Reported Covid Deaths Have Been Exaggerated by a Factor of 18, According to the British Government

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    • #467294
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 24,441

      These numbers come from the British equivalent of a Freedom of Information Act request to the National Office of Statistics that was released just over a month ago, according to British Doctor John Campbell. Let’s take a look at the numbers, which are only from England and Wales, but can be reasonably applied to the rest of the United Kingdom and the United States as well.

      The numbers cover all 4 quarters of 2020 and the first 3 quarters of 2021:

      Total deaths with Covid per death certificates: 174,233

      Total deaths from Covid with no pre-existing health conditions: 9,400

      According to my handy dandy calculator, 174,233 divided by 9,400 equals 18.5.

      But wait! There’s more! The average age of the 9,400 was 81.5 years old.

      Now let’s look at the good old USA. According to the CDC, from a source called WebMD in a story published 11/22/2021(link), there have been 771,000 Covid deaths in this country. Divide that by 18.5, and I get 41,675. Out of a population of 350 million, that’s a 0.01% death rate for people without serious pre-existing health conditions, and assuming the average age is about 80 here as it is in Britain, that means that Covid cannot remotely be called a deadly disease for healthy younger and middle-aged people.

      In fact, it’s no more than just another common cold, and always has been.

      So that’s it, then. Our government, our media, and our pharmaceutical industry have been brazenly lying to us since the beginning of this thing and many of them are continuing to lie to this day. Why?

      From an authoritarian, oligarchical government’s perspective, it’s an exercise in social control and engineering as old as the Republic—Scare the shit out of people, and they’ll do anything you want.

      The capitalist pharmaceutical industry’s incentive is obvious—massive profits. The corporate media’s incentive, besides keeping their Big Pharma advertisers’ happy(when was the last time you saw a corporate news show that wasn’t at least partly brought to you by Big Pharma? And yes, they subsidize PBS and NPR as well), but they get more views and clicks when scared people are constantly tuning in for the latest dose of scary news. So profit again, in addition to serving as stenographers to power.

      This tells me that all the lockdowns, all the closures, all the behavioral modifications such as masking and social distancing, were never necessary for reasons of public health, and they certainly aren’t now. As for the vaccines, my personal opinion is that if one is elderly, or suffers from a pre-existing health condition ranging from obesity to cancer, then one should seriously consider getting the first round of vaccines, anyway.

      But mandates? Punishing the unvaxxed? That’s sheer mass hysteria in support of authoritarianism, which is not why my ancestor fought in George Washington’s Continental Army throughout the American Revolution.

      If you want to see the video where I first learned these figures, here it is. Start at about 3 minutes in and watch for just a few minutes if you just can’t stand Jimmy Dore for some reason. I like him, and enjoyed the whole 13 minutes or so:

      I think it’s time to stop the panic, to stop demanding the censorship of skeptics to the establishment narrative, to stop hating on the unvaccinated, and to just relax on this issue and stop believing everything the self-proclaimed “reliable news sources” tell you.

      And for all of our sakes, don’t let your own ego refuse to admit that you were hoodwinked if you succumbed to some or all of the fearmongering propaganda with which we’ve been barraged for the last two years. We’ve all been fooled by somebody sometime. The thing to do is to admit it, move on, and try to do better the next time some establishment figure tries to fool you, for it will happen again, sooner rather than later. It’s what our fascistic government does.

      Thanks for reading, good day, and good luck.

      Crossposted from Substack. 

       

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #467298
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,494

      Recently, she appeared in an interview with Fox News’ Bret Baier, attempt to BS her way out of answering a direct question as to how many deaths can be directly attributed to omicron. Rather than say, “no”, she gives the most convoluted word salad in response to Baier, answering – in doing so – a question which she wanted to be asked rather than the question Baier asked her. Watch:

      Also, ask yourself what would be her motivation against being direct and honest? Because, in theory, if the data fail to support the scorched earth response which the government has followed and which has financially benefitted vaccine manufacturers, then why should that failure to support make a difference to the CDC Director?

      She is a public official, not a vaccine manufacturing employee. The data is the data, collected to inform officials as to how best to protect public health. What the data is NOT is propaganda to be deployed and retracted selectively, in service to corporate profits.

      By the way, in yesterday’s Boston Globe, there was apparently an interview with her (behind a paywall) in which she characterized her critics simply as “naysayers”. LOL

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #467299
      Utopian Leftist
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      • Total Posts: 1,092

      I don’t think you’ll encounter much resistance to these thoughts here at this board.

      Out in the rest of the world? Let’s just say that ignorance is strong in the force right now. I have observed that even people who normally think for themselves seem to be willingly brainwashed when it comes to this subject. Twain said it better than I can:

      It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled.

      ~ Mark Twain

      I have one quibble:

      all the behavioral modifications such as masking and social distancing, were never necessary for reasons of public health, and they certainly aren’t now

      I would argue that masking and social distancing are relatively harmless and that they did help slow the spread of this illness to people who were already more vulnerable, due to health issues or age. Which makes them a good thing. Masking may not have been “necessary,” to public health but it didn’t hurt and may have contributed more to public health than we even know.

      “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti
      "Given the choice between a Republican and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voter will choose a Republican every time." ~ Harry Truman

    • #467304
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 9,236

      Cause of death is the last ailment that caused the death. For an extreme example let’s say someone has been shot, but not fatally, and taken to the hospital. In the hospital, that person has a heart attack and dies. Cause of death will be heart attack even though the gunshot probably caused the heart attack.

      Someone with a heart condition contracts COVID, goes into the hospital, is placed on a ventilator and subsequently dies. The cause of death is listed as COVID. They died while being treated for COVID, not heart disease.

      Basically the reporting protocol needs to be revised.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

      • #467309
        HassleCat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,897

        It is disingenuous to claim the 18x exaggeration due to possible co-morbidities. What gets you is what gets you, regardless of what might have got you. If you have a heart attack and crash your car, the cause of death is still the car crash. I am unpleasantly surprised by the tortuous logic used to justify a particular argument, not to mention the astounding conclusions squeezed from one another. I agree that the death figures are wrong, but some of these claims of how wrong they are and why they are wrong are just paranoia.

        • #467316
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 24,441

          That’s the sort of smear liberals use these days–smear the character of the mental health or acuity of the critic. It’s not persuasive except to those who already believe as you do, so why bother?

          Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

          The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

          • #467323
            HassleCat
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 8,897

            Do you accept the entire sequence of convoluted logic and deceptive assumptions used to arrive at the 18x figure? If so, you’re buying into someone’s paranoia. Are you so skeptical of government that you believe literally anything that seems to discredit government? IDK. The whole Covid discussion has devolved so far that I can’t tell who is lying vs. just getting carried away.

            • #467326
              Ohio Barbarian
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 24,441

              Your faith in government is touching, but misplaced. They’re lying to you most of the time. The thing is, most agencies actually do factually report things, but you have to dig for those reports. Our media is corrupt and refuses to report on anything that disagrees with their narrative if they think they can get away with it, and frequently lie in support of the government and of corporate interests, yet you still trust MSN, of all things.

              My source is the British government. I didn’t make the figures up. Neither did Dr. Campbell or Jimmy Dore.

              Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

              The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

              • #467331
                HassleCat
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 8,897

                My faith in government. Because I don’t believe the 18x figure, I have absolute faith in government? Possible but unlikely.

              • #467356
                Hobbit709
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 2,952

                but I have no faith in that claim either.

                I think the deaths from COVID are underreported.

                About a year ago, there was a statistical analysis of deaths reported to heart attack, pneumonia, and stroke that showed those categories as being 19% higher than the statistical average.

                SOMETHING is causing that 19% rise and I don’t think my faith or lack thereof in the government is doing that.

                I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

            • #467360
              Mr. Mickeys Mom
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 7,645

              When I worked with engineers a few decades ago, I used the reliable source for understanding the market for medical devices. To do this, I went to National Health Statistics Reports, which falls under the NIH and CDC. These reports provide data summaries, analyses of health topics, and information on methods or measurement issues. The National Health System of the UK has a similar database. The facts about under or over-reporting diagnosis should bear out in the US, but I haven’t seen anyone report on it. Does that mean the UK’s source is bullshit? I don’t think so.

              I have an added bonus of why I don’t think covid has been correctly reported for the same reason I see over-reporting of a patient’s episode of care when reimbursements are based on the three major DRG (diagnostic related group) that are coded in the record, along with CPT coding to indicate what the plan of care was in accordance with that code.

              The last I knew, the US healthcare delivery system allowed up to 3 DRG groups for a patient’s admission before discharge. If a patient who gets admitted with auto accident, resulting in a compound fracture of L femur develops a pulmonary embolism, the CPT coder is going to be sure to include pulmonary embolism, but the cause of that death was what? Not really the auto accident, and possibly not even the fact that the patient’s care missed preventing the embolism. The insurance company needs to tie reimbursement costs to the PE, I guarantee you. It’s been a natural decision (not necessarily the right decision) to shift around some coding for reimbursement’s sake, so I have no problem in recognizing an over-use of covid in causes of death.

              The healthcare delivery system is manipulated every single day by NIH’s classification system of what killed the patient, but what reimburses the industry by treatment codes.

               

              Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

              • #467362
                HassleCat
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 8,897

                The reporting is wrong, but by 18x? Possible, but the assumptions included in the 18x conclusion are too sweeping.

              • #467363
                Ohio Barbarian
                Moderator
                • Total Posts: 24,441

                Amazing how the simple act of watching a video for oneself can kill off incorrect conclusions based upon a preconceived framework.

                Dr. Campbell said he had not seen these figures reported on BBC, Channel 4, Sky News, or any other mainstream British or American news sources. But it’s the raw data. To dismiss it just because, apparently, none of those capitalist news outlets chose to report on it does not mean it’s not a very real thing.

                Child Support can legally calculate the income of a parent who refused to provide any financial information by imputing the average income for a profession or occupation within a general metropolitan area from raw statistics provided by the US Dept. of Labor. It can only be disputed by a parent going to court and proving that the data was incorrectly applied to him or her individually.

                I thought that the British Office of Statistics was at least as reliable a source for raw data as the US Department of Labor is. Those figures are put together by very working class government employees who gather the data firsthand, just by counting different things and then correlating the numbers. It’s basic set math.

                Whether the M$M chooses to talk about it or not doesn’t make it any less real.

                Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

                The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

              • #467374
                jbnw
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 8,646

                The challenge is that coronavirus has been ridiculously politicized globally to the point it’s very hard to get anyone to trust anybody on coronavirus.

      • #467318
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 24,441

        Suppose a really dangerous disease gets released from the melting Arctic tundra or something, something as bad as smallpox or plague. Since our government so egregiously lied to us about Covid, how many tens of millions of Americans won’t believe them when they’re actually telling the truth about how dangerous it is?

         

        Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

        The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #467329
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,731

      @hasslecat:

      The real paranoia has been created by our government and

      its health institutions. Clearly “deaths from Covid” have been

      vastly overstated, after all hospitals profit from Covid cases.

      The media love it as well, since they profit from it too. It is

      the usual: Cui bono?!

    • #467337
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,494

      “I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of ‘people dying of COVID’.

      “So, the case definition is very simplistic. It means – at the time of death – it was a ‘COVID positive’ diagnosis.

      “So, that means, that if you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death.

      “It means, technically even if you died of clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it’s still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who’s listed as a COVID death, that doesn’t mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of death. I hope that’s helpful.”

      Yes, it’s helpful in understanding that state and local governments are misreporting causes of death in those who have COVID. And instead of the word “simplistic,” I think a better word is “misleading”.

      By a factor of 18? I don’t know, but why would Dr. Ezike publicly on camera state clearly that causes of death are being misreported, that deaths from COVID are being inflated, unless the truth is at least that bad?

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #467368
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 24,441

        Someone wanted to know wy the cause of death for a man who had been murdered in a drive-by shooting was officially Covid. This lady gave an honest answer, and walked off the stage.

        Everyone should watch this video with an open mind. The math behind what Dr. Campbell explained just proves that she refused to lie and probably thought she was going to be in professional trouble for giving an honest answer at a press conference. I’m a bureaucrat, I know how that level of bureaucrats who can be canned for political reasons think.

        I don’t know what, if anything, happened to her career-wise. Regardless, what she said has been confirmed by a British governmental department. And a government employee cites a government source and is accused of believing anything at all that is anti-government!

        It just makes no common sense.

        Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

        The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

        • #467404
          closeupready
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 3,494

          there are contraindications all over the place to the lies which the public are being told by health authorities.

          The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #467357
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 7,645
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