perhaps the most respected man on the planet in our young eyes.

      Those Disney shows, Scarecrow of Romney Marsh….Daniel Boone or was it Davey Crockett, both those Fess Parker characters were my favorites for sure.

      My God those were the innocent times.

      I know there is the common addage that goes something like ‘times were better when we were kids’ but if you think about it….

      ….how on earth can kids these days feel that same magic we felt….fixated on their dang smart-phones?

    • #330159
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,134

      I have more important things to worry about.

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