On Non-Conviction, Empire, and U.S. Presidents

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    • #401194
      ZimInSeattle
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,199

       

      Of Course Trump Should Be Convicted

      Donald Trump ought to be convicted by the U.S. Senate, of course: he instigated a mass proto-fascist physical assault on Congress in a last-ditch effort to stop it from certifying his clear defeat in the 2020 presidential election – and to provoke a pretext for martial law. Five people died. Many more could have perished. It was a despicable act driven by Trump’ big fascist “stop the steal” lie. If the Senate can’t take impeachment through conviction over that, what’s the point of having an impeachment process?

      There’s no basis for the Trump “legal” team’s claim that it is unconstitutional to impeach and convict a president after he has left office. The notion that the U.S. Founders wanted to give presidents a blank check to do whatever they want after they are un-elected is absurd. The preponderant majority of constitutional scholars agree that Congress has the right to convict Trump after his presidency, a prerequisite for the elementarily decent task of banning the monster from holding federal office again.

      Of Course He’ll Walk

      But just as obvious as the legitimacy and duty of a Trump conviction is the strong likelihood that the duty will not be met. Trump will walk. It takes a two-thirds tally in the upper body of Congress to convict. The votes aren’t there in a Senate that is evenly divided between the two dominant imperialist parties even though Democratic Senators represent 41 million more people than Republican Senators (since the nation’s anti-democratic 18th Century charter grants every U.S. state two Senators regardless of the states’ wildly different population totals.)

      It seemed briefly that conviction would reach the 66 of 100 Senate vote threshold, but that’s over now. In the final week of the month in which he incited an insurrectionary fascist attack on the Capitol, the Republican party establishment reconnected with Trump. On Tuesday, January 26th, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), who earlier acknowledged that Trump’s sparking of the assault was an impeachable offense, cynically voted to declare a second Trump impeachment trial unconstitutional since the 45th president is no longer in office (Malevolent Mitch cares not a whit about the counsel of constitutional experts). Two days later, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-CA), who said that Trump “bears responsibility” for the attack, traveled down to Mar a Lago to make amends with the disgraced fascist overlord. McCarthy still clings to the absurd notion that Biden didn’t legitimately win the presidency.

      More: https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/02/05/on-non-conviction-empire-and-u-s-presidents/

      "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime" - Aristotle "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine" - George Bernard Shaw "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK "If wars can be started by lies, they can be stopped by truth." ~ Julian Assange #SurviveAndRevolt

    • #401206
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @ziminseattle

      Hi zim,

      Have to disagree with the Vichy Dem sentiment expressed in this article.  None of the evidence for voting machine tampering was ever presented in court.  US courts sidestepped the issue by stating no plaintiffs had standing which means the actual merits of any evidence was never heard.

      As someone who personally witnessed voting machines change votes in 2004, I have no problem considering the possibility that voting machines can be tampered and further have no problem considering the possibility that Vichy Dems would stoop that low to regain power.  Further, I would remind all Bernie supporters that Bernie was cheated in both 2016 and 2020 by Vichy Dems.  A fact that seems to have already slipped from American political memory.

      Whether I like or don’t like Trump is not the issue.  If the voting machines are not secure, that is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.  If Vichy Dems continue this deception we will never know.

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

      • #401334
        eridani
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 9,978

        Paper ballots are tabulated by scanners NOT connected to the internet, and subjected to random hand count audits.  There are some machines at elections departments to assist people with various handicaps, but I doubt that anyone would think that there are enough of those votes to bother tampering with them.

        My major concern is that their software is ALWAYS in beta test mode.  Various observations of counts reaching a particular number and then counting backwards have occurred, but that is a buffer overflow problem which didn’t get fixed because of beta test mode software.

        Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

      • #401425
        ZimInSeattle
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,199

        Hi @thouartthat “he instigated a mass proto-fascist physical assault on Congress in a last-ditch effort to stop it from certifying his clear defeat in the 2020 presidential election – and to provoke a pretext for martial law.” Me thinks Street’s intent here is more toward clear defeat as presented, rather than saying there isn’t election fraud going on. I agree with you that there’s massive fraud going on, especially in the Dem primaries as we all know to our bones, but I’m not sure that the level of fraud in the general was sufficient to change the results. I mean who the fuck knows for sure? The whole process has been so de-legitimatized. Anyway, other than that quote, not sure where the Vichy Dem sentiment coming from. I think Street gets it right most of the time.

        "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime" - Aristotle "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine" - George Bernard Shaw "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK "If wars can be started by lies, they can be stopped by truth." ~ Julian Assange #SurviveAndRevolt

        • #402308
          ThouArtThat
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 4,544

          @ziminseattle

          Hi zim,

          Nothing quoted from Street has a bearing on the thoughts shared about election integrity.

          TAT

          “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
          - John F. Kennedy

          "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
          - George Orwell

          "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
          - Jiddu Krishnamurti

          "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
          - Idries Shah

          "A riot is the language of the unheard."
          - Martin Luther King

    • #401256
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,586

      k & r

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #401300
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,338

      Because you’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength and you have to be strong. We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated.

      I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

      https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-01-13/transcript-of-trumps-speech-at-rally-before-us-capitol-riot

    • #401400
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,526

      It’s stupid and pointless political theater to impeach a president after his term.

      Plus,although Trump bears a slight responsibility for the riot,his call for peaceful protest can rule out total incitement.The media are more to blame than he is,for stringing his supporters along with every breathless account of another lawsuit that might turn it around,but of course there will never be any accountability there.

      • #401426
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,757

        Which only requires a simple majority of the vote in both houses of Congress to bar him from serving in any federal office because he incited insurrection. They could do that, not saying they should, but they won’t because this is all about distraction theater, not actually accomplishing anything.

        Anything that distracts attention away from the failures of American capitalism goes.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #401431
        retired liberal
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,275

        Taking back control of our government so it serves the people and not the 1% has to start somewhere. Why not start with Trump?

        We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
        If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
        The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
        Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #402334
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,523

      Because it is the same people owned by the Oligargh who are using this to distract from raising minimum wage, giving Americans relief economically, shielding people from the fact that biden boarder rules are meaningless as ice is kicking out more people. Keeping people occupied with their fake trial so they don’t pay attention to more troops going into Syria, 30 new pipelines being pushed through, and censorship going through the roof!  Why would what trump did be any worse then what Regun ,Clinton,bush,bush,obama did? The whole thing is a joke. In the mean time Iran is threatening to start a nuclear program because they feel they have no choice, both Russia  and china are now connected in security like they never were before, and both countries have been very clear they have had enough. Americans are still dying of covid still have a failing infrastructure, still have no healthcare for all, still have failing schools, still have dams that are well beyond their life span. Yet congress think this theater is more important to keep the hate stirred up lest the people start to figure out how totally fucked up our country really is.

      Earthartist

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