Poll: Is it time to give up on lockdowns?

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Is it time to give up on lockdowns and let people decide what they are willing to do and how they manage coronavirus risk?

Many people in the US and around the world are ignoring or circumventing lockdowns and refusing vaccinations. As it's been over a year and the coronavirus continue to spread in most countries, is it time to let people decide what they are willing to do?

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  • Yes, lockdowns haven't been successful. People should make their own decisions now.
  • No, we need to keep trying to control the spread, no matter what.
  • It's too challenging for a simple yes/no answer (comments welcome)
  • Instead of lockdowns, we should do this: (Suggestions welcome in comments!)
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    • #421980
      jbnw
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,519

      @ohiobarbarian ‘s post on Japanese lockdown issues at https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/packed-trains-drinking-japanese-impatient-over-virus-steps/#post-421971 made me wonder if it’s time to give up on lockdowns and let the coronavirus run its course, as it seems that’s what a enough people want. We can look at openings in states and around the world, lawsuits over lockdown, and countries that don’t have access to vaccines and limited options.

    • #421982
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,694

      Open everything, but be ready to shut it down again in response to sudden spikes.

    • #421986
      Pam2
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,159

      I have no clue. It seems like it’s just a free for all everywhere. People going to Disneyland and other non- essential activities.

       

    • #421987
      Satan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,758

      When you get to the point that most mortals (or at least adults) have been vaccinated, then it would seem logical that things could start returning to “normal” (whatever that means).

      Of course the complicated part of that is the question of whether the vaccination actually stops the spread, or whether it merely keeps mortals from developing symptoms, though they might still possibly be carrying the bug around. And the other question of how the vaccines will hold up against new mutant “variants” of the virus.

      In any case, it’s 666% idiotic to do what the red states like Florida are doing, and just ignorantly opening everything up, pretending the virus doesn’t exist anymore.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #421988
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,878

      Most of the lockdowns fell into the “too little, too late” category, and as a result weren’t very successful.  Some countries, like New Zealand, did the lockdowns right.  But now that there are effective vaccines available, plus effective prophylaxis with ivermectin, plus effective treatment with vitamin D, lockdowns are a poorly aimed blunderbuss.

      Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

    • #421990
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 7,445

      It worked for countries like New Zealand that took immediate action. The U.S. didn’t take any kind of immediate action, much less a nation-wide lockdown. Continuing the piecemeal lockdowns at this point will only destroy more businesses and consequently, more lives. People who don’t want to get vaccinated, won’t get vaccinated. Period.

      That doesn’t mean we should go back to what we consider “normal.” Continue to require masks in crowed areas such as grocery stores, whether or not you have been vaccinated; maintain social distancing with strangers; limit crowd sizes in restaurants and the like. With these restrictions, we have to find a way to compensate/support those people and businesses that rely on crowd size to turn a profit.

      The entertainment industry will continue to suffer.  The possible exception might be the film industry. For the most part, they have figured out ways to film safely by limiting on-set attendance and isolating cast and crew while filming. Live performances are another situation altogether, and I don’t have a solution. Streaming performances is definitely not the same as experiencing them live, whether they be rock concerts, opera, ballet or symphony.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #421995
      soryang
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,269

      The general lockdown model was a result of not having a public health service response option. If there were a general monitoring system in place ahead of time, which could have been mobilized to test, track, quarantine positive cases, and restrict the activities of only affected persons and institutions in a timely manner, generalized lockdowns would not have been required. Lockdowns could have been targeted at specific locations where the virus was detected. But with no plan, no test kits, no monitors, no masks, no ppe and no response beyond lockdowns which shut everything down, the US had no options other than plan for a vaccine roll out eventually.

      South Korea never had a general lockdown. They have a very low case incidence and mortality rate, because they have a public health system that was prepared and works in spite of a general shortage of doctors nationwide. With their vaccine rollout very limited to this point, their public health response was far superior in its results both economically and scientifically speaking to anything in the “advanced countries” in the west.

      In the US, a generalized public health system response was never really mobilized, instead we’re working with the proverbial “public private partnership” to distribute vaccines. There still really is no general public health monitoring system here capable of tracking outbreaks in an attempt to contain them before they spread everywhere. Some people said it was too late at various points in the spread of the epidemic in the US. They are right in the sense of cost benefit analysis. It was a self fulfilling prophecy. Those who don’t bother to prepare to effectively protect the public health won’t.

    • #422030
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,234

      Whereas following a policy of, ‘some people need to die for the economy’, and ‘this virus is just a cold’ will do more harm than good.

      Here is a fact a lot of people do not know about or ignore, you can still get this virus or any other virus even though you are immune by prior infection or vaccination. Thus, the virus could be spread to others before your immune system has a chance to react. This is why social distancing and mask wearing are needed to be followed.

      What really complicates this is, we really do not know much about SARS/COVID-19. The reason for a COVID-19 vaccine development in a year was due to other SARS studies and development of those vaccines. COVID-19 really threw a wrench in the works because of people becoming highly contagious before showing symptoms.

      The following link contains information about what we do know about COVID-19:

       

      We know a lot about Covid-19. Experts have many more questions (Stat News)
      By Helen Branswell

       

      Less than a year and a half ago, the world was blissfully, dangerously ignorant of the existence of a coronavirus that would soon turn life on earth on its head.

      In the 16 months since the SARS-CoV-2 virus burst into the global consciousness, we’ve learned much about this new health threat. People who contract the virus are infectious before they develop symptoms and are most infectious early in their illness. Getting the public to wear masks, even homemade ones, can reduce transmission. Vaccines can be developed, tested, and put into use within months. As they say, where there’s a will, there’s a way.

      But many key questions about SARS-2 and the disease it causes, Covid-19, continue to bedevil scientists.

      Posters Note: The follow are a list of questions in the article…

      What accounts for the wide variety of human responses to this virus?

      How much immunity is enough immunity?

      How often will reinfections happen and what will they be like?

      How are viral variants going to impact the battle against Covid-19?ut another way, how long will immunity last?

      What is long Covid, who is at risk of developing it, and can it be prevented?

      What’s the deal with Covid and kids?

      How big a role do asymptomatically infected people actually play in SARS-2 transmission?

      What does the future hold for SARS-2, evolutionarily and otherwise?

      Can we figure out who might become a superspreader?

      Can we learn more quicker from the study of the genetic sequences of SARS-2 viruses?

      The impact of the nonpharmaceutical interventions

      The differences between SARS-2 and its older cousin, SARS-1

      Last but not least: Where did SARS-2 come from?

      LINK–StatNews, We know a lot about Covid-19. Experts have many more questions

      Be safe everyone!

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

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    • #422059
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 4,268

      The Trumpsters here made sure they spread the Covid as best they could and did their best to drag out recovery.

    • #422085
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,496

      You also don’t have to do that either but I recommend the Pfizer vaccine. I had no problems and obviously I’m still alive.

      Now that I’m fully vaccinated I can go to Sun Devil games with a mask. I actually bought season tickets for last season back in December 2019 so not sure how tickets are going to work since I pushed them to next season instead of getting a refund.

      I went through anti-lockdown, anti-mask, and now anti-vax. The sooner this goes away the sooner everything goes back to pre-pandemic.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

      Like many public systems, GOP want to rip the battery out + say the whole car doesn’t work, so they can sell it for parts - AOC

    • #422131
      snot
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,191

      think we should do more to enforce the less-drastic measures such as masking and distancing, including prohibiting bars and other venues from packing people in at full capacity.

      Allowing variants to freely evolve, when we have no idea of the long-terms effects of the virus once contracted, seems to me to be extremely foolish.

      Destruction is easy; creation is hard, but more interesting.

      • #422196
        Bernie Boomer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 490

        @snot.
        You can’t force lockdown compliance without draconian measures. The only countries that really managed it have social cultures that value social cooperation for the good of the many.

        Going back to pre-pandemic ‘normal’ is not a good idea (my town, Las Vegas, is going to find that out in the fall. Nevada is opening up fully June 1st).  We are not in any sort of normal right now. The US is not going to reach herd immunity – and the new variants developing in India (and other places) are striking down people across age-groups.

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