(Re- anti-vaxxer’s:) Not sure I’d seriously advocate this, but

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    • #451352
      snot
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      • Total Posts: 1,379

      …logically speaking, anti-vaxxers shouldn’t object to being put in a separate health insurance pool.  If they’re right that the vaccines are more dangerous than the disease, their premiums should ultimately be lower.

      (I’m worried about my premiums rising because of hospitalizations of the unvaccinated.)

      Destruction is easy; creation is hard, but more interesting.

    • #451354
      PADemD
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      • Total Posts: 2,365

      Regardless of illness.  That’s what I voted for in the last election.

    • #451366
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 6,979

      Check the U.S. Treasury… The amount of money that has been printed over this year far exceeds what has been printed in well over a decade. That’s called inflation and is it going to be run-away inflation? That is going to hardly matter when you can’t afford to stay in your homes over one major medical emergency.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

      • #451380
        eridani
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        • Total Posts: 10,976

        Specie is less than 3% of the money that people spend.  I use maybe $800/year in cash, it that.

        Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

        • #451406
          Mr. Mickeys Mom
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 6,979

          I speak of the central banks, who control the printing of money, and its activity over time. This might be the explanation you are looking for. Not sure what you are describing by “specie”.

          https://gainspainscapital.com/2021/02/19/got-inflation-the-fed-just-printed-another-100-billion-this-week/

          Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

          • #451438
            retired liberal
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            • Total Posts: 4,634

            The 5.9%  increase in Social Security. An underhanded way to enrich the health insurance companies, which will get most of that 5.9%.

            We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
            The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
            Don't forget that the S in IoT stands for Security.
            Beware of geeks bearing GIFs.

          • #451540
            eridani
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            • Total Posts: 10,976

            How does what they actually do impact the money supply?  I’m not entirely sure how myself.

            Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

            • #451558
              Mr. Mickeys Mom
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 6,979

              I said central banks control the printing of  money.

              This stuff is not made easy for anyone seeking to understand, so I know this stuff is not discussed with the American public clearly. I think that’s on purpose.

              But, for your information, these “central” banks impact monetary policy and are also referred to as the Federal Reserve Banks. The Federal Reserve, unlike most central banks, is semi-decentralized. At the national level, it is run by a Board of Governors, consisting of seven members appointed by the President of the United States and confirmed by the Senate. Appointments are for 14-year terms. They, through their Board of Governors, make decisions each year to destroy money that has been printed or create more money… This is under their purview.

              Any new Federal Reserve Notes are a result of the Board of Governors decision as a group of banks. They order the Treasury’s Bureau of Engraving and Printing. They decide to distribute new currency for the U.S. Treasury Department, which prints it. The actual agency that prints money is the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

               

              Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

              • #451779
                eridani
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 10,976

                –coins and printed money are such a small percentage of our total money supply?  Out of total SocSec, pension and annuity income of ~$45K, I only need from $800 to $1000 a year in cash, mainly for marijuana and laundromats, which means that nearly 90% of my income is spent via checks and credit cards.  Not sure how to actual define the money supply, and was hoping you could help out here.  As far as I can tell, most of it is electronic blips on a storage device somewhere.  How does the Federal Reserve affect that?

                Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

            • #451570
              Voltairine
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              • Total Posts: 2,310

              Central bank and/or treasury prints the M0, coins and notes in circulation. Those are tiny fraction of M1, which is created in private banks by double accounting, ie making out of thin air entries of positive and negative money when a bank gives out a loan. As there’s positive interest on top of the double accounting, that means there’s always more negative money aka debt than positive money to pay the debt, and more and more accounting tricks are needed to create new positive money to cover for previously created negative money, but of course positive money can be created only by creating also negative money – with interest on top. That’s the mathematical structure of a ponzi, a system than needs to growing exponetially in order to avoid collapsing.

              The excess pozi debt of M1, and M2, M3 etc. could be cancelled by systemical bankruptcy of systemic centers of negative money – the “too big to fail” banksters. Central bank prevents that by so called “Quantitative Easing” (QE), to keep the ponzi going on for a while more.  Through complexx processes QE is linked to US bonds and ballooning of foreign debt, which also can’t continue indefinitely, as other players are gradually getting rid of petrodollar, and dollar is losing it’s status as reserve currency. Emergence of Bitcoin etc. crypto also undermine the dollar status as reserve currency.

              Aloha!

              • #451780
                eridani
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 10,976

                Hope Mr Mickey’s Mom reads this.

                Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

                • #451825
                  Mr. Mickeys Mom
                  Moderator
                  • Total Posts: 6,979

                  It explains the creation of money out of “thin air” (electronic) to central banks. It coincides with the thing I’ve decided to do this year, which some of my family does not understand, but that’s okay. I’ve begun investing in Bitcoin. As small as it is, I see why BTC is going where it’s going. I have no faith in what backs the U.S. dollar, which is circulating more debt and the push to fund the war machine.

                  Our U.S. Treasury can “print” and make this money available to central banks for ZERO percent… out.of.thin.air.

                  Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

                  • #451850
                    Voltairine
                    Participant
                    • Total Posts: 2,310

                    has been backed by the war machine and imperialism, Iraq war was a petrodollar war, response to Saddam trying to sell oil other currencies.

                    In the current situation Bitcoin functions as a store of value, and it’s important part of the process. The main issue is the promise and potential of blockchain tech, decentralized peer-to-peer social ledger which can replace the centralized bureaucracy of the class society model, which is administrated by the class of scribes.

                    My own interest in blockchain tech arose from interest in UBI, and programmable (aka Turing complete) blockchain enables socially owned UBI co-op, where money is created directly as UBI, self-governed by members of the money creation and distribution co-op through innovative means of governance that the new tech enables.

                    Aloha!

                  • #455546
                    eridani
                    Participant
                    • Total Posts: 10,976

                    https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/so-what-is-money-anyway/

                    Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

          • #455527
            ArtfromArk
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            • Total Posts: 1,628

            I think Eridani meant “cash”. And some of us use it more than others. I have to spend around $200/month in cash just to recharge my mass transit card. And some of the local supermarkets and other businesses prefer cash, as they don’t have to pay credit card fees.

            “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #451433
      lownslow
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      • Total Posts: 1,103

      Such bull,its more ‘othering’ of vax hesitant. How bout a seperate category for fat?  driving too fast? High blood pressure? Slippery slope

       

       

    • #451484
      surrealAmerican
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      • Total Posts: 1,111

      Yes, they are making a bad choice, but every human being makes some bad choices about their health. If a bad choice makes a person uninsurable, eventually we will all be uninsurable.

    • #451568
      jerry611
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      • Total Posts: 1,338

      You open a can of worms with this argument.

      Where do you draw the line? Should people who smoke, drink, eat unhealthy foods, or engage in risky behaviors have reduced access to healthcare or pay more for such care?

      Premiums are going to go up for a number of reasons, most of which have nothing to do with vaccines. Healthcare costs throughout the system continue to rise regardless for the reasons a person seeks care. The pandemic could end tomorrow and the costs still go up. They’ve been going up for decades.

      • #451831
        retired liberal
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,634

        That’s where a lot of the money goes.

        We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
        The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
        Don't forget that the S in IoT stands for Security.
        Beware of geeks bearing GIFs.

      • #455487
        snot
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,379

        @jerry611: if they’re right in avoiding vaccination, then if they’re in a separate pool, they should end up paying less – not a punishment at all; rather, a structure that allows everyone to live with the consequences of their own choices.

        Destruction is easy; creation is hard, but more interesting.

    • #455799
      Average Gazoo
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 613

      No pandemic has been tamed with vaccines alone and the vaccine we have for this one certainly are stopping it.

      Those who buy into the Pharma narrative are helping fill hospitals and crush the working poor.

      To be clear: Sterilizing (infection-blocking) vaccines would be a great tool and if what we had were sterilizing then current arguments for mandatory vaccination would make sense but the vaccines for Covid19 only limit symptoms and their efficacy fades rapidly.

      The singular emphasis on vaccination offers NOTHING for the vaccinated. It pretends that the only thing that people can do or need to do is get vaccinated but vaccinated people get covid then what? They played by the rules — isolated, vaccinated, masked up but they got covid anyway. Don’t they deserve effective treatment? Wouldn’t effective treatment following EVERY positive test, symptomatic or not, be the right thing to do from a public health stand point?

      Merck and Pfizer had the FDA calling ivermectin “horse dewormer” and mocking the sick and desperate while Merck and Pfizer got their own versions of ivermectin-like protease inhibitors patented. They blocked off-label uses of cheap widely-available and proven safe drugs for the last 18 months so that they alone could charge $700+ per patient. THAT helped fill up hospitals and contributed to tens of thousands of deaths.

      If saying that person who got vaccinated and then reported adverse effects (Clapton, Dore, etc) are “anti-vax” then by the same standard isn’t a person who doubts the studies on ivermectin and fluvoximine “anti-treatment”?

      Be the Change

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