Okay Boomers, Wake UP!: Sanders is the person you used to be but forgot about

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    • #242934
      leftcoast mountains
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,006

      December 22, 2019

      Dave Lindorff

      I keep reading that polls show young people – the so-called Millennial Generation aged 23-38- are overwhelmingly backing Bernie Sanders in the race for the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination (along with even younger voters) while the so-called Baby Boom Generation of people now aged roughly 55 to 75 are going for Joe Biden, Mike Bloomberg or some other ossified mainstream Democratic pol.

      Speaking as a 70-year-old Baby Boomer myself, and increasingly an admirer of Sanders, I gotta ask: OK Boomers, what’s happened to you?

      Think back: What were you doing back in the late 1960s when you were in your teens or early 20s as the Civil Rights Movement was finally winning the right to vote for Black people, when the Vietnam War was raging and classmates of yours were coming home in body bags? Where were you when President Nixon in 1970 urged Ohio Republican Governor James Rhodes to send the Ohio National Guard onto the Kent State Campus to put down a student protest against his illegal invasion of Cambodia, expanding an ugly war to yet another country, and the “heroic” guardsmen shot and killed four unarmed students? Where were you when we were all shattering the walls of prudery, experimenting with sex, the mind-freeing wonders of marijuana and yes, even LSD? Where were you as women and their male supporters suddenly stood tall and said that just having the vote wasn’t enough; they demanded equality with men on the job, in the home, in politics and in their relationships?

      We Boomers have been maligned in the media and by politicians since back when we were wearing bell-bottom jeans and sandals, when women were putting flowers in their usually long or frizzed-out hair, and when any guy with the slightest facial hair grew a beard or at least a mustache (lately, the attackks are that we’re keeping jobs from young people by not retiring, or that we’re hurting our children’s retirement future by opposing any cuts in our own benefits!) More importantly we were marching against war, against nuclear weapons and arms spending, and condemning the empty consumerism of our parents. In obtaining our attire from thrift stores and traveling the roads by thumb, we were challenging the premise of capitalism itself, saying that it wasn’t the trendiness of what you owned that defined you, it was what you stood for.

      https://www.opednews.com/articles/1/Sanders-is-the-person-you-by-Dave-Lindorff-2020-Elections_Bernie-Sanders_Bernie-Sanders-Presidential-Campaign_Bernie-Sanders-Supporter-191222-80.html

       

      Thought I should add I’m a Boomer also, 1952.

       

      #DestroyDems

    • #242939
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,896

      Well, I have been for Bernie since 2016, and I am a Boomer, but now I guess I need to reevaluate, because everyone tells me I am for Biden.   Hate to disappoint, ya know!  And I am certainly not going to take condescending and insulting and off-target by miles advice from anyone so fucking stupid that they assume all boomers – except themselves, of course – think the same.  This is just grandstanding, at this point.  In fact, it is so stupid that Trump might be bank-rolling it.

    • #242944
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,599

       The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.

      Friedrich Nietzsche

      I’m a pre-boomer born in 1944.

      In the late 60s I was a student who worked for a living and on the GI bill.   I protested for civil rights and against war.  I did burn my draft card in public, got chased around campus by cops but was light on my feet and escaped the beatings or arrests some my comrades got.  I watched a lot of Nixon’s Watergate investigation and danced in the aisles of post office I worked at when he resigned

      It just seemed the right thing to do at the time.

      I’m a bit to old to outrun the cops and never was much of a dancer but I’ll manage a few gleeful steps when Trump is removed or loses in 2020.

       

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #242952
      MistaP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,554
    • #242964
      Pam2
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,349

      Some Boomers were on the left and stayed on the left. Some were on the right and stayed on the right. I don’t buy the myth that everyone that used to be left went right. Maybe a relatively small number of people. Anyway, Bernie has supporters of all ages, now and in 2016, but the media would rather push other narratives.

       

       

       

    • #242979
      Bernie 4 2020
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,393

      There are 2 boomers here, and have strongly supported Bernie since 2015.

       

      You talk about the chosen one?  This guy is it!!!!

      I'm done, It's over for now. It was nice meeting all the cool people here.

    • #242982
      LiberalElite
      Member
      • Total Posts: 1,443

      I was for Bernie before it was cool, so there.

      Signed,

      69 y.o. and counting

      I feel much better since I gave up hope.

      "If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there’d be peace." – John Lennon

    • #242999
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,161

      Don’t fall for the narratives. In the first place the 60s generation left was a highly vocal minority – an unusually large minority, but a minority. Most of us (I’m 62) were apolitical, at least until the draft made it personal. Also, most people’s political/moral/social opinions solidify in our twenties – were a left, stay a left, and those who change change both ways – though later circumstances intensify opinions. We also seem to have forgotten how badly we “hippies” were looked upon by our right wing and even our apolitical peers.

      And about those “later circumstances” – cue Ronald Reagan. Actually I’ll start with Daniel Patrick Moynahan. In 1982 he had a Brilliant Idea, it might have been practical (the generations following the baby boom simply weren’t numerically large enough and with Reagan’s attacking unions would not have the income) to pay for their fathers’ retirement, as Social Security was designed to do, or it might have been political (thinking that Reagan would be blamed) but either way doubling the FICA tax was a harebrained scheme. It harmed young people just entering the workforce, eventually proving to be fatally, while breaking the contract of Social Security. Combine that with Reagan’s “tax cuts” (which were actually the largest increases in history) and Boomer rightists fell to greed and scapegoatism, fueled by Reagan’s lying. Many of the apolitical took it personally and followed suit. Thus was created the greediest, most entitled generation in history. (it was actually just Mark Blyth’s “20%” – probably more like 10%, but with a lot of “temporarily inconvenienced millionaires”)

      We didn’t all become criminally rapacious, racist, sexist hypocrites, a social/political climate change that manifested itself beginning in the mid 60s, dominated in the 80s and is now swamping us. But this will pass. Millennials – our grandchildren – are like we were in the 60s. Their fights, their moral/social/political issues might be different (since they have no draft) but they might not be a minority.

    • #243045
      eridani
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,534

      I plead guilty to not following politics much, as I had to keep up with scientific information in my field.  Since retirement I have been spending most of my time on activism, from local to national politics.

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

    • #243061
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 774

      That may be asking a bit too much of the boomers. Once

      one gets older and raised a family, security and stability

      become the issues of interest. Naturally as with all generalizations

      it does not apply to all boomers. The problem is that we need

      change desperately and are in no way ready for it.

       

    • #243092
      The Red Menace
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,080

      Okay so once again, for those of you with hearing aids;

      When speaking of cultural trends, it is already assumed that there are of course individual exceptions to the trend. Further, that such individuals can be pointed out as exceptions proves the general trend; the exceptions stand out expressly because the overall trend is true. Time does not need to be taken out to entertain each and every individual such exception, because that would simply bog everyone down to talk about what’s already granted. doing so is an obfuscatory tactic meant expressly to stifle discussion of the cultural trend.

      There, have we got that settled? Congratulations on being “different,” you’re a statistical anomaly within a self-selected group, have a cookie.

      The question, “what happened to boomers” begins with the assumption that the boomer generation was ever, in any majority, inclined towards anything other than political apathy or reactionism. Even the ones who did defy this trend and move leftward were hobbled by the culture they were raised in and access to materials and communication. when every little group has to reinvent the wheel and mostly their starting point is their parents telling them wheels are evil? You’re gonna get some ineffective ides out of that. Hell the most prevalent idea was that if everyone stopped participating in the system, the system itself would grind to a halt. YIKES. But like I said, it’s what most of them had to work with, so I can’t fault too hard.

      The better question is, why’d they stop giving a fuck? because… they obviously did. and I think it’s because in all honesty? Boomers have never known real hardship (see the note on trends above) the 50’s, 60’s, and 70’s are not known for being “tough times” by any measure. for the most part Baby Boomers were white and from middle class backgrounds – or even working class, but back when “working class” was a functional, healthy part of society and not just a polite way of saying “the poors.” Their biggest “threat” was the draft… and when that went away in 1973, their politics progressed in the way you’d expect from most eminently comfortable white people.

      • #243138
        game meat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,216

        Boomers are not a self-selected group. You can’t join the Boomers. They have no unifying agenda. They’re just a social category like men, women, white people, black people etc. In general stereotyping social categories is frowned upon, not just out of a conviction to reject bigotry, but because they are rarely accurate enough to be worth considering.

        Attempting to attribute all of these characteristics to such a massive number of people who have little in common with each other aside from age is illogical, and I’m not sure why so many are so insistent on trying.

        When there are enough exceptions to a rule, it kind of ceases to be a rule.  The idea that this general cultural trend is something self-evident that can not be questioned, and doing so is an obfuscatory tactic meant to stifle discussion is a comical bit of projection and sophistry.

         

    • #243115
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,896

      Ahhh!  The seriously rank smell of someone with a hate on presenting opinions as facts, in the morning!

      One does wonder – what is the point?  On a political board?  Attempting to drive BOOMERS away from the board?  Away from Bernie?  Just pointless ranting for the pleasure of ranting??   Setting up BOOMERS for a Democratic Party loss?  Just sorta musing here, I don’t actually give a flying fuck about your opinion on anything at all.  Not relevant, really.  Gosh, maybe YOU are an anomaly!  But maybe you should see someone about the illogical hate and weirdness of assigning anything at all to a wildly disparate group of people lumped together arbitrarily by year of birth for statistical purposes.    No one is taking you seriously or taking your ranting to heart.  Just getting bizarre now!  And again, what is your point, aside from presenting opinions as facts?

      Oh, and we all can read (and likely hear) just fine, thanks for the condescending crap!  Not all of us buying your rant does not mean we need hearing aids.  We do not all agree with you, that’s all.  Happens in life, and you should get used to it or learn how to handle it or something.  No matter what your angle is.

    • #243127
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,350

      @twilightsporkle

      Yeah, dude, that’s pretty nasty.  No doubt you have your reasons for feeling as strongly as you do.  I just think you’re angry at the wrong people.

      Most people of that generation do what most everyone else does.  They try to get by, day after day, in this mad world that is slowly coming apart.  Some try to make a difference if they can, but most, like any other generation, are just trying to survive.

      I know a lot of baby boomers – and very, very few of them are like you describe.  They were just as screwed by the politicians and the oligarchy as anyone else.  Lost the good jobs, the unions, retirement, pensions.

      Most will not be able to retire in anything even resembling luxury.  You speak as if that generation, specifically, is responsible for everything.  They arent.

      • #243224
        The Red Menace
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,080

        @davidthegnome,

        What did I say that was “nasty”?

        That boomers are mostly politically apathetic? I mean… that’s true. Most people are politically apathetic. But we’re talkign about Boomers in htis thread, and specifically the habit Boomers have of acting like they “led the movement,” when most of them just sat at home watching “All In The Family” and eating awful TV dinners with their parents.

        That the exceptions to that apathy had limited resources to work with? Sorry, again that’s true – politics in the 60’s had a very constricted overton window. Leftist theory and resources were tightly restricted away from young people as much as their parents could manage. Each individual group of young boomers who tried to get something started had to build it from the ground up, usually without meaningful contact or interaction from others trying the same. That’s just the world they lived in, and like I said, I offer no blame for that.

        That the most prevalent political theory was the idea that if you stopped participating in the system, the system would stop? Really? ‘Cause that was a hugely popular motto at the time. “Turn on, tune in, drop out” (maybe let’s not take political theory from a CIA asset? Oh well, way too late now)

        That boomers lived in a time that was the peak of prosperity in our nation’s history, and had no real hardship? Oh gosh, sorry, but again, that’s a fucking fact. You could get a decent job out of high school, raise a family and own a home on its wage, and still have enough left to save. Their big peril was the draft, and that stopped in ’73 (though I keep seeing Boomers wanting  to bring it back, now that it’s not their ass, but hey, another discussion.)

        That boomers are majority-white? Again, plain fact, ours is the first generation where whites became a plurality rather than a majority. And sorry chief, white people do have their own set of political and cultural trends in this country and the baby boomers didn’t deviate from ’em to any significant amount.

        Maybe it was my mention of hearing aids before I explained that exceptions are already assumed when talking about cultural trends? Obviously it was needed. Am I expecting too much for people on JPR to have a grasp of basics in sociology, or what? Once again, for the people in the back still listening to Strawberry Alarm Clock in 2019: ANY DISCUSSION OF CULTURE, POLITICS, OR SOCIETY IS GOING TO BE SPEAKING OF TRENDS OVER THE GROUP AS A WHOLE. OBVIOUSLY NOt EVERY INDIVIDUAL IN A GROUP ABSOLUTELY CONFORMS TO EVERY TREND EXPRESSED BY THE GROUP, THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS TO EVERYTHING. THIS IS PRE-PACKAGED INTO THE DISCUSSION. IT IS ALREADY UNDERSTOOD. WE. FUCKING. KNOW. THERE DOES NOT NEED TO BE HOURS AND HOURS TAKEN OUT OF THE DISCUSSION TO EXPAND ON EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO BUCKS THE TREND.

        Weird how everyone here grasps this principle on literally every other subject.

    • #243139
      mindpilot
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 368

      Millennials don’t exist. Adam Conover of TruTv’s Adam Ruins Everything ruins generational divides:

       

      Slavery was the legal fiction that people can be property.
      Corporatism is the legal fiction that property can be people.

      "If you believe in god, I'm probably smarter than you." -- Tom Leykis

    • #243145
      ravensong
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,071

      I’m a boomer, and I accept responsibility for the failure of my generation to prevent the destruction of the planet and the rise of the current authoritarian fascist Trump government of the US and fascist governments of many US states.  My boomer generation nominated Hillary Clinton, and elected Donald Trump.

      Ugh.  Ouch.

      I humbly apologize to the Millennial generation and Gen Z.  So sincerely very sorry.  My heart breaks.  No excuses, I failed to protect you.

      I will do my best with whatever time I have left to help you do whatever you think is best to stop the fascist madness that is destroying our country and planet, and recognize your wisdom in supporting Bernie Sanders and leaders like AOC as a possible avenue for beginning the end of the fascist insanity that will inevitably destroy our planet, and permanently prevent democracy, if we do not reverse course and elect a leader for our country who understands, and will do what needs to be done, to begin to reverse the grave damage that has been to our nation and planet by greedy fascist wealthy private interests, and their servants in positions of legal authority.

      Bernie 2020

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

      • #243152
        MizzGrizz
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,841

        Ravensong,I’m with you.Former Boomer here,born 1955,but got an acrimonious divorce from my peers in the 2016 election.

        Maybe many of you don’t know the type of Boomer Lindorff describes,but trust me,they are there.I am a refugee from a political board and a Facebook political discussion page that was crawling with them.

        They’re still patting themselves on the back for what they did and were in the sixties,but look at the leaders this generation elected.Instead of looking for leaders of the caliber they originally followed—King,the Kennedys,Malcolm,Hampton,Lennon,McGovern—they rallied behind Reagan’s banner and voted in droves for his clones.Look at our Boomer presidents—Bill,George,Obama,Trump.Would you give a plug nickel for any of them?

        The funny thing is,a lot of the boomers themselves were victims of the economic policies they support—downsizing,etc.—but they cling all the more fiercely to them.

        • #243175
          ravensong
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,071

          I spent much of the late 70’s and first half of the 80’s in the woods.  When I was forced back out into what some people call “civilization”, it was a mind blowing Rude Awakening

          “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

          The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
          ~ Unknown

          • #243184
            MizzGrizz
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,841

            Ravensong,I spent the seventies and eighties as a recluse,living with my parents while working on a writing career.That set of circumstances alone put me on a different life trajectory than my peers and made it hard for me to understand their priorities,or they mine.I am grateful for that seclusion,it gave me the gift of emotional independence.

            It seems,to me at least, that many boomers don’t have that gift—they would rather follow.Unquestioningly.There isn’t a lot of difference between the Democratic Party of today and the crazy cults like Sun Myung Moon’s and Hare Krishna that swallowed up boomers in droves.

    • #243203
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 13,627

      They call me a boomer, but in the late 60s I was in elementary school. I was in high school when Nixon resigned, and the draft was canceled years before I would have had to register for it. The world was a very different place when I came of age than it was for my older cousins.

      Sometimes I wonder if the boomer generation is too big, its duration too long. If one graduated high school in 1976, one’s prospects were markedly different from another who graduated in 1964 or even 1970. Personally, I don’t think anyone who came of age before the oil embargo of 1973 has the same outlook of those who did earlier simply because that one event changed the world forever.

      All that said, I still believe in the same things now that I did in 1979, and I certainly never fell for the Reaganomics lie that so many of my older cousins, who were antiwar until draft the stopped, became. That’s just anecdotal; I really do mean blood relatives.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #243213
      sonofspy777
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,095

      Some of us never changed.

      Actually (and fortunately for my conscience) I’ve done everything I could fucking think of to advance

      progressive values in any State I’ve lived in and in the world at large.

       

      Collectively however no matter what has happened/not happened since 1969, a large

      majority of Boomers can say a resounding fuck you to the establishment.

      WE were right 50 years ago and we’re going to rub your noses in  it.

      Bernie figured he could do more good ALIVE,
      than dead in a small plane "accident".
      I think he's right.

      Don't you?

    • #243229
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,020

       

       

      I believe I will use this space to reminisce about myself more than anything else. I will try my best to stay on point.

      As a boomer and speaking strictly for myself, time has not taken most of my values out of me.

      My feelings on equality, my feelings against war and my feelings against the establishment have not changed.

      I believed we should all be equal, I did not like war, I did not think that the “establishment” had my better interest in mind.

      I suppose my feelings towords “the man” (the police) have changed.

      As a white guy, I am well aware of the breaks I get…breaks I get now that I once did not get as a teen, breaks I get for being white that others do not get.

      This does not today fit in with my notions of equality.

      Nor do my notions of equality fit in with how I see the racial breakdowns in our prison industrial complex.

      I suppose, had I been aware back in the late 60’s/early ’70s of these racial inequalities within our legal system, I would have been as outraged against them back then as I am currently.

      I simply was unaware of them back then.

      Thinking back, my strongest outrage against our legal system dealt more with what it could do to you for a little pot…or even a simple pot seed found in the lint of your jeans pocket!

      It was all soooo damned arbitrary! In one state you might get let off with a night in jail, (as I did for about half an ounce in Washington State), in other states you might (or so we heard) wind up with a month or more jail time for a single roach!

      Not every white male boomer felt like I did back then. Some of them supported the war, some thought that the peace sign was the symbol of the devil!

      Not every one of us were white males who smoked pot and listened to rock or acid rock music…and obviously not every one of us were white.

      But even among that particular white male co-hort, many of us held our own views about the war. Some knew the political ins and outs regarding the war, I had no clue but chose to go because I heard there were good drugs to be had “over there”.

      (FWIW, fate had other plans for me so I ended up in Germany instead of Nam).

      As I am trying to point out here, in my case my views, my ethics and my morals have in some areas changed through time but mostly they are the same ones I had deep down inside me.

      Furthermore there is a great diversity as to what constitutes a boomer. Mine was hardly the unique experience, we were not all white males nor did we all think alike.

      I confess to being attracted to those who thought like me. If you smoked pot, we were cool with each other.

      We could debate music but politics…meh…I would rather do that thing where the girl put the lit joint in her mouth backwards and blew smoke into mine…and then I returned the favor. (remember that fellow boomers?)

      I can only speak for myself, my wisdoms have changed but most of my values have not changed. I do talk about politics more, I think that we all do.

      I have little doubt, given the facts I currently have access to, my teen age self would be right there with me honoring my current values, morales and ethics.

      Oh to be that teen again….well maybe not. I’d probably be cold and hungry living on freinds’s couches with no hope outside of joining the military service…oh wait a minute, that was who, where and exactly what I was at 18!

      Lastly, Senator Sanders first came on my radar during the Bush Presidency.

      He would make the occasional appearance on The Thom Hartmann show.

      This would have been well before Thom had the good Senator on for his weekly Brunch with Bernie hour.

      I knew back then that Bernie Sanders’s values were my values. They pretty much still are.

       

       

      • #243307
        incognito
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,693

        @chknltl

        Great post!

        Back in the 1990s, early 2000s, I watched CSPAN 1, 2 & 3 pretty much 24/7 (or when I could on days off 😉). I knew every Senator and what State they were from and I knew  almost every Representative and their states too. I knew the bills going up for votes and when I needed to get active to influence my Senators and Reps. I have lived politics for a long long time. Which brings me to the 2016 election and one of my proudest moments as a parent to a millennial.

        Bernie had just announced, in 2015, he would be running for president. A week later my son told me he was supporting Bernie for President!!! I told him I was surprised he even knew who Bernie is and he said, “I remember he was all you talked about at the dinner table when I was little and how he should be our president!” He was born in 1993. I was truly shocked that he remembered my Bernie love rants and even more PROUD he took it all to heart, remembered it and acted on it! As parents, you always hope you lead your kids in the right (correct) direction and instill solid values and morals… then hold your breath and hope for the best. Not only has he never thrown this “Boomers destroyed the world” bullshit at me, I know he never would because he knows who I am and how involved in politics I have been since he was born. It’s all he knows. The truth. Not this divide and conquer special ops bullshit infiltrating current politics and JPR.

        And I don’t wear hearing aids. I’m just loving all the little insults tossed in with the blame game going on. Interesting times we live in. Very Brockian times….

    • #243234
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,896

      It is sad, to me, to read the heartfelt replies of Boomers in response to what is actually just deliberate shit-stirring.  To what end the shit is being stirred is a mystery, because it is pointless.  Another version of Whinging Hillary excuses being laid down  if/when the DNC fails again?  Oh well.  Granted, some of the OK-Boomer bashing is quite enlightening.  The folks doing it, I mean.  Interesting!  But non-productive as fuck, for sure.

    • #243236
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,350

      @twilightsporkle

      “That boomers lived in a time that was the peak of prosperity in our nation’s history, and had no real hardship? Oh gosh, sorry, but again, that’s a fucking fact. You could get a decent job out of high school, raise a family and own a home on its wage, and still have enough left to save. Their big peril was the draft, and that stopped in ’73 (though I keep seeing Boomers wanting  to bring it back, now that it’s not their ass, but hey, another discussion.)”

      Is it?  A fucking fact, I mean?  What are you basing this assertion on?  Are we speaking of statistics?  It may be true that the wealth inequality was not as terrible as it is today – but it was sure as hell there.  A decent job out of high school, raise a family – and own a home on its wage and still have enough left to save?  You know, that may have been true for a lot of white people – and, granted, white people had certain privileges.  You know what was never any different, or, if anything, was worse?  How about we start with mental health and treatment?  How many millions, at the time, who had no idea what the fuck was wrong with them, started to experience things like depression and anxiety?  How many couldn’t function in those normal, peachy economic circumstances because of it?  How many were never even taught how to read?  How many had great parents and ideal circumstances?  Not a whole fucking lot – not then – and not now.  Maybe you think I’m speaking of a handful – no, I’m talking about millions.  Like the tens of millions that suffer from the same, today.  No real hardship?

      You think that you are speaking in general terms – terms that, from what you say, you apply to a majority of boomers – and, dude, I get it, you know?  I totally get that you are not speaking of absolutely every boomer – and I know this will come as a huge shock… but, I still disagree with what you say.  There was no golden age in which people could easily earn enough for everything you speak of – some did – but not the overwhelming majority.  It sure as hell wasn’t 50s or 60s.  Yes, there was an economic boom in those days, but plenty of people still had no better jobs than beheading chickens and ripping out their guts in some factory, for shit pay, with little or no benefits.  Not everyone worked for a good factory, or mill, or had a union position – in fact, not a whole hell of a lot did.  Labor compensation, benefits overall… all of it?  Still sucked.

      Poverty doesn’t change much, regardless of the generation, the decade, the year.  It was just as much of an issue back then – though it is likely that the statistics regarding it were less well known.  It is true that white people had privileges and advantages that they took for granted.  It is not true that all of them did – and whether or not the majority did is a question we can ask, but not really answer.

      “Am I expecting too much for people on JPR to have a grasp of basics in sociology, or what? ”

      Nope.  You are, however, expecting people to interpret some facts (and lets just say that a lot of those facts aren’t really facts – not without strong supporting statistics) as you do.

      From my limited education in sociology – I didn’t have the money for a longer term one… I believe it has (or at least should have) more to do with understanding and empathy than with facts.  The way you talk about this gives the impression that you are condescending – and not just to boomers, but to anyone who disagrees with you.  You assert that they do not even understand your argument because, well, they just can’t see your brilliant logic, or something.

      “ANY DISCUSSION OF CULTURE, POLITICS, OR SOCIETY IS GOING TO BE SPEAKING OF TRENDS OVER THE GROUP AS A WHOLE. OBVIOUSLY NOt EVERY INDIVIDUAL IN A GROUP ABSOLUTELY CONFORMS TO EVERY TREND EXPRESSED BY THE GROUP, THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS TO EVERYTHING. THIS IS PRE-PACKAGED INTO THE DISCUSSION. IT IS ALREADY UNDERSTOOD. WE. FUCKING. KNOW. THERE DOES NOT NEED TO BE HOURS AND HOURS TAKEN OUT OF THE DISCUSSION TO EXPAND ON EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL WHO BUCKS THE TREND.

      No, dude.  We get it.  You are speaking of the majority and not the entirety – and you are still fucking wrong.

      • #243244
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,896

        @davidthegnome

        You nailed it.  And – gotta wonder if there is any intent besides idle repetitive shit-stirring.

        • #243253
          The Red Menace
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,080

          @djean111,

          So what’s your take on the question posed by the article, “what happened to boomers”, then? ‘Cause you’ve said a lot of words at me, but not too much on the topic at hand.

          • #243283
            djean111
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 3,896

            @twilightsporkle

            My take on the article is that it is gibberish and being used to stir up posters on this board.  You have got plenty of feedback, which you dismiss as anomalies.  You really want what?  Agreement?  You are not getting it, and to dismiss that as some sort of failure to appreciate your brilliance is getting pretty amusing, at this point.  You don’t want discussion, you want agreement.  And to what end – who knows.  Might I suggest Reddit?  Always a group there to agree with anything!

            • #243356
              The Red Menace
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 1,080

              @djean111

              Yeah, my bad, I saw you had actually posted an opinion. Specifically that you think Donald Trump personally funded this article. And now that you think Left Coast Mountains is using this (apparently) Trump-funded article to “stir shit” on JPR (with my help, of course.) That’s… pretty outlandish, actually. Also it’s pretty amazing that you accuse me of wanting everyone to agree with me, while dismissing any opinion you dislike as ‘gibberish” and “shit-stirring,” and spending four posts personally attacking someone for having an opinion you dislike.

              I don’t even know why you’re so mad. because I called you an anomaly? YOU ARE! I mean Jesus Christ dude Boomers have spent fifty years obsessing over themselves, giving an endless examination of boomer trends in culture, politics, music, religion, all that shit. And if you fall outside those trends – as you insist that you do – then yes, you are an anomaly. A statistical outlier. And as a person posting on a left-leaning / progressive discussion board, you’re part of a self selected community of such outliers. I am agreeing with you that you are exactly what you say you are and that’s got you all riled up.

              I honestly see no reason to get so fucking steamed at that. It’s coming across that you’re just mad for the sake of being mad.

              • #243392
                djean111
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 3,896

                @twilightsporkle

                Oh, the conflation and hyperbole is strong with you, innit.    Actually, at this point, I am just bemused.  Not “riled up”.  You are using those terms to marginalize.   You do not want a discussion or conversation,  it is not clear what you want, really.  But you are not worth my anger, I can tell you that.  Just curious at this point about what you are trying to do.  Bemused.   I get angry over important things, not posts on boards.  Sorry!

      • #243249
        The Red Menace
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,080

        @davidthegnome,


        @davidthegnome
        ,

        You assert that they do not even understand your argument because, well, they just can’t see your brilliant logic, or something.

        We get it.  You are speaking of the majority and not the entirety – and you are still fucking wrong.

        Sigh.

        No, David, you don’t get it. And it’s not about my “brilliant logic” or whatever, it has to do with understanding what a “trend” even is.

        Let’s say you’re collecting data on bamboo for whatever reason and you want to know how the height of your specimens correlates to their width. You would collect your specimens, measure them (in metric like a good bambooologist, which is now 100% a real word) and plot your data points out on a graph. And then you would fine the line that correlates the most closely to the most points of data you have as possible. There’s a whole system to doing this and i’ll be real honest I haven’t done it since 11th grade and i had a damn good calculator at the time sooo uhhhh. Anyway, you do that, and hte line you generate is the trend line, and it’ll look like this:

        As you can see, a majority of the data points do not actually touch the trend line; several do of course, but there’s plenty above and below it as well. Hell the majority are actually below the trend line, but those above it are far enough above it to pull the average up. Same too with the handful of strong outliers. The trend is, that tall bamboo is wide bamboo. It’s not universal, but it’s true enough. You could even use this data to determine a rough average height:diameter ratio for bamboo. Imperfect, but functional.

        And that’s what a trend is. it’s not a statement of universality. it’s not even a statement about majorities. It’s a statement about rough averages, compiled from a big speckled spattering of data points.

        So when you argue against it with “Yeah but not everyone!” as you’ve continued to do… yeah the response is going to be “no shit Sherlock.”

        Anyway, congratulations on your stifling of discussion of this topic you don’t want to hear or think about David.

    • #243279
      game meat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,216

      @twilightsporkle

      That’s just moving the goal posts, and quite far away from where you started.

      First, you claim any boomers who don’t fit in with the meme are “statistical anomalies,” or exceptions to the rule. Now, you’re arguing that the rule (which still isn’t based off of anything but silly media stereotypes, generational horoscopes, and internet memes) doesn’t even have to include the majority.And now, it isn’t even a rule at all, but a yet to be identified trend.

      Again, Boomers are a social category, not a specific group of people who have some sort of real connection to each other. It’s far too broad to mean anything on its own. It’s like saying women are… or men are…Generalizations of such a huge swath of the population who are connected in no other way but age are useless, and doomed to be inaccurate.

      If the discussion were focused only on 60s radicals and how they’ve since changed, that would be something else entirely.

    • #243292
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,350

      “So when you argue against it with “Yeah but not everyone!” as you’ve continued to do… yeah the response is going to be “no shit Sherlock.””

      “There, have we got that settled? Congratulations on being “different,” you’re a statistical anomaly within a self-selected group, have a cookie.”

      “And that’s what a trend is. it’s not a statement of universality. it’s not even a statement about majorities. It’s a statement about rough averages, compiled from a big speckled spattering of data points.”

      “That boomers lived in a time that was the peak of prosperity in our nation’s history, and had no real hardship? Oh gosh, sorry, but again, that’s a fucking fact.”

      Do you somehow just not get that you’re being condescending, or do you not care?  It is not going to help you get a point across.  If I respond, on occasion, in a similar manner, its because I am used to being condescended to by people (not you) who are very impressed with their own intelligence, cleverness (Again, not referring to you).  Hell, I didn’t only grow up with that, I’ve lived my whole life with it – and it was rarely the boomers that gave me shit about being poor, or fat, or not quite as educated as they were.  Nope, it was people who, much like me, lived with their parents, but had a job much better than I did, or worked more hours, or made more money, or whos parents were paying for their whole damn four year education.  There are a lot of “trends” that are discussed regarding “people like me” who live on disability, food stamps, or what have you.  There are statistical anomalies, there are facts – and then, there are individual opinions – and I can generally respect those – unless someone is using them to tear down a group – I am not saying that you are necessarily doing that – but it is something I am used to responding to.

      My argument isn’t “Yeah, but not everyone!” – its this: If you’re going to speak in generalizations, condescend to baby boomers (but, right, only those who followed the “trend”, do you give them all cookies?) and generally be extremely condescending – you are not going to get any point across.  Was there a lot of prosperity for a good number of people in the 60s?  Yep, absolutely.  Did they – I mean – did any of these groups actually not know hardship?  No.  People are people.  There aren’t just exceptions to the rules, if we’re being honest – there are barely any rules that make any fucking sense at all.  For example, the attempt to open’s one mind with the use of certain interesting substances back in the 60s trended for quite some time, particularly among young people.  However, protests against the Vietnam war, marching for civil rights – standing up to those who would forever put us only in the specific categories where they believed we belonged… those were trends, too.  You know what else is a trend?  Smoking.  You know what can’t be described as a trend?  Almost nothing.

      Yes, I know what a trend is, thanks.  Just got my hearing aid fixed.

      “Anyway, congratulations on your stifling of discussion of this topic you don’t want to hear or think about David.”

      I’m not trying to silence you – and I have no problem thinking about or talking about anything at all.  Have you not read any of my posts dude?  I post about the worst shit in my life that, believe me, it often sucks to write about.  I post about it because I LIKE discussion and thought.  Maybe you hit a nerve because I’m used to having very similar conversations about very different subjects – but the arguments used don’t really seem to change much.  I really fucking hate generalizations and stereotypes – but I realize that effective communication would be all but impossible without them.  So I try to tread softly when I use them.

      All of that having been said…

      The OP speaks quite a lot about generational differences – about who the boomers are or were, who they are or might be voting for.  I do not think (though perhaps I am wrong) that any of this conversation is off topic.  The generational divides, such as they are, are worth talking about – especially because, in my experience, we just do not talk to each other enough.  Especially out loud, in places and times when it would mean something.  Of course, some people probably do, could be a majority of people do, might be a minority, or it could just be a trend.  Sorry… couldn’t resist.

      Anyway, I believe that the radicals in the 60s discovered something really wonderful – and I’m not talking about sex, drugs and rock and roll – I’m talking about each other.  When we get together and utilize the fact that we are social creatures who always fare better when we work together to accomplish something – who always fare better when we treat each other with kindness and respect… it is a beautiful thing, to see (and hear) people sitting around talking to each other about things that matter.  We don’t see it terribly often today, especially not between generations.  As someone who has a variety of severe social and anxiety issues, I’m not good at going out and talking to people.  I’m not good in crowds, or even in a grocery store, or at a family Christmas party that I had to leave thanks to a panic attack.  Seeing me in that state (I shake, stammer, and some times repeat the same phrases over and over again) would have made people nervous – and possibly scared the kids.

      The masks that we wear for the sake of civilized society though… even our own friends and families… are probably not helping us any.  If we could be what we feel and say what we think, it would be a better world.  I think we need to love each other – and stop categorizing and generalizing and trying to stash everyone where they might fit most neatly.  Generation, ethnicity, sexuality, whatever.  What the fuck does it matter?  At the end of the day, people are people.

      Generation is something that means something – but it doesn’t mean very much.  I’m of the millennial generation – does that really tell you anything about me beyond my possible age?

      • #243369
        The Red Menace
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,080

        @davidthegnome,

        Do you somehow just not get that you’re being condescending, or do you not care?  It is not going to help you get a point across.  If I respond, on occasion, in a similar manner, its because I am used to being condescended to by people (not you) who are very impressed with their own intelligence, cleverness.

        We’re adults, and we’re on a forum dedicated to examination and discussion of political, cultural, and social issues. Correct? That being the case, I think it’s fair of me to assume that people would understand that all such discussions are going to rely heavily on general trends in culture, politics, and society. if they don’t understand that, and I have to explain it once or twice, fine, fair enough. Ten times though, I lose patience. i am not a schoolteacher and these are not other people’s ignorant children, I have no obligation to be patient.

        Especially when I know fully well that it is in fact completely understood. We talk about political parties and ideologies all the time here, and I’ve yet to see someone spend any time or energy gasping about #NotAllRepublicans, or filling my bandwidth with a story about their cousin Jimmy who’s an anarcho-Capitalist and totally isn’t like that, how dare you suggest that there are “trends” in those politics, argle bargle. No one does that. At all. because it’d be fucking stupid, right?

        But as soon as the discussion turns to the most-examined, most-discussed, most-recorded generational cohort in human history and the cultural trends within that cohort… all that understanding suddenly and selectively vanishes. In its place is outrage that someone would DARE engage a topic that’s been discussed for FIFTY FUCKING YEARS.

        I have no need to be patient with that.

        Generation is something that means something – but it doesn’t mean very much.  I’m of the millennial generation – does that really tell you anything about me beyond my possible age?

        Anything absolutely concrete? No. But some assumptions can be made that are most likely true. Such as, you’re probably very adept with use of the internet – but maybe a little clunky on some of the more recent directions of social media. odds are that you are much more politically aware and invested than the three prior generations tended to be (in part owing to your ease with the internet.) odds are your economic situation is not great and you probably do not own your own home or have your own business – nor do you actually expect to ever meet either achievement. You probably see climate change as a very real and very existential immediate threat, and have no patience for people who believe otherwise. You are probably more accepting of LGBTQ issues and rights than prior generations… but depending on where you fall in the millennial age spectrum, you might have some confusion or reluctance over the “TQ” portion of that category. You likely understand that depression is a legitimate medical issue that requires medical treatment, and is not instead a personal failure that a person needs to just “buck up” and overcome. You probably appreciate disco music more than the people who actually lived during disco’s heyday. You’re probably a nonsmoker. You have a higher likelihood of being a vegan. Fair odds that you’ve never suffered chicken pox, if you were born after 1990. Your political views, whether right or left, are probably more extreme than your parents and their peers at the same age. Your religion, if you have one (good odds you don’t) is probably more a matter of personal faith than participatory worship with a group. Your language use reflects your engagement with the internet; you’ve probably actually said “lol” more than once, unironically – and you’ve distinguished between doing something ironically and unironically. So on and so forth.

        Now any of these things could be true about you personally, or not. People outside our cohort can certainly hold these same viewpoints. But taken as a whole, you’ve got a pretty good outline for “generic millennial.” You could write a whole book full of thirty-somethings by doing nothing but tweaking these positions, and come off pretty believable (I mean you’d still need basic characterization, but these are good markers for making the characters seem their age authentically.)

    • #243355
      roguevalley
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 256

      I wish people would stop slagging boomers because we vote. We did a bale of shit before we were thirty. The world that you live in has more to it than the usual crap. We stopped a war, fought for equal, gay and racial rights. I grew up with segregation and wild ass racism that you’re only seeing now because of Trump. Imagine that all the time. (Not in my family but all around me)  We did a truck load of good and I’m personally sick of this ageist finger pointing. I do believe that a generation after us hasn’t done shit and neither has the rest of them. Where is their record of achievement? Just now getting in gear is no damned good reason to turn around and slam anyone else. We did our best and our kids, grandkids and great grandkids are sitting on their asses. List the achievements of the newest generations before you slam anyone else. Zillions of us haven’t forgotten who we are or what we did. We’re still fucking here.

    • #243383
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,350

      @roguevalley

      So, you’re sick of people being unfair to boomers – fair enough, I get it.  Yet then, in the same post, you speak of how the generations after have accomplished nothing.  This, while pointing out that boomers vote, did truck loads of good and so on.

      Yet – if boomers overwhelmingly vote – more than, say, the following generations… then should we blame you for Clinton and Reagan?  Bush and Bush junior?  Should we blame you, perhaps, for their policies and the results that we must now live with?

      Or would that be unfair?  You say millenials have not accomplished anything of significance.  Well, we somehow manage to survive in this world of debt gone wild.  We somehow survive without the media that previous generations had.  We are bombarded daily with high stress, mass media that lies to us and manipulates us, a Country and political body that is into union busting, locking up innocent kids.  We survive in spite of the for profit prison industry.

      We survive in spite of the mass inflation of the last several decades – and being mostly paid starvation wages.

      For this millenial, living in this era, surviving to age thirty five is something I consider an accomplishment.

      So many pass the buck.  It is not millenials, boomers, gen z or x.  While we are pointing fingers at each other – the NDAA passes, we get Presidents like Obama and Trump.  We have nominees like Clinton.  Maddow and Hannity and their ilk lie daily- and a lot of people who were brought up watching the news swallow the bull shit whole.

      Believe me, millenials, too, are blamed for everything under the sun.

      Only by working together can we dig ourselves out of this mess that ALL of us are now in.  You want the younger generations to accomplish something?  Then lend us your guidance, your wisdom, your patience.  That will help us to do so.

      If every generation considers that those who come next can be nurtured and guided in the right direction…

      If, indeed, we all considered how what we do will effect generations to come… perhaps things would not be so broken.

      It’s not your fault and it’s not my fault, but it is what it is- we live in a scary time that is becoming more and more desperate.  It is unfair and counterproductive to blame each other for it, though.

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