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Home Main Forums General Discussion Re: The DNC Lawsuit and Democrats that want to dismiss it.

  • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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    Re: The DNC Lawsuit and Democrats that want to dismiss it.

    Going around in many other places, I find Democratic Partisans trying to justify their lack of coverage or care about the DNC Primary corruption case.

    Where they would put up this ridiculous deflection and even quote: http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

    Bottom line: The “scandalous” DNC emails were hacked by people working with the Kremlin, then misrepresented online by Russian propagandists to gullible fools who never checked the dates of the documents. And the media, which in the flurry of breathless stories about the emails would occasionally mention that they were all dated after any rational person knew the nomination was Clinton’s, fed into the misinformation.

    In the real world, here is what happened: Clinton got 16.9 million votes in the primaries, compared with 13.2 million for Sanders. The rules were never changed to stop him, even though Sanders supporters started calling for them to be changed as his losses piled up.

    My response would have been as follows:

    That is a laughable response.

    Bottom line:  Donors gave money to the DNC expecting them to be faithful to their charter/bylaws where they should be neutral when it comes to their candidates.    Given that the information provided is valid, its validity does not change no matter the messenger.

    Dismissing verifiable information just because one does not like it, and attacking the messenger is childish.  I could care less if the information comes from Russia, point of contention is, Democrats attack the source because they do not want to deal with the content.

    Not just that, the lawyer even mentioned saying that they can return to the point where a group in a smoke-filled room can decide who their candidate is.   If that is not corrupt, I don’t know what is.

    The fact that the DNC condones such a thing is antithetical to the sanctity of elections.  That shows that they are unbearably corrupt.  What this does, is state that letting people choose on their own is unimportant to them, and they will install insiders.

    What the lawsuit argues is that the DNC will choose their candidates with no regard to the will of the voters.

    Even the argument of the lawyer to dismiss the suit where it says that Donors know that the DNC will have a preferred candidate and donors should not have any expectation of neutrality is disgusting.

    The lawsuit is about asking for Neutrality from the DNC, in which even the Lawyer admits that the DNC is not by virtue of their argument.

    If the DNC does not clear this up one would have a hard time believing that their votes count during primaries.  Where the DNC will just set up some Corpocrat, and just insult everyone else by saying get-in-line, you have nowhere else to go.  The issue for them is of course, people have found other venues, and they may fade in to irrelevancy.

    In any case, how very authoritarian of them with the immediate deflection, and dismissal of fairness in voting.  Let My People Vote indeed, the irony is hilarious.

    If this suit gets thrown out, I will probably be unable to vote for a Democrat again, as I would consider them an installation of the establishment.  The bastion of the old guard who are unwilling to change and comfortable with how things are.

    If such is the case, the Democratic Party becomes an institution that has to fade to irrelevancy.

    Passionate Progressive, Land of Enchantment, Katashi and 58 othersHaikugal, daleanime, libodem, Babel 17, ThinkingANew, Aerows, ChiciB1, Koko, ronRonnie, Ohio Barbarian, HeartoftheMidwest, twenty, TIME TO PANIC, ccinamon, VenusFT, ElfinWilde, mak3cats, disillusioned73, kath, Salemcourt, xynthee, PADemD, 3FingerBrown, DesertRat2015, slay, joentokyo, Rocker, Betty Karlson, madfloridian, beltanefauve, HomerRamone, Fuddnik, Testudo, hopemountain, graycat, snot, bbgrunt, h-32, Peacebird, ThouArtThat, arendt, Utopian Leftist, historylovr, baran, Baba OhReally, jopacaco, Scuba, MistaP, NV Wino, Mnpaul, Enthusiast, Segami, incognito, elias39, broiles, Marym625, ZimInSeattle, mmonk like this

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    • mmonk (1317 posts)
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      1. Recommended and thanks.

      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        4. I was thinking of actually adding to that more.

        Where their justification is completely false.

        When looking at the details of the case, some of the actions taken by the DNC are of no relation to Russia whatsoever.

        • Colluding with the media with providing questions for Hillary Clinton
        • Adding the count of Super Delegates, even before voting happened to create an artificial lead to dissuade people from voting thinking it was hopeless.
          • Even Sanders mentioned that such a thing is unfair since it can directly contradict the will of the voters.

        The second one in particular, one does not even have to go in to the emails to see that happening in real time.

        • mmonk (1317 posts)
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          7. Yes. It really can't be separated.

    • Marym625 (21816 posts)
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      2. On The Daily Radical!

      Thank you. Well stated.

      And thank you @mmonk for starting the conversation

      https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/i-have-a-question-i-think-needs-to-be-asked/

       

      Oi245KQ-1 "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        6. Thanks.

    • broiles (757 posts)
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      3. Why then even have primaries?

      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        5. Exactly! If this case is dismissed…

        It is proof positive that Democratic Primaries are meaningless.

        It basically goes back to the smoke filled room of insiders picking their candidate, without the artifice of the primaries.

      • mmonk (1317 posts)
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        8. Yes. Taxpayers would be on the hook for a meaningless show

        and meaningless votes.

        • Flygirl (2633 posts)
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          9. If that is the case..then we the people need to make a serious case

          against our tax dollars being used in Democratic Party Primaries..and take it all the way up in our state legislatures! En mass!

          cut off the snakes head once and for all!!

          According to the DNC I am a Wife of a Taco Bowl Member!
          • mmonk (1317 posts)
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            11. Yep. That might wake them up.

          • broiles (757 posts)
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            16. +1

          • Beebee (1358 posts)
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            25. Precisely. Taxation without representation! no.

            "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
    • Enthusiast (8384 posts)
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      10. Recommended to max! Unbearably corrupt.

      "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        28. That is exactly it.

        Then we get these arguments saying this is not corrupt and they are within their rights to do so.

        That is a WTF moment that I get more often than I am willing to see.

    • MistaP (5331 posts)
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      12. that's like saying Lance Armstrong couldn't have cheated because he won so often

      besides it’s Kurt Eichenwald, who’s less sane than that Kony guy

      they called El Mozote a forged Russian plant, too

      http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        29. Yep!

    • Scuba (3124 posts)
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      13. The lawsuit matters, but the result doesn't. The DNC's last hurrah is over.

      Rank-and-file Democrats are no longer going to stand for corrupt leaders.

      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        30. They better hope so…

        I mean, their shenanigans are ensuing that they lose a generation of voters.  DNC usually relies heavily on the younger block of voters and independents to win elections.  What they are doing is ensuring that those specific demographics tend to watch and get their news from YouTube and other alternative to Cable news sources.

        They are not going to reach those individuals at all by putting all their eggs in that basket.  What they have effectively did, is insult a generation of voters, who are very socially connected elsewhere in non-traditional media.  Individuals who helped out Sanders for free on the web.

        That is something that is harder to control, and they decided to stick a finger towards them.  So you may be right.

      • Enthusiast (8384 posts)
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        40. I will no longer stand for a corrupt system, like one that includes

        Super Delegates.  

        I was such a Democrat. I’m sure I was a source of irritation to non-Democrats. For over 60 years! Now, I’m not a Democrat. How can I be? Now that I know for sure that we are not the “good guys”.

        "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church
    • Utopian Leftist (203 posts)
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      14. Amen!

      This is our fundamental political process that the DNC is tampering with. The people have no right to a fair and impartial primary? How is that any different than saying the people have no right to vote . . . to choose their own candidates . . . democratically?

      Essentially, what the DNC is arguing in this case, is that America has no right to Democracy. Period. And were I the judge, I’d state so much, flagrantly, and in Debbie Wasserman-Shulz’s poodle-dootie face!

      The beatdown Hillary was handed had nothing to do with Bernie Bros, Russia, a VRWC, Comey, the FBI, the media, sexism, racism or any other ism you can think of. It was a referendum on neoliberalism. It is your legacy, Obama. It’s Clinton fatigue born of endless scandals. It’s war and prison for profit. It’s criminality that dresses itself up like saintliness and looks down its nose at its victims. ~ farleftlib
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        31. Exactly! I agree.

        This is why this has been so important to me even last year.

        It was the main reason I could not bring myself to vote Democratic last year.  The thing was, I would never have voted Republican to begin with, it should have been an easy decision last year.  This made it so that they reached an unacceptable level of corruption that I could not, would not vote for.

      • Enthusiast (8384 posts)
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        41. That's not fair to poodles.

        "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church
        • Utopian Leftist (203 posts)
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          43. Sorry, I may have miscommunicated.

          “Poodle-do” is a fairly well-known (and unfortunately for Poodles, much maligned) style from the fashionably-disastrous 1980’s. However, I was actually comparing her frightening visage to poodle SHIT. (Though I suspect upon reflection that I might better have spelled it doodie; than dootie? Plus I was reaching for a pun on the “doo,” as in “hairdo,” but I suppose that didn’t work, either. Sigh. I am going to strike “stand-up comedy” from my bucket list, right this very moment.)

          The beatdown Hillary was handed had nothing to do with Bernie Bros, Russia, a VRWC, Comey, the FBI, the media, sexism, racism or any other ism you can think of. It was a referendum on neoliberalism. It is your legacy, Obama. It’s Clinton fatigue born of endless scandals. It’s war and prison for profit. It’s criminality that dresses itself up like saintliness and looks down its nose at its victims. ~ farleftlib
          • Enthusiast (8384 posts)
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            45. You don't have to be sorry. I was only kidding.

            "The NSA’s capability at any time could be turned around on the American people, and no American would have any privacy left, such is the capability to monitor everything. There would be no place to hide."  Frank Church
    • Green Dog Dem (3276 posts)
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      15. Thing is, a DNC implosion would likely usher in one-party repuke rule.

      At least until we could get an actual left party together. But it’s frightening to contemplate how much damage they could do even in a short time. 

      Aloha! KamaAina in the hale (house).
      • hopemountain (1934 posts)
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        18. don't forget many of us demexited to the independent party and not

        the green. people conveniently forget we do have more than 2 parties. people want to think this – but forget that the mass demexit voters went independent or green or other. in my state, more of us went independent. same as in cali. if a new progressive dem party is started, then REAL progressives will likely vote either new 3rd party or independent – or green. there are many options. after the betrayal of both the dnc and gop of the working class, anything can happen.

        "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth ....
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        32. It's sad, but yes, I do see that too.

        Which is why in my view, going after this systemic corruption within the Democratic party is extremely important.

        Because I believe, that if they do not get their act together, we will have Republicans ruling for a long while.  The Democrats are not a sufficient alternative or even an opposition party at this time.  It is because they tend to agree on most economic and corporate issues while making the rest of us fight it out in wedge issues.

        This is why they promote wedge issues the most.  Because that is what divides us.

      • MistaP (5331 posts)
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        35. yeah, they might take all three branches of government!

        the DNC has imploded: it’s lost everything and the only way to evade the GOP is to hold them responsible for crimes

        http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
        • Green Dog Dem (3276 posts)
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          42. In state after state after state.

          Aloha! KamaAina in the hale (house).
    • Robot X (104 posts)
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      17. I for one welcome our new political overlords

      I mean who wouldn’t enjoy the Queen of Corruption and the Princess of Pay Day Loans making decisions that will affect my family’s economic well being for generations? Drop in a war or two and we’re golden!

      • hopemountain (1934 posts)
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        19. fuck that shit.

        do what you want. won’t work for me.

        "economic and environmental justice is spiritual work." ~ tom b. k. goldtooth ....
        • Fawke Em (3609 posts)
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          27. I think robot was being sarcastic.

              
    • GloriaMundi (551 posts)
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      20. First of all…

      …citing the number of votes for Clinton vs Sanders as proof that she won, when the contention is that she won due to the DNC fraud, is itself a fraudulent argument and one that begs the question.

      Second, the emails revealed the fraud.  He can wave his hands about dates all he wants, those emails have been gone over with a fine tooth comb by thousands of people and analysts and the fraud and collusion are clear:  threatening reporters who did not kiss Clinton’s ass in their reporting; giving Clinton debate questions before the debate; hatching schemes to make Bernie look bad such as implying he might be a (gasp!) atheist; the list goes on.

      Third, by taking money from voters under the impression that the DNC would follow its own fucking bylaws, and by assuring said voters that they were indeed following those bylaws which said they must be impartial — by making those misrepresentations and then taking our money, they engaged in fraud.

      Now the suit doesn’t even get into the tricky-dicky sleight of hand whereby money sent to the DNC was distributed to state Democratic committees, only to magically reappear in the Hillary Victory Fund.  The judge, though, is asking questions about it.  They might be surprised by a criminal charge as that BS was obviously designed to get around the campaign finance laws.  They did it because Hillary needed more money to compete with Bernie.  It also allowed her to claim that she was working for down ticket Dems, and that Bernie was not doing so.  But the fact is, the money went right back into her own campaign, starving down ticket Dems of much needed funds and arguably contributing to the Democrats’ epic losses across the country.  More fraud.

      • mmonk (1317 posts)
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        21. Yes, the judge seemed quite prepared in the hearing.

      • Two way street (1973 posts)
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        24. My state Democratic Party leaders answered no questions about the amount and use

        of the Hillary Clinton Fund through an email, return to sender, in which I told them that I would not donate to the state party until I received information about how my state’s part of the Hillary Victory Fund was dispersed among candidates.   There was not response.  There may have been no accountability about the Fund in any of the other 32 states either.

         

        Draft Bernie for a people's party
    • TRex (2320 posts)
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      22. Fuck the DNC.

      Until further notice.

      We can thank the rich for one thing - times are changing due to the silent depression in the working class. I don't think the rich will be happy with the changes, but they forced it upon themselves through greed and avarice.
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        33. Well, in some ways, I still think like Bernie.

        Where, it may be best to work within the system still.  It does not mean that I do not support working outside of it as well.

        I think it should be a multi-prong approach.

        Besides, for me, there really is no conflict, as I tend to think it best to work within the primaries, and see if it still works.  If it does not, well I can still vote against them and vote for someone else in the general election.

        That is it for me, simplified.

    • joentokyo (376 posts)
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      23. Ted Soqui is the kind of dumbass that believes his own bullshit.

      “America has the best politicians money can buy.”~Will Rogers  
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        34. Yep, and look at the hate.

        It’s ridiculous that he does not even see how he does not make sense, and the breaks in his logic.

    • TIME TO PANIC (533 posts)
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      26. K & R! n/t

      "We Tortured Some Folks" - Barack Obama
    • Ohio Barbarian (3254 posts)
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      36. A most excellent and accurate description of our recent history.

      Just as I think that Trump’s narcissistic, arrogant incompetence will be his downfall(Hey Donald! You outdid Shakespeare’s tragic heroes! Instead of having just one tragic flaw, you have at least three! Be Proud!), I think the Third Way Dems will ultimately lose their political power because of their own arrogance alone.

      Their legal argument in this lawsuit has arrogance worthy of a prerevolutionary French aristocrat. They really think they know best because they are sucking up all that donor cash.

      Which makes them not only despicable, but crazy.

      "Identity politics is the last refuge of the politically incompetent."  --Me, with a hat tip to Isaac Asimov  
      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        38. Thank you. I agree it's crazy.

        In another thread, I mentioned that these establishment politicians act like “Too Big to Fail” institutions, where, they are now propped up by the organization, even though they are already established, and as such those who are struggling to gain some traction are put aside.

        It really just hurts the party as a whole in gaining any sort of hold locally.  The old guard suck up most of the resources, enriching themselves and their cronies to keep themselves standing.

        Well, I guess they can say that they bring in the corporate cash, which is why they deserve it.

        Ah well.

    • ronRonnie (516 posts)
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      37. I am SOOOOOOOOOO tired of…

      Russiagate.  Talk about a nothingburger.

      Bottom Line:  I don’t care if Osama bin Hitler “hacked” DNC/Hillary emails.  The emails were real, were they not?  Those emails detailed the corruption.  That’s all that matters.

       

      Bring the Dims down.  Bern it down.

      • Xyzse (2534 posts)
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        39. That's pretty much the gist of my response elsewhere too.

        https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/if-you-have-nothing-to-hide-you-welcome-the-investigation/#post-635540

        The “Russian Hacking”, which then got rebranded as “Russian Influencing” is a moving goalpost that has not shown much credibility thus far.  Like I said, it is like latching on to the most tenuous of leads and hoping for solid proof of collusion, while the world crumbles around us.  So yeah, go for the investigation, I just rather concentrate on something that I think would help more.

        My position in regards to investigation is that I am not against it.  I just dislike how it is being used as a deflecting tactic.

        Even if I find it pointless, there is not much that can be done until the investigation winds down and they provide their findings.  Most of the investigations provided show no definitive proof.

        Which is why I think it is a waste of time looking at for now.  I’d rather concentrate on other things.

        So yes, I absolutely agree with you.

    • Scott Crowder (371 posts)
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      44. If this gets thrown out, the judge who does so needs to be executed for treason.

      Plain and simple.