Sen. Bernie Sanders | Real Time with Bill Maher

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  • #298181

    Joe Shlabotnik
    • Total Posts: 676


    ~ All good things are Wild and Free ~

  • #298212

    • Total Posts: 4,410

    I expected the ‘when are you gonna drop out…’

    how are you going to pay for universal health care yada yada

    IMO it was a Good 10 minutes.

  • #298282

    The Red Menace
    • Total Posts: 1,077

    It’s in the same category as “you only use 10% of your brain.” it draws from a small fact (that conscious, active thought uses a very small portion of hte brain) and turns it into a huge heap of nonsense (therefore the remaining portion of the brain is “unused.”)

    In this case, people love to point out the rampant inflation in the Wiemar Republic and how that destroyed their economy and, ultimately, led to the rise of fascism. The promoted lesson is “printing money = inflation = economic collapse = Nazis” and this is why Mises and the Austrian School became a thing at all.

    The thing is, it’s kind of partially true. Increasing the money supply DOES increase inflation. But everything after that point is correlation = causation nonsense.

    The question is, does putting new money into circulation stimulate the economy more than inflation slows it down? If the answer is yes, then you can actually just ignore inflation. Because inflation naturally decreases on its own. As money is destroyed, whether literally destroyed or figuratively destroyed through taxation, inflation is mitigated.

    Basically, so long as you have a functioning economy and a method of removing money from the system, inflation is a non-issue.

    Which is the problem the postwar Wiemar Republic had. nearly half its workforce were casualties of war. Even with the reduced workforce, industry had collapsed in Germany, meaning unemployment was skyrocketing. No unemployment and no industry meant no taxes to be collected. And at the same time, Germany had to pay off its debts AND reparations. So, they printed tons and tons of Deutschmarks to do exactly that. So Germany got this huge influx of raw cash… and nothing to spend it on domestically, and no taxes to collect it back with. So you get these images of Germans lugging around wheelbarrows of money just to buy a potato or whatever.

    A similar situation comes from, for instance, Zimbabwe. Like a lot of postcolonial states, Zimbabwe ended up selling its industry to foreign interests as part of a package deal with the IMF and World Bank. Which meant is was next to impossible to get the backing resources to pay for interest on the loans. So they printed money, in huge notes. With which they could pay off their international debt… but causing runaway inflation at home, with no way to de-flate the situation.


    Now, we look at the US, and our obsession with Austrian Capitalism. Can we handle inflation? To a huge degree. if the US Government printed out a year’s salary and gave it to every American, our economy wouldn’t even burp. Buuuut the problem is, our Austrian capitalist cult ALSO demands an absolute cessation of taxation. That’s why both parties are constantly chucking out tax cuts, breaks, loopholes, rebates, credits, and the like. The problem is, without taxation, the government cannot reabsorb the money it prints effectively, making inflation a much bigger problem.


    (This is by the way, the long form of “taxes pay for it” – it’s not that tax dollars go into the treasury’s “wallet,” and then are “spent.” An national economy doesn’t work like personal finances. No, it means that what you pay in taxes offsets the inflation caused by government spending, since ALL government spending is effectively “printing money.” Basically what this means is that if you have a spending bill of sayyyy  $1.5 trillion, you DO NOT need to raise $1.5 trillion in tax dollars to pay it off. You only need to raise taxes  to meet the inflation caused by the creation of $1.5 trillion. So basically spending / creating $1.5t would only require a tax collection of about forty billion at current rates, adjusted; and this collection can be stretched out over YEARS to no ill effect)


    This also exposes Misesan economics for what it is – Rich Poeple Economics. They oppose inflation because one, it makes wealth hoarders’ hoard slightly less valuable and two, because it requires taxation to offset, which would again detract from that hoard. Misesan economics – Lasseiz-Faire capitalism, Neoliberalism, Austrian school, whatever you call it – is all about preserving the wealth of the wealthy and kicking the costs down to the non-wealthy. But of course, we all knew that.

  • #298804

    Snort McDork
    • Total Posts: 3,538

    I was thinking the same thing at the start @elias39 that Bernie was going to get the “when you dropping out” question. Pleasantly surprised Bill was normal.

    I'm Snort McDork and I approved this message.

    "I like birdy num-nums"

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