GummyBearz (55 posts)September 13, 2017 at 6:24 am
Report: Russia proposed full normalization with US under Trump
Wonder if this is still possible, or ever was at all3FingerBrown, dreamnightwind, ozoneman and 5 othersThinkingANew, Pastiche, Gryneos, ZimInSeattle, djean111 like this
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
1 week ago #6
ZimInSeattle (1301 posts) (Reply to original post) September 13, 2017 at 6:52 am
1. "Wonder if this is still possible, or ever was at all"
Not if Killary and her neocon buddies get their way.Proudly #DemExited & #LeftOut | "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK | Bernie would have WON! |“Fascism is a result of the failure of the left to provide an alternative” - Leon Trotsky | Sanders/Gabbard 2020 (PPP)
Fasttense (1476 posts) (Reply to original post) September 13, 2017 at 7:15 am
2. I doubt anything with Putin would be "normal".
Since we are playing tit for tat with Putin right now, why do we still allow RT?
This is a very strange diplomacy.
sadoldgirl (1742 posts) (Reply to Fasttense - post #2) September 13, 2017 at 10:00 am
4. I would say anything under Trump would not be "normal".
If I listen to the warmongering M$M and the neocons, I must say
that Putin appears to be the adult in the room.
spud demon (1009 posts) (Reply to original post) September 13, 2017 at 7:28 am
3. Hitting the reset button?
I’m not sure who it would help, other than Putin.
Obama supposedly tried, and Russia ended up backsliding from rule-of-law to annexing territory from neighbors who don’t pay the gas bill.Cubs, Google+, Weird Al, BMW
whispers (1360 posts) (Reply to spud demon - post #3) September 13, 2017 at 1:47 pm
leveymg (3009 posts) (Reply to spud demon - post #3) September 13, 2017 at 2:05 pm
6. The Russians might say that a third of their territories were annexed after 1990
The Maidan coup in 2014 may have been the final straw at which point Putin started to push back. Things deteriorated rapidly after that. That was while the US was still hard at work “liberating” Syria.
btw: Obama was US President during all that.
spud demon (1009 posts) (Reply to leveymg - post #6) September 13, 2017 at 3:43 pm
7. Yeah I have no illusion that our own masters are different
still don’t see the point of them getting friendly with Putin. And I do think Crimea was totally about money. If Ukraine had paid for the gas, he would have held off for a while.
Especially now with Trump in office, we’ll get along best if we minimize contact. But I will still watch RT.
p.s. I mentioned Obama before you did.Cubs, Google+, Weird Al, BMW
ThinkingANew (1289 posts) (Reply to spud demon - post #7) September 13, 2017 at 5:13 pm
9. Nope. It's pretty simple really
The region was always close to Russia. Sevastopol was one of the most important cities and had special status (like Moscow).
Everything that happened was a reaction to the overthrow of the government in Kiev and the roaming bands of neo-nazi thugs that were allowed to engorge themselves to make all this happen. The deaths in Odessa (~100 burned alive) scared the crap out of people there, it was all over the news. When people are afraid they look for security. At the same time that the first militia set up the Putsch was rushing goons on trains down to put down any resistance after what happened in the east. But they did not get there fast enough.
Despite our propagandized reporting Crimean’s wanted this. The first “militia” were actually real local militia but it did not take much for the assembly there to ask Russian military already there to “help” and of course Russia obliged.
There is a history behind this I challenge anyone believing the “narratives” to learn about. There was a struggle and Crimea voted once already for independence and essentially Ukraine “annexed” Crimea during the banditry years over there.
Ultimately it was an incredible mis-calculation that was not anticipated by those provoking the overthrow."(modern) newspapers publish nothing more than “weaponized text"" “When you read a newspaper article, you are reading weaponized text that is designed to affect a person just like you." Julian Assange
spud demon (1009 posts) (Reply to ThinkingANew - post #9) September 13, 2017 at 5:39 pm
10. Russia settled Crimea, then they gave it up at some point
as part of some strategic negotiation. Now Putin has taken it back. Of course it was populated by Russians, because it was a Russian military outpost during the Soviet period.
Sort of reminds me of US and Guantanamo Bay. Somehow we established an infinite lease with a corrupt past Cuban government at a bargain-basement rate. And they can’t make us leave.
It seems like you’re convinced Putin did it because it was right and noble. I don’t think he went from KGB agent to President by being a sensitive, caring individual. I’m sure that if the Ukraine-Russia relationship had been profitable, he would have let it continue.
This is all my personal assessment. I’m not calling anyone a “neo nazi thug”, just don’t see a hero in this.Cubs, Google+, Weird Al, BMW
ThinkingANew (1289 posts) (Reply to spud demon - post #10) September 13, 2017 at 6:54 pm
Just first hand understanding.
I have relatives and friends who lived through it, was there before and after recent events, and know the politics and history (including the first attempt to install one of our own into leadership there)."(modern) newspapers publish nothing more than “weaponized text"" “When you read a newspaper article, you are reading weaponized text that is designed to affect a person just like you." Julian Assange
Koko (3778 posts) (Reply to leveymg - post #6) September 13, 2017 at 5:10 pm