People are being stupid – even now.

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    • #409952
      David the Gnome
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      • Total Posts: 2,915

      I know we’ve all heard a lot about the recent re-openings.  States lifting mask mandates, re-opening businesses that were closed due to the danger of the pandemic.  There are glowing reports from the media about how numbers are going down – even some giving credit to Joe Biden.  Let me be very blunt with my point – it is too early.

      There is a strain, typically referred to by the media as the “UK strain” of covid19 that is more infectious, has a higher cfr – and according to what I have read is somewhat more resistant to vaccines.  According to studies so far, the vaccines still work – so that’s the good news.  The bad news is that we are stilling losing a lot of people every day.  A couple days ago – the death toll was over 1700.  Does anyone else remember when that would have been considered a terrible tragedy?  Something to grieve?  Yet now, it is a common occurrence, every day, over a thousand, or two thousand people, dead, who didn’t have to die.  Who shouldn’t have.  I am going to insist here, quite bluntly, that if we had adequate federal leadership our death toll would not be half of what it is.  Yes, Trump deserves a share of the blame – but so too, do both political parties and their incompetence.

      In any event, I was told by my local hospital today that they want me to start going to my appointments in person.  Whether for a standard checkup, or the therapy and medication management that I have the advantage of through the hospital and mainecare/medicaid.  Not just me.  I was told that they want to start “moving away” from telehealth.  That is, of course, their choice.  A hospital is a business, a profit based business and one that undoubtedly seeks to continue operating (and profiting) from having patients show up in person.  Yet many, many people remain reluctant to go to the hospital – and I am one of them.

      Simply put, there is no need for a physical attendance when it comes to talk therapy.  If I need medical tests done by a lab, surgery, or something of that nature, then I can understand that need.  I don’t – not for any of this.  Of course, the law now permits and ultimately requires those taking controlled substances to submit to random drug tests.  My physician can call that in any time and I will have to deliver – or stop getting my medication.  That would be… unfortunate.

      Nonetheless, it is making me reconsider their services.  No, I’m not comfortable going in person when it is not necessary.  It is a hospital – and we remain in a global pandemic, one which has hit the U.S. particularly hard due to our ignorance, America first bull shit and so on and so forth.  People being stupid – not using protective measures such as masks or face shields.  Not even trying to practice social distancing.  Then we have the rallies, largely from the right that is telling us that this is all about the government trying to control us.  They are… or at least were wrong.

      I had not been required to do as they are asking previously – and that seems to be changing.  So in all likelihood I will seek remote therapy elsewhere and find another physician to prescribe my meds.  I may need to meet in person once for the initial paperwork and so on, but I’ll deal with that.

      The issue is that this hospital and its administration are deliberately encouraging the spread of a pandemic for the sake of profit.

      I can see it no other way.  They know (and the experts know – and by this point, we should all know) that the higher the number of patients showing up in person, the greater the likelihood of more cases and thus more deaths.  The greater the likelihood of more critical cases.  Still over fifty thousand cases a day and over one thousand deaths?  That is not “the end”.  It is not time to take a fucking victory lap.  It is time to keep doing what we are doing until the numbers are down much further.

      I am afraid that the results of this National corruption and greed of our healthcare system will break us even further.

      I won’t support it, I won’t stand for it.  I’m not blaming Doctors and nurses – I’m blaming the motherfuckers who tell them they need to keep patients in beds and keep the hospitals as full as possible.  THAT is what happens when you have a poorly regulated healthcare system run via  a profit motive.  That is what happens when you have a capitalist society that is more concerned with wealth than health.

      At this point, I am well beyond disgusted.

    • #409955
      incognito
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,574

      It’s okay! Just wear your mask, wash your hands and social distance and everything will be fine! 🙄COVID-19 infected people have the right to not wear masks, wash their hands or social distance and then travel anywhere they want in this country or around the world infecting millions more unsuspecting people. It’s their right! *Sarcasm*

      It’s absolutely outrageous your doctor insists you unnecessarily risk your life when it’s your choice not to. I would tell them to pound sand and definitely find someone else willing to teleconference with you. This country and a HUGE percentage of people living here SUCK and have zero compassion or empathy for the well-being of other people. 500,000+ dead means jack shit to them, yet when 3,000 died on 911 it was the worst thing in the world. Every Sept. 11 we have endless 911 coverage. Have the 500,000+ been honored for one bloody second in this country? No. It’s ignored…. pretending, in their own minds, it never happened. We have lost more people to COVID-19 than we lost in WWI, WWII and Vietnam combined. So what? Let people continue to murder other people (and it is deliberate murder in a pandemic) until we’ve lost a sufficient number of people to satisfy the blood lust of RWers and those who blow this off as being nothing more than a little flu bug. I beg to differ and I’ll be damned if I let them kill me or my loved ones.

      And just look at what Cuomo did. He deliberately murdered thousands of elderly in NY nursing homes and has the unmitigated gall to refuse to step down from being Governor. Arrogant bastard that he is. I hope he gets his ass sued into oblivion.

      Follow your gut (because you are right) and do what you know is the right thing to do for yourself and humanity.

      Stay well!

      Peace ✌️

      👍

    • #409956
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 5,538

      Just seeing the effect of the Trump-kisser Bolsonaro’s Brazil should give the stupid denizens of this country another slap on the head. What we have here is an ultimate Soylent Green that will only be served by a constant mixed message of what protocols should be in place for “health” care, which is not health care at all.

      All the things I’ve tried to do in calling attention to this failed system have failed themselves. But, I pursue, sweetie, and so will you.

       

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #409957
      soryang
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,150

      He said “it won’t change Americans are just selfish.” A year on and some people in the US are still debating masks? LOL.

    • #409958
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,915

      @incognito

      That is essentially what it amounts to in Cuomo’s case – and to think, the media had this whole hero worship thing for him.  Seems to be a problem with that – largely that journalists (unworthy of the title) are fawning over politicians without really doing any… actual investigative journalism.  Whoops.  Come to find out he’s a crook, a liar – and maybe has (allegedly) done some very inappropriate things with regards to women who have had to work with him.  Nope, not okay with that, not even a little bit.  The fact that he remains a Governor and has not been either recalled, charged with crimes, or forced to resign, really highlights how corrupt the system has become.

      Now hospitals are pushing us to spread the pandemic?  I mean… seriously?  Fucking hospitals?


      @mrmickeysmom

      Yep, Bolosarno – or however you spell that fucking bozo’s name, is a real shit.  I wish I could say that our own politicians were not.  Oh, in general (particularly among democrats) they are better polished, better spoken and have better PR campaigns – but many are just as bad and some are even worse.  I have heard that when the likes of Cuomo, Trump, Christie, Clinton and many others go off script – the stuff you hear is so sickening as to be unthinkable to say in front of a camera.  Remember what cost Romney the election?  That however high a percentage of American people were just lazy “takers”?  At a dinner that costed 50K a plate? (campaign event for “special” donors!)  Whoops.


      @soryang

      Plenty of people are selfish.  Everyone is to some extent, or we would cease to exist.  Yet there are different extremes.  This current extreme… is sickening.  If “it” (meaning, I assume, the system, the way of things, some such bull shit) will not change, then perhaps we need to.  To stop accepting the shit they try to force down our throats.  It will not be easy for me if it becomes necessary to completely stop taking my controlled substance – in fact it will likely be months of hell.  Yet i have it on good authority that, given the low dose I am on, it will probably not kill me.  I’m willing to do it if I must.  I will not be held hostage by that – and fuck them for pushing that – and for requiring patients who use their medications appropriately to “submit” to random drug tests.  Fucking assholes.

      Anyhow…

      Some days it just ain’t worth chewing the restraints – borrowing that quote from someone, I don’t quite recall who.  I have avoided a lot of political discussion lately – but this isn’t just politics.  This is life.  These same fuckers who give trillions to wall street and corporate America are once again telling us to tighten our belts and go risk our lives.  How many of them do you think would be showing up at a general public hospital?  How many of them are going bankrupt from medical bills?

      Welcome to Sociopathia.

      • #409960
        soryang
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,150

        @davidthegnome

        Yes. I don’t need to watch the news or read message boards to get all worked up about medical care or the state of public health in the US. All i need to do is read my mail, emails, from health insurance companies, doctors offices, and pharmacies, to know this country is corrupt to the bone and that the so called professional class is largely without principle, scruple or ethics.

    • #410003
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 12,404

      Pfizer vaccine is effective against Brazil Covid variant – plus UK and South African strains

      The Pfizer vaccine may be effective in protecting against the Covid-19 variant that emerged in Manaus, Brazil, and has now been detected in the UK, a new study has found.  Research has indicated that the vaccine also generated an antibody response against the UK variant and the strain first detected in South Africa…levels of neutralising antibodies were generated against all three variants, although the level did vary between the strains.

      The antibody response was greatest against the original coronavirus variant and the more transmissible B117 variant first detected in Kent, according to the study published in the New England Journal of Medicine.

      The response was slightly lower against the P1 variant first identified in Brazil, and was lower still against the B151 variant first discovered in South Africa, researchers from the University of Texas Medical Branch and Pfizer found

      https://www.scotsman.com/health/coronavirus/pfizer-vaccine-is-effective-against-brazil-covid-variant-plus-uk-and-south-african-strains-3160635

       

      Moderna says its COVID-19 vaccine protects against new UK and South African variants but plans to test new booster shot

      In a statement Monday, Moderna said the vaccine triggered an immune response to “all key emerging variants,” including B.1.1.7 and B.1.351, which were first identified in the U.K. and South Africa, respectively.

      While the study showed no changes immune response to the U.K. variant compared to the original coronavirus, the vaccine produced a weaker immune response to the South African variant…

      The booster candidate, mRNA-1273.351, will advance into preclinical studies and Phase 1 trial in the U.S.

      Public health experts say the variants from the U.K. and South Africa transmit at a higher rate, leading to more infections and more deaths.

      https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/01/25/covid-moderna-says-vaccine-protects-against-uk-south-africa-variants/6698624002/

    • #410017
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,735

      The stupid, it burns!

      In my state, NY, it was decided to help thwart the spread of COVID-19 by telling gyms that they had to close earlier. It took people about a minute to realize how that was counter productive (the density of people working out at the same time at the end of the day rose), but the regulation stays in place. Ironically, it seems intuitively true that forcing gyms that wanted to operate to stay open longer would have the best outcome.

      Regulators gotta regulate, whether or not that’s a good thing.

    • #410023
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,226

      Hi David,

      There is something I heard from a physician on the news

      recently, which may explain the hospital’s reaction. He said

      essentially that unless the insurances pay for tele-treatment,

      the doctors would be forced to insist on treatment in person.

      If that is true, you will have to complain about our lousy

      insurance companies.

    • #410044
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 20,155

      There are a few mass vaccination places in my area, but getting an appointment is like winning–I was going to say the lottery, but it’s not that bad–a church bingo game. It’s still a pain in the ass.

      Since my stepdaughter, who is a children’s daycare worker, finally was approved to get her first shot yesterday, and since we’ve already either had the thing at least once or been exposed gazillions of times and not gotten it, we want something in exchange for our time and cooperation after enduring the last year.

      We want a schedule on what things, like our libraries and schools, will be fully reopen again if such-and-such percentage of the population gets vaccinated. It’s a pretty easy and, I think reasonable, thing for the state government to provide. We don’t expect them to be reasonable or intelligent or to do the right thing if we just trust their judgment, since small bookstores and libraries were closed, not to mention museums and concerts and the like, but Barnes & Nobles and Amazon, the latter replete with health violations, were allowed to remain open.

      Small restaurants shut down. Big chains allowed to remain open. Things like that.

      When will the mask mandate end? When can we live a somewhat normal life again? Assuming, of course that a certain percentage of the population cooperate. Until those questions are answered, there are a whole lot of people like us who won’t go out of their way to get vaccinated, and that includes a lot of food service and grocery workers. This is how it is. The government could easily get us all in, but I don’t see that happening.

      My point is that for a lot of people, maybe 10 or 20% of the population, at least, won’t go out of their way to get vaccinated if they think the same social distancing and mask requirements will just go on whether they take the trouble, and it is trouble for many, to get the vaccine.

       

       

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #410105
      Hobbit709
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,360

      “If you bet on human greed and stupidity, you won’t be wrong too often,”

      “Stupidity is more common than Hydrogen in the universe.”

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

    • #410135
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,915

      @ohiobarbarian

      Restrictions – under sane circumstances, would have been implemented and mandated well before they were.  Thanks largely to our idiots in congress, state governors and the President, that didn’t happen.

      From the beginning, this has been a disaster in so many ways.

      Eventually, assuming we approach something resembling herd immunity, most restrictions will be lifted.  Yet 60,000 cases (yesterday) and 1600 deaths is a daily National tragedy and shame.

      I do not think we are going to have a good summer this year.  I think we might have, if things were done differently.  Now though… we are looking at spring break along with the dramatic rise in the UK strain which is becoming dominant.

      Meanwhile, our politicians lie to us, the organizations we should have been able to trust (CDC, HS, etc) have become so politicized and corrupted that I wouldn’t trust the CDC Director to diagnose anything at all. Maybe a doctor in the field… But I digress.

      We all want a return to some kind of normal, we all want this shit to end – and it isn’t ridiculous to ask when.  It is just that no one really knows yet.

      Meanwhile… I’ve known some hospital administrators.  To some extent, it is their job to make sure hospitals profit.  So they are likely the ones telling medical professionals to push in person meetings.

      As pointed out by @sadoldgirl there is also a question of whether insurance companies will cover remote meetings.  More evidence for why we shouldn’t need insurance companies for healthcare.

      I don’t think you’re partially stupid – I think our system is extremely stupid and broken and that tens of millions suffer as a result.  I think greed has come to replace principle, morality, courage… wisdom and truth.

      I think it is a war the masses will continue to lose for some time yet.

      • #410184
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 20,155

        They should have had lockdowns and UBI by December at the latest. Speaking from personal experience, they didn’t start in Ohio until mid-March, just in time to quash the big St. Patrick’s Day parade here, and then they were haphazard and inconsistent. Small restaurants kept closed, corporate ones allowed to reopen. The schools’ efforts at home-learning were unmitigated disasters as far as the kids and parents were concerned.

        In short, it was a mess, and still is. That’s why so many people simply don’t trust what their governments say, because they have been misinformed or flat-out lied to for most of the last year. All the photos of the politically powerful having gala parties with no masks, no social distancing, at the same time they were virtue-signaling to the rest of us didn’t help matters any.

        This would have been the ideal time to decree Medicare for All or at least a temporary UBI, as nearly every other civilized country on the planet already had or did, and if that had happened we would not be in the mess we find ourselves in now. But it didn’t happen, so a lot of people are thinking the Covid restrictions are being kept in place for the purpose of eliminating our right to freedom of assembly, and therefore for political repression. They’re mainly wrong, I believe(Napoleon’s axiom to never look for malice when the likelier explanations are stupidity or incompetence comes to mind), but they still have a valid point.

        The restrictions seem too convenient when they help a few wealthy interests and crush small businesses. I can’t tell you how strong that sentiment is here, but it’s strong. A couple of weeks ago DeWine lifted the curfews on restaurants and bars, not because he wanted to, and not even because they weren’t doing any good even when they were obeyed, but because most places just started ignoring the curfews and the only way to enforce them would have been to declare martial law, and that would not have gone over well.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #410191
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,915

      @ohiobarbarian

      But a thing that may be necessary at some point.  No one with a damn bit of sense wants a scenario in which martial law is actually declared, let alone for good reason.

      I have to wonder though.. things have become so polarized now, so absurd – particularly when we consider groups (or at least the conspiracy theories of) like Qanon, the Russiagate conspiracy theory, the various “hacks” that have never and almost certainly will never see arbitration, international or otherwise and the huge number of militias and right wing paramilitary organizations and so on and so forth.  The riot in January was ugly – and it actually, for the first time in many years, gave our politicians a twinge of fear.  More than a twinge, several of them most likely needed to change their depends.

      I can imagine any number of scenarios that could be potentially a whole lot worse.  I am told though, that I do in fact have a diagnosis that can lead to paranoia, cynicism, pessimism and so on and so forth, so I must take my imagination well salted.  Still.  Shit happens.

      Honestly, I think this stimulus package that just got signed might be one of the last gasps of our modern government.  In a couple months – at absolute best – nearly all of that money will be gone.  In a few more, the moratorium will run out, the extended unemployment benefits will end – and those jobs that replace those lost will be fewer in number, offer lower pay and less overall benefits.  That is just how it has always worked during my lifetime – and I see no reason to believe that will change.  There is no modern equivalent to FDR.

      States have been left on their own to make decisions.  A lack of courage and decisive action in federal government – as well as a lack of long term thinking or planning has left a whole lot of shit simply… up in the air.

      We’d have to be really damn crazy to think everything was well – and I’m only half crazy.

      You are absolutely right, as well, regarding both incompetence and stupidity and the overall situation of the rich being given more of… well, everything.  It seems we are ruled by nasty little people who think we should give more to those who already have more, in order to… boost the economy?  Trickle money down to the poor despite decades of data proving that trickle down economics is bull shit?

      One thing that is increasingly disturbing to me… it seems that every passing month I see more confederate flags in my neck of the woods.  Whether its an actual flag, on a shirt, cap, or whatever.  I think it won’t be long before we start seeing a lot more swatstikas.  As much as some like us favor more progressive methods, there will always be those who favor the opposite.

      • #410198
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 20,155

        Maybe that’s because of where I live; I don’t know. I do know that no armed people showed up in Columbus to protest the Covid restrictions because Ohio Republicans were never stupid enough to allow the public to come into their Capitol armed, and the State Patrol was waiting for any problems.

        I think 1/6/21 was deliberately allowed to happen and that Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer, at least, were in on it, so that they can push yet more powers for the national security state. I cannot prove that, but I strongly suspect it. If the DC Police had been deployed, none of that would ever have happened. There weren’t that many protesters and not many of them seemed to have much of a clue of what they were doing. I think they were used, and not by Republicans.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #410201
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,915

      That also might be giving too much credibility to malice though.  I think most of those involved in the riot were as they seemed – pissed off right wingers.  Did Pelosi or Schumer know and help orchestrate it?

      I don’t know – but I haven’t seen any evidence beyond anecdotal to suggest that may be the case.  Pelosi and Schumer are bad enough as it is – but if your theory is correct?

      Then it worked as planned.  It gave them the excuse needed to crack down hard on dissent, to bring military forces into Washington DC and to pour more money into the defense apparatus.

      Maybe.  Far too much is uncertain.  While I find the views of the far right despicable, there are many democrats who are also far right – compared to history or any other modern western “democracy”.

      I am reluctant to trust them – but more reluctant to overestimate their intelligence.  Too many rich people, despite appearances, are horrendously stupid and incompetent.

       

    • #410213
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,915

      That was one of the most awkward conversations I have had in quite some time.  She used a lot of words to say things that, to me, seemed like bull shit – not that she was lying – but that what she said made no damn sense.  It has rather tightened my tinfoil hat this morning.

      I was told that the Governor and the CDC are encouraging more in person meetings and the hospital is working along with them in this regard.  So I asked, “Respectfully, Mam, aren’t experts like Dr. Fauci telling us that we should be restricting in person meetings?  Particularly at places like hospitals where people go when they are sick?  Isn’t it accurate to say that, if we increase the number of direct, in person visits, we increase transmission?”  The response to this was: “Well, a lot of our professionals want to do more in person meetings because they believe they can accomplish much more that way and we are having issues with technology, like Zoom and such”.

      Really?  I mean – don’t get me wrong – it may be perfectly accurate to say that some therapists (with no background in any of the particular studies that would qualify them to make these recommendations) and other workers do prefer in person meetings.  Sure, I buy that.  I buy that that is the case for some.  I also am aware of the fact that there are often technical issues especially at smaller hospitals with lower budgets.

      Here is the thing though – however they word it: This is a completely fucking moronic policy.

      “We want patients to feel more safe.”  Okay?  “We are working with the Governor and the CDC!”  Okay – which particular agents of the CDC have advocated for reducing and actually discouraging remote meetings?  What are their backgrounds?  Let’s see some evidence of this.  Particularly though… what are the epidemiologists and virologists saying?  What are we hearing from people who have been working in this field for decades?  Who have worked through the ebola epidemics, through the aids pandemic and so on and so forth?  Are they telling us to relax restrictions?

      Not any I have seen.  Quite the opposite.  They are saying what I mentioned above.  It isn’t time for a victory lap, this isn’t over.  Rather than lifting restrictions, now is the time to carpe diem – to seize the day, to tighten down on a few restrictions and vaccinate as much as we can, as quickly as we can – and we might just fucking beat this thing!

      Yet… different elements of our society, healthcare system, political system and so on… are encouraging the opposite.  There are people doing this on both sides of the political fence, of, however privately sneering, people suggesting that those of us concerned are paranoid, or overreacting.

      Is over half a million dead not enough?  Is the undeniable fact that we have overwhelmingly more cases, deaths, economic suffering and social unrest as the result of this not enough?  What the fuck will it take to show some people that basic math isn’t a damn hoax?  We reduced the numbers of in person meetings, closed most dine in restaurants, lobbies, many, many businesses.  Yes, it sucked for a lot of us, yes it was painful – but it was god damn working.

      Now they want it to stop working?  I really don’t get it.  When I mentioned the insurance angle, this hospital administrator told me she hadn’t heard anything about insurance companies “possibly not covering remote visits for much longer.”  I am all kinds of suspicious.

      When she asked me if I would continue to use the hospital services, I said that for now I will.  My therapist’s office in particular has addressed my concerns by sending out an MA to meet me with the paperwork (as I sit in my car in the parking lot).  I’m okay with that.  If those treating me will work with me, I will work with them because I am not spoiled for options.

      Yet… I would point out… once again – that something is VERY fucking wrong here.

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