Reports shows that Russia interfered in Scottish vote, maybe Brexit too

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    • #339303
      RealityRedux
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 663

      The report was completed by March 2019 and released today, July 2020? No drama there, huh?

       

      https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/world/2020-07-21-reports-shows-that-russia-interfered-in-scottish-vote-maybe-brexit-too/

      21 JULY 2020 – 12:42 GUY FAULCONBRIDGE, LIZ PIPER AND SARAH YOUNG

      London — Russia meddled in the 2014 Scottish referendum and the British government failed to ask for a deep assessment of possible Kremlin-directed interference in the Brexit vote, the British parliament’s intelligence and security committee said.

      “There has been credible, open-source commentary suggesting that Russia undertook influence campaigns in relation to the Scottish independence referendum in 2014,” the report, which was finished in March 2019 but shelved until Tuesday, said.

      It said there were open-source indications that Russia sought to influence the Brexit campaign but that the British government had not sought deep evidence of meddling.

      The report cast Russia as a hostile power that posed a significant threat to the UK and the West across a range of fronts, from espionage and cyber-issues, to election meddling and laundering dirty money. “It appears that Russia considers the UK one of its top Western intelligence targets,” the report said.

      Formally RealityCheck

    • #339309
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,544

      @realityredux

      Hi rr,

      Hate to point out the obvious, this could all be planted stories to further the Vichy Dem narrative blaming Russia for everything.

      The real agents provocateur in Brexit and possibly Scotland were Cambridge Analytica.

      But since Cambridge Analytica used “Military Grade Offensive Software” we hear nothing more about that evil actor.

      Netflix documentary – The Great Hack

      Discussion with the documentary makers and participants

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #339315
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,767

      No hard evidence for these allegations of sinister Russian interference, no belief in said allegations on the part of this American citizen.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #339318
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,445

      Bwahahahaha!   Is that The Onion?

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

    • #339339
      jwirr
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,917

      Exactly why would Russia give a s–t about those two elections???

      jwirr

    • #339341
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,230

      And frankly – even if its absolutely true – I still don’t care.  We have bigger things to worry about.

    • #339343
      gordyfl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,791

      I couldn’t help but notice words like “suggesting”, “sought” and “appears”. Too vague.

    • #339356
      Maedhros
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 730

      So, there were online discussions of these voting issues, and some of the people discussing them were Russian?

      THAT constitutes “interference?”  <bangs head against wall>

      His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
      but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
      and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
      more deadly than his right had been.

    • #339363
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 12,932

      Russia did all the bad things we think the PTB did.  Secretly.  He’s the new Scarlet Pimpernel.

      “That damned elusive Pimpernel!”

    • #339392
      Nick Xylas
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 194

      Putin certainly had motive to intervene in the Brexit one, though. He sees the Western alliances like the EU and NATO as a check on Russian power.

      “The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.” -Julius Nyerere

    • #339408
      sadoldgirl
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    • #339420
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,230

      Russia has a coronavirus vaccine and the U.S. has a health crisis, a financial crisis, a housing crisis, a food crisis – and is trying to pick a fight with Russia – and China too – to distract its citizens from the fact that they’re being robbed blind.  According to reports, Joe Biden has a plan to fix it all – when asked what it was, he replied that nothing would fundamentally change.

    • #339515
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,712

      Just come stay in my BOMBSHELL! shelter until this latest hysteria blows over!

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #339563
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,496

      This one isn’t as easy to deny as the US hack.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

      Like many public systems, GOP want to rip the battery out + say the whole car doesn’t work, so they can sell it for parts - AOC

    • #339565
      Satan
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      • Total Posts: 5,202

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #339572
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,230

      I thought Satan was behind everything

    • #339622
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,262

      I know I put more line in the string trimmer, and it’s gone already.  Damn Russians.

      Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

    • #339635
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,496

      Is the ones in UK believe in Russia interference.

      I got this from a Corbyn supporter in the UK.

      RUSSIAN INFLUENCE PART IWhat Johnson Doesn’t Want You to Know

      A

      ccording to its chairman, Dominic Grieve, Boris Johnson personally blocked – for “bogus” reasons – the imminent publication of a cross-party report on Russia meddling in UK politics by Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee (ISC).

      Elements of the suppressed report have now leaked out. According to CNN, the evidence of Bill Browder, the campaigner behind the anti-corruption Magnitsky Acts, suggests that Russia’s President, Vladimir Putin, has deployed Russians “to infiltrate UK society and to conceal the underlying Russian controllers and their agendas”.

      In the meantime, openDemocracy has revealed that the Conservative Party, which has received more than £3.5 million from Russian funders since 2010, has actually stepped up its dependence on Russian donors to at least £489,850 in the last year, compared to £350,000 in the year previously.

      Direct party funding is only the tip of the iceberg. The connections between Putin’s anti-EU agenda and Brexit politicians go much deeper.

      https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/09/russian-influence-in-britain-what-johnson-doesnt-want-you-to-know/

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

      Like many public systems, GOP want to rip the battery out + say the whole car doesn’t work, so they can sell it for parts - AOC

    • #339663
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,712

      @jonLP, what US hack?

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #339684
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,225

      in the long run. Just say “Here are the reports from our intelligence services. I don’t believe them. So I am not going to act on them.”

      Instead, they look like fools  or worse for actively suppressing the reports (Johnson) or pretending they were never told about them (Trump). I am sure they would both say, “But my political opposition would have made a big deal about the intelligence if it had been released.” Guess what happened anyway – only worse by your pathetic attempts at suppression.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #339720
      Thom Paine
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 313

      Breaking:  According to a leaked intelligence report via unnamed intelligence officers given to the NYT via Judith Miller in a dark alley, the Russians were responsible for the sinking of the Titanic. Rachel Maddow is set to dedicate her next 5 shows on it.

    • #339724
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,767

      @jonlp I don’t. How much money to the Tories came from British capitalists and American oligarchs? And after all the interference the British did in other countries’ governments over the centuries, well, what goes around comes around. I have no more sympathy for them than I do our own government when it comes to that.

      Focusing on just one source of corruption is just a distraction from the real issue of private money in public politics, and corruption in general. It accomplishes nothing productive.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #340224
      Spud Demon
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      • Total Posts: 139

      So many people here don’t seem to mind if professional Russian trolls are manipulating the masses.  I think it sucks.  It sucked when Clinton did it too, but at least Correct The Record employed American trolls (which is what made it business as usual rather than “foreign interference”).

      p.s.  Russia also murders people they don’t like.  They are not your friend.

    • #340272
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,445

      US citizens?  It is okay because American citizens fucking over American citizens is, well, so fucking American?  Or just keeps employment numbers up?

      Anyway, whatever Russia does is something all countries who have the resources available to them do.  Except most countries are not surrounded with missile bases aimed at them.  Obama literally went to the UK to tell the British what the US wanted them to do about the Brexit vote.  How is that any better?  IMO, that is worse.   Hillary’s State Department set up groups to monitor all the candidates in France before Macron – who Obama publicly endorsed – was elected. We casually overthrow elections in other countries if we do not like the results.   There is no moral ground to cling to.

      IMO it is naive to believe that the US is the only country entitled to influence or try to influence, the rest of the world.  We don’t even take care of our own citizens, we have had, really, fascism for quite a while.  We are controlled by corporations.  So there is that.  Sorry, my selective outrage button has been taken offline.  But I can assure you, I am not naive.

      And if you do not believe the United States murders people it does not like – you are the hopelessly naive person here.  No one is saying Russia is “their friend”, they are saying they do not think Russia is the archenemy and so we should ignore what our country is doing to us and the rest of the world.  That’s just deflection bullshit.

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

    • #340304
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,767

      @spuddemon The only hard evidence presented was a Russian troll farm. There are all sorts of homegrown troll farms that do far more than a Russian one with a paltry budget. I’d say DU has trolls who “manipulate” people more than any Russians do, and they’re not even that influential.

      For that matter, any Russian attempts to influence American voters are completely eclipsed by the bribes given to our politicians by the corporate elite, and the drumbeat of propaganda from all of the “trusted” American news sources. Furthermore, the foreign government that “interferes” the most in American elections is Israel, and has been for decades. Russia hasn’t come close to that level of influence since World War I.

      I guess you can put me in the “I don’t care” category.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #340333
      Maedhros
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 730

      Who are the “professional Russian Trolls?”  The Internet Research Agency?  There is no evidence linking their activities to the Russian government, and nothing to suggest they were anything other than a clickbait marketing company.  Even if we were to consider the IRA’s actions, they spent $44,000 on clickbait adds during the 2016 campaign – compared to $6.5 BILLION by the candidates, the vast majority of which came from PACs and corporate donors.  How can anyone with a straight face point to such a tiny drip in an ocean of money and claim it effected the election?

      And what, exactly, did the Russian Government do to interfere?  No one will ever answer this question, but they will still insist that “Russia interfered.”

      You can keep peddling Russiagate fables if you like, but few here are gullible enough to believe any of it.

      His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
      but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
      and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
      more deadly than his right had been.

    • #340553
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,225

      This week, the long-delayed intelligence and security committee report into alleged Russian interference in British democracy had troubling findings: not least ministers turning an apparent blind eye. Vladimir Putin’s kleptocratic gangster regime should be opposed by anyone with progressive inclinations: for its murderous war in Chechnya, in which tens of thousands perished; its state-sanctioned bigotry against LGBTQ people; and for its ties with the European far right. That the Conservatives financially benefit from donations linked to Russian oligarchs is itself a concern, as is Britain’s status as a safe haven for dirty money worth about £100bn a year.

      But the spectre of Russian interference has become a crutch for many liberal centrists. Easier to claim the nefarious hand of Putin is responsible for political events we do not like – from Brexit to Donald Trump – than to ask searching questions about our own dysfunctional democracies. Calls to clamp down on states intervening in each other’s affairs need to be consistent, or risk being hypocritical and self-serving. The United States backed Boris Yeltsin’s presidential campaign in 1996 …

      Richard Dearlove, the former MI6 chief, has publicly regretted that British security services helped Putin win power in 2000. On the eve of that presidential election, Tony Blair praised Putin as a moderniser who was “highly intelligent and with a focused view of what he wants to achieve in Russia”, even as Chechnya was being flattened.

      The obsessive focus with Putin robs us of the chance to discuss these issues. … it would be delusional to ignore the role of rightwing newspapers disproportionately read by Tory voters.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/23/bigger-foreign-intervention-brexit-referendum-russia-rupert-murdoch

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #340575
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,767

      @peacecorps It deserves its own OP.

      It comes as no surprise that the ruling elites and the people who are paid by them blame foreign governments for their own failures. It’s one of the oldest tricks in history’s political playbook. What’s amazing, and disheartening, is that so many otherwise intelligent people fall for it time after time.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

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