MannyGoldstein (2342 posts)January 9, 2017 at 7:37 pm
Other than being the second-worst traitor on Earth,
I think Bernie’s done – and will continue to do – a wonderful job of moving Americans forward. He may have been cheated out of the Presidency, but he’s left quite a set of footprints; discussions today are much different than they were two years ago.
And he’ll continue to make big shoe prints (but some will look a little funny, in the spots where he pauses to kick Republicans (both admitted, and Third Way) in the ass).NVBirdlady, , nevereVereven and 61 othersEnthusiast, azurnoir, Pastiche, Baba OhReally, libodem, When Crabs Roar, area woman, Cleita, Rider, NothingcleverjustRay, Pacco Fransisco, Land of Enchantment, FourScore, tk2kewl, Odd John, pa28, WillyT, dlegendary1, OzoneTom, davidlynch, roguevalley, Autumn, ozoneman, NikolaC, hippiechick, Abakan, jwirr, ChiciB1, HomerRamone, whispers, Blackspade, westerebus, Melissa G, disillusioned73, ravensong, Charles, dorkzilla, Scuba, LiberalElite, Tierra y Libertad, 7wo7rees, ThinkingANew, BlueAK, so far from heaven, 99thMonkey, JEB, TRex, misanthroptimist, Octafish, jeff47, Haikugal, senz, Abelenkpe, DJ13, Marym625, donDonE, vattel, broiles, elias39, DoctorJ, zoolook67 like this"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
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elias39 (4439 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 7:45 pm
1. and the first worst is..“Name, no, nothing is nameable, tell, no, nothing can be told, what then, I don't know, I shouldn't have begun.” ― Samuel Beckett, Stories and Texts for Nothing
vattel (1566 posts) (Reply to elias39 - post #1) January 9, 2017 at 8:16 pm
sadoldgirl (1982 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 7:50 pm
2. Oh, Manny, dreaming is such a pleasant way to convince
oneself that the world will turn around. And,yes, I agree he’s done.
Anyone who supports the latest Obama actions and still pretends
that the democratic party stands up to his goals when they run away
from those, is losing it, sorry. He is being used as window dressing,
and he should realize it by now.
Marym625 (28366 posts) (Reply to sadoldgirl - post #2) January 9, 2017 at 8:01 pm
4. He's smarter than you're giving him credit for
He knows what he’s doing. And he will continue to fight the good fightTake Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
Phlem (640 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #4) January 10, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Outside of his what I think is faux support for the establishment, we would be listening to Hillary and Trump, Trump and Hillary 24/7. There would be nothing about the 99% and the issues would be drowned out.
I very much appreciate him for that.
Marym625 (28366 posts) (Reply to Phlem - post #29) January 10, 2017 at 6:29 pm
34. I as well!
He brought some of the real issues to the tableTake Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier, it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian
Rosa Luxemburg (1166 posts) (Reply to sadoldgirl - post #2) January 10, 2017 at 7:57 pm
Marym625 (28366 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 8:00 pm
He’s been doing it for decades but now he has the national stage. Those who didn’t know him before the primary, will now help him fight for what’s right.
sadoldgirl (1982 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #3) January 9, 2017 at 8:20 pm
7. Oh, Mary, he is smart alright, no doubt about that. Do you really
think that Schumer, Pelosi and the third way are stupid? I don’t.
Right now they welcome him to fight Trump. but after that? And
I think that they know that they have the power in the end, not
just the money, but the whole bloody establishment. Their effort
right now is to unite everyone against Trump, but by no means
to change the party. We heard it from Pelosi herself. So, no,
I am not deceived again.
ASimpleGame (939 posts) (Reply to sadoldgirl - post #7) January 10, 2017 at 11:50 am
27. I think Schumer sees the writing on the wall, just like Governor Cuomo
did which is probably why he presented a proposal for free tuition for all New York State and City colleges. I think there may be a Presidential run in Cuomo’s near future so he is moving himself to the left.
You’re right they aren’t stupid but they also know which way the wind is blowing and why Hillary lost to the worst candidate the Republicans have ever had for President. They also know it wasn’t because of the Russians. They also know they are getting old but still want to keep their jobs for a little longer.
Marym625 (28366 posts) (Reply to sadoldgirl - post #7) January 10, 2017 at 5:30 pm
31. I meant us. The people. Not the elected traitors
I’ve said a bunch of times, I refuse to “wait and see” with anyone. My assumption is they’ll do us wrong. If they surprise us and do something good, I’ll give them credit. But I don’t see that happening with any current member of Congress except Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren.
sadoldgirl (1982 posts) (Reply to Marym625 - post #31) January 10, 2017 at 6:19 pm
33. The problem is much greater than Trump or the Repugs. I remember a time
when Bernie said that he was fighting the establishment.At this point
he did not claim only the Democratic establishment, but the whole deep
state. Domestic policy will be disastrous, just coming from the repugs.
I grew up in a city that was destroyed by war, saw men crying and women
physically fighting about 2 potatoes, so that they could feed their kids. I saw
fear, famine, and many cripples, who lost a way to earn a living. Sorry, my
former country deserved that and more. There was only one item in Trump’s
agenda that seemed reasonable: No war with Russia and no more regime changes,
which have killed and hurt too many. No, I could and would never have voted for
him. My choice was Green. However, I hoped that Trump may have had the courage
to stop further slaughter, hunger and diseases in countries, which did not deserve it.
By now, even that small hope is gone. NATO is mobilized, US special forces have been
ordered to Lithuania at the Russian border, and large amount of US tanks have been
delivered to Germany to go to Poland and the Baltic States with 5,000 of our troops.
Repugs and Dems are attacking Russia for hacking and thereby indirectly Trump. Thus
I suppose he will be forced to do the bidding of the MIC/CIA and all its contractors. Most
people here have never experienced a war zone, and only 1% are involved with the active
military due to Nixon. That means that most here think mostly about domestic issues, and
not about world wide implications. I understand it, but am worried not only about Russia,
but Bolivia, Brazil, Cyprus, and all the other countries and their people, who will suffer for
“our” demand to be the world’s empire. I apologize for this rant, and thank you for your
Marym625 (28366 posts) (Reply to sadoldgirl - post #33) January 11, 2017 at 7:22 am
42. You have nothing to apologize for.
I appreciate your perspective. And I agree with you.
As far as Bernie, he’s not going after just one thing. He’s going after everything just individually.
There are some things that are uniquely GOP. Completely overturning Roe v Wade for example. Many dems and independents may want limitations but the GOP wants to overturn it 100%.
But I agree it is the entirety that we must fight. What piece of legislation actually helps the people? None I can think of. Yet they’re supposed to work for us.
As far as foreign policy, I don’t believe for a moment Trump had any intention of fighting to stop the U.S. from pulling all the same shit we have for decades.
I’m keeping the current highlighted picture up for another day because it’s dead on right.
Thank you for your important response
donDonE (229 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 8:03 pm
5. I actually read the body of your OP and hit recommend. After reading
the lead it seems you refer to Bernie as the second-worst traitor on Earth. If so, consider my rec withdrawn.
TYThere are three kinds of men, ones that learn by reading, a few who learn by observation, and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and learn for themselves. Will Rogers
BillZBubb (2916 posts) (Reply to donDonE - post #5) January 9, 2017 at 8:35 pm
8. Manny was referring to what some others say, then spears it in his text.
Manny supports Bernie all the way.DemExit! Don't give the Democrats a dime. Don't identify as a Democrat. Drop Democratic identification below 20%. Only then will they support true progressive policy. Until then, corporate money rules.
donDonE (229 posts) (Reply to BillZBubb - post #8) January 9, 2017 at 9:02 pm
10. Thanks for the clarification. I'm not very good with subtleness, sarcasm,
or any of the finer language skills.
I was with Bernie from the begining and will remain so.There are three kinds of men, ones that learn by reading, a few who learn by observation, and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and learn for themselves. Will Rogers
MannyGoldstein (2342 posts) (Reply to donDonE - post #10) January 9, 2017 at 10:03 pm
12. A number of JPR members think Bernie's a horrible traitor,
basically for believing that keeping Trump out of office was more important than keeping the Clintons out of office.
I happen to think that Bernie was right. And so, said members ain’t too fond of me, either!"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
Samantha (685 posts) (Reply to - post #12) January 9, 2017 at 10:43 pm
16. On Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays Trump would be the worst of the two
On Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays, Hillary would have been the worst of the two. On Sundays, both rest to build up energy for the week to pursue the Championship Belt for the Best of the Worst from Here to Political Eternity. Unfortunately, neither would be eligible for that belt since a tie decision would be inevitable. And that is the best I can say for either one of them, but it does make all participants in this JPR controversy somewhat correct.
donDonE (229 posts) (Reply to - post #12) January 10, 2017 at 7:45 pm
36. I'm with you, Bernie was always in for the long haul and clear
about the “revolution” taking at least several cycles.
Anyone who thought our nation’s problems could be fixed with the November election was extremely naive.There are three kinds of men, ones that learn by reading, a few who learn by observation, and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and learn for themselves. Will Rogers
MannyGoldstein (2342 posts) (Reply to donDonE - post #36) January 10, 2017 at 8:00 pm
40. Thank you!
Better put on your asbestos undies, though… tough crowd here."It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it" - Upton Sinclair
Silver Witch (5942 posts) (Reply to - post #12) January 11, 2017 at 7:43 am
43. If true those JPRers don't know Bernie.
Or understand he is fighting the big picture. His heart is doing right by us and I join him in stopping the bad seeds wherever planted.Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, and you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost~John Quincy Adams
nxylas (297 posts) (Reply to - post #12) January 11, 2017 at 12:08 pm
45. Surely Third Way Manny also considers Bernie the worst traitor on earth
With the possible exception of James Comey (and maybe Trump, though True Democratic Loyalists™ hate Bernie far more than Trump)."Slavery followed, even voluntary slavery; the weak eagerly submitted to the strong, on condition that the latter aided them to subdue the still weaker. Then there were saints who came to these people, weeping, and talked to them of their pride, of their loss of harmony and due proportion, of their loss of shame. They were laughed at or pelted with stones." - Dostoevsky, The Dream of a Ridiculous Man
MannyGoldstein (2342 posts) (Reply to nxylas - post #45) January 11, 2017 at 12:22 pm
I heard him mumbling about needing to do some sort of charm offensive for those Leftbaggers, or some such thing.
TRex (3564 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 8:58 pm
9. But Manny, he is not a Democrat!
And therefore the Purity Police say he will not pass go or Nevada. Chairs were thrown Manny, think of the horror!Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?
MannyGoldstein (2342 posts) (Reply to TRex - post #9) January 9, 2017 at 10:14 pm
13. Or, at least, liars claimed that chairs were thrown
Perception being reality, and all that stuff.
BillZBubb (2916 posts) (Reply to - post #13) January 10, 2017 at 6:34 am
22. Are you saying that was fake news?!!!!
The Democrats are against fake news, don’tcha know.
TRex (3564 posts) (Reply to - post #13) January 10, 2017 at 7:48 am
24. Are you saying the DNC would use fake news to their advantage?
Shocked am I!Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?
cascadiance (2950 posts) (Reply to TRex - post #9) January 10, 2017 at 2:16 am
18. But at least he was NEVER a Republican…
… which a certain other candidate can’t claim to be!Vote AGAINST the race to the bottom by both corporate parties who seek to screw workers over globally!
TRex (3564 posts) (Reply to cascadiance - post #18) January 10, 2017 at 7:47 am
23. Ouch! That has to hurt!
True, Sanders has been a progressive all his political life. Unlike a former Goldwater supporter.
PADemD (1293 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 9:04 pm
11. Bernie is our gray champion
Would the Gray Champion ever return? “I have heard,” added Hawthorne, “that whenever the descendants of the Puritans are to show the spirit of their sires, the old man appears again.”
Silver Witch (5942 posts) (Reply to PADemD - post #11) January 11, 2017 at 7:47 am
44. Thank you. Old sayings are my favorite. Especially when they come true.
so far from heaven (14941 posts) (Reply to original post) January 9, 2017 at 10:20 pm
14. Wasn't George Washinton and those other pesky liberals traitors?
Course they were.
Don’t worry @mannygoldstein , we’re in good company. Traitors one and all……."When you're in jail, a good friend will be trying to bail you out. A best friend will be in the cell next to you saying, 'Damn, that was fun.'" -Groucho Marx.
MannyGoldstein (2342 posts) (Reply to so far from heaven - post #14) January 9, 2017 at 10:23 pm
15. We must all hang together (until Putin saves us)'
or we will most certainly hang apart.
id-entity (2045 posts) (Reply to original post) January 10, 2017 at 1:46 am
17. When discourse changes for the better
it’s bigger than one man. Sanders has been a usefull catalyst, change in discussion, attitudes and atmosphere is what started with OWS, it’s each of us.Disclaimer: You are free to reproduce, distribute, interpret, misinterpret, distort, garble, do what you like, even claim authorship, without my consent or the permission of anybody.
d3lic (1157 posts) (Reply to original post) January 10, 2017 at 2:28 am
19. Could anyone be a more perfect opposite to Trump?
The guy is a dynamo and the US had better take it while it can still get it, and that timeline is short.
Rosa Luxemburg (1166 posts) (Reply to d3lic - post #19) January 10, 2017 at 7:55 pm
ravensong (1878 posts) (Reply to original post) January 10, 2017 at 5:22 am
20. Bernie gets it, and more people are seeing that he gets
it every day.
Real political rEvolution.Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues. ~ Bernie
disillusioned73 (555 posts) (Reply to original post) January 10, 2017 at 6:21 am
21. The Bernie is dead to me sect…
best wake up quick.. who else is out there pushing liberal values/ policies – no one.. like it or not he is our only hope at this point moving forward…"Certainly there are some people in the Democratic Party who want to maintain the status quo. They would rather go down with the Titanic so long as they have first-class seats." - Bernie Sanders
ChiciB1 (680 posts) (Reply to disillusioned73 - post #21) January 10, 2017 at 10:03 am
25. YES! I Totally Agree… To All
disillusioned, please provide names of ANYONE else who actually STOOD UP when NOBODY else DID!! Democrat OR Not, warts and all and any perceived fopahs since his Primary attempt (which I believe he DID win) tell me WHO else stood I when the Democratic Party tucked their tails between their butts, sat down AND beat their drums for the DLC/Third Way Agenda??!
And even today many are still groveling at the feet of these same IDIOTS!! Out, Out you spineless shells of what Democrats ONCE stood for!!
disillusioned73 (555 posts) (Reply to ChiciB1 - post #25) January 10, 2017 at 11:14 am
26. Makes one wonder…
what their intentions are… the internet has me leary these days, if we keep marginalizing our cause and the few we have left to push it.. what will be left to salvage?? Infiltrating and transforming the D party is unfortunately the only reasonable & realistic plan going forward – I am with Bernie.."Certainly there are some people in the Democratic Party who want to maintain the status quo. They would rather go down with the Titanic so long as they have first-class seats." - Bernie Sanders
dlegendary1 (1052 posts) (Reply to disillusioned73 - post #26) January 10, 2017 at 1:16 pm
28. So am I
He’s playing a bigger game the establishment hasn’t caught yet. He may have lost but he still going out there and kicking ass, unlike a certain candidate who dissipated after losing the election. He’s sowing seeds and I’m interested in seeing how big those trees will grow.These mofos at the DNC can lick mah balls! I'm not voting or supporting their 3rd way goons.
doh1304 (509 posts) (Reply to disillusioned73 - post #21) January 10, 2017 at 4:10 pm
30. Just an opinion, but
I think that when Hillary stole the nomination Bernie was faced with a choice, he could run independent or Green, and lose like Teddy Roosevelt, or play loyal, and not lose his power base after the election.
Now there are two theories, replace the Democratic Party or reform it. Bernie is obviously in the reform camp. But also, at least superficially his hand is stronger with the reformists – he can always, if 2018 is the utter annihilation of the DP that I think it will be, be one of the few left standing to pick up the pieces. And he will have millions with him to work with if he looks good today, much more than he would have if he abandoned the Dems now.
When Crabs Roar (55 posts) (Reply to disillusioned73 - post #21) January 10, 2017 at 7:19 pm
35. Bernie left a clear road map to follow
No need to reinvent the wheel here, just adopt most of those well thought out positions, keep it simple and repeat them often.
But I fear we may have to start a new party to keep the message from being hijacked and twisted into something that panders to the very groups that brought us defeat in this last election.
Lots of progressive groups are coming together right now to oppose what seems to be a disaster that is fast approaching and with some good coordinated organizing the timing might be good for the Political Revolution.
Now is not the time to lick our wounds, now is the time to organize and fight the fascists for control of our country.
These 75 year old eyes have never seen the magnitude of threats to our country and to our world as they observe now.
Ready to leave your comfort zone?
MrMickeysMom (1899 posts) (Reply to original post) January 10, 2017 at 5:39 pm
32. Correct your subject line, Manny…
Unless you are using a wink and nod that I don’t see through…
The DNC were and continue to be the worst traders, meanwhile.
malokvale77 (973 posts) (Reply to MrMickeysMom - post #32) January 10, 2017 at 7:58 pm
Enthusiast (11124 posts) (Reply to original post) January 11, 2017 at 6:13 am
41. Bernie must continue to emphasize the need for single payer,
preserving social security, American jobs, higher taxes on the wealthy and low or no tuition higher education."The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide." Frank Church "When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in society, over the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it." - Frederic Bastiat, 1848