Shontel Brown leads 11th Congressional District special election in early vote as polls close

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    • #438628
      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 21,911

      (Cleveland Plain Dealer) CLEVELAND, Ohio – Polls are now officially closed for the Democratic primary election in the 11th Congressional District special election, with Cuyahoga County Councilwoman Shontel Brown taking a lead in early voting against chief rival former state Sen. Nina Turner.

      Early vote totals showed Brown leading Turner 56% to 36%, according to early vote totals from Cuyahoga and Summit counties.

      Brown led in Cuyahoga County with 11,461 votes to Turner’s 7,135. Although it is still early and many results are out, Brown’s early showing could be a blow considering her campaign did not appear to pick up momentum until after early voting had started. In Summit County, Brown led in early vote totals with 1,124 to Turner’s 977 votes.

      Full story here.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438629
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,911

      But it’s a 20% lead , or 4000 votes, for the Corruptocrat, the true Democrat. It looks like the fix is in. Glad I picked up some Irish whisky on the way home.

      There was no line when we voted at 5pm, either. I have a bad feeling about this. I also have the feeling that I will completely give up on the electoral process and never vote again, because I can’t trust those who count the votes or program the machines. The democratic republic is dead. There’s no way Nina Turner lost fair and square in this district.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438635
      Satan
      Participant
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      And has Karl Rove been seen anywhere in the state recently??

      This is looking suspicious as Nixon’s last Halloween party….

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

      • #438639
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,911

        They use scanners here. It’s not the machines at the precincts that are the problem; it’s the machines at the county level. The tabulators. Those can still be easily hacked by someone who knows what he’s doing.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438637
      mrdmk
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      • Total Posts: 3,705

      Brown go straight from Congress to jail

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438640
      gordyfl
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      • Total Posts: 1,860

      And Hillary must be smiling. I’m still crossing my fingers Nina can pull this out.

    • #438642
      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 21,911

      I don’t know which precincts are in, though. I don’t know if East Cleveland and Euclid have come in yet, and that’s where Nina’s greatest strength should be. Richmond Heights, too.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438643
      MistaP
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      • Total Posts: 3,082

      well in 14 months the seat’s up for grabs again, and Brown’s likely to be under indictment

    • #438647
      mrdmk
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      • Total Posts: 3,705

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438649
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,705

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438650
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,911

      The good news is that in Cuyahoga County, though Turner is down by about 3000 votes, only half the precincts are in and they do NOT include Cleveland proper, East Cleveland, Euclid, or Richmond Heights. This is Turner’s former State Senate district. We shall see.

      I still think there’s some rigging going on.

      s

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438652
      mrdmk
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      • Total Posts: 3,705

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438654
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,705

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438656
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,705

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438662
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,705

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      Warning DO NOT CLICK HERE!
    • #438670
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,911

      I have learned something tonight. If who I believe @stockholmer and the rest of Europe would call a moderate, middle-of-the-road Social Democrat cannot win in a Democratic primary in this district, then there is absolutely no hope of anyone from the right of the Democratic Party establishment ever winning from within said political party.

      Kyle Kulinski, you need to realize that it’s over, son. The left cannot take over the Democratic Party from within, regardless of whether there was election fraud or not.

      I think the results were probably fixed by the county tabulator by switching some of the early voting results, giving Shontel Brown a 4000 vote cushion going in. And that’s almost exactly how much Shontel Brown won by. Coincidence is more common than dirt, but this dirt is fucking radioactive it’s so contaminated. IMHO. But suppose I’m flat-out wrong.

      Nothing changes. Suppose the vote was 100% authentic, as people like Kulinski, and most likely Breaking Points as well, will assume to be so. That means that all the kleptocratic money that flowed into this one little congressional district waged a blatant misinformation campaign that fooled enough voters to vote for candidate who is very likely to be indicted within a year for criminal corruption and abuse of  power.

      This tells me that misinformation campaigns by the Democratic Party work remarkably well on most Democratic voters. This means that no one to the left of, oh, Barack Obama, can ever rise very far within that party, whose most dedicated voters would be called cultists if they donated to some preacher instead of to Democratic candidates.

      Lawrence O’Donnell once said that the only way for political movements to sway the political party that is closest to them in ideology is for the movement’s supporters to prove that they are capable of not voting for that party’s candidates. Take away the possibility of them ever winning without you, and they either move satisfactorily in your direction or you simply destroy them. This has happened before, over issues of slavery and free soil for American citizens(except Native Americans and women, of course).

      But the first thing to do when you realize you’ve dug yourself into a whole is to quit digging. Abolitionists, Free Soilers, Greenbackers, and maybe a couple more policy-based political factions simply quit voting for the Whigs. The Republicans formed when they all came together in the North, over issues.

      That happened in just four years. The telegraph probably had something to do with it, as the internet could in the very near future. So, that’s my best case for giving a new third party a shot. Or, maybe electoral reform will simply not be allowed. Maybe Fascism arrived with its demented savior wrapped in a hazy flag and riding a donkey, and it’s already too late. Too late for elections to be able to destroy the power of money, and capital, in American politics.

      Whichever of those ways I look at it, though, I know that the only rational thing for any real leftist to do is to stop voting for, and most definitely stop sending money to, Democrats. All Democrats. Then, maybe, I doubt it but maybe, the electoral system might be part of a mass movement for fundamental change in just two or four years.

      If you still think that progressives can somehow pragmatically win from within this sickeningly corrupt political party, then the sooner and more suddenly the Empire falls the better, because this country is seriously fucking the entire planet up.

      Maybe we’ll be such a mess that no other country will want to touch us, much less invade us and end up in some quagmire. Which also happened before. Who wants to occupy a bunch of crazy, violent Americans? And maybe then at least most of the rest of the world might have a chance of surviving the ongoing extinction event in which we live.

      I don’t see what any leftist has to lose by not supporting Democrats. They’re a corrupt, kleptocratic capitalist party. I cannot call myself a leftist and continue to support such a thing in any way, shape, or form. I also would feel like a sucker, and I really don’t like that, so I won’t.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #438675
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 6,413

      Shontel (the ditz, who can believe this shit?) Brown thanked her handlers right away. She’s following, like many ditzes do, the rules of the Democratic party and this means that ballot access should prepare for a People’s Party candidate and you know who it will be.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

      • #438680
        Gryneos
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,654

        If people believed the lies generated against Nina, then they won’t accept her as a candidate with the People’s Party, either (at least in Ohio). After Karl Rove created all of those lies against Jim Hightower and Ann Richards, neither could get offices again after that. People no longer believed them, even after it was revealed that GWB’s handlers created all of the lies. They just moved on to lie to the whole country to create more war, and people believed that, too.

        Who are you? | What do you want? | Why are you here? | Where are you going? | Do you have anything worth living for? | Who do you serve and who do you trust?

        • #438711
          Utopian Leftist
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          People are more inclined to believe a lie than they are to believe that they have been fooled by a lie.

          "All fascism is a result of a failure of the left to provide a viable alternative." ~ Trotsky
          “It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” ~ Krishnamurti

        • #438731
          Mr. Mickeys Mom
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 6,413

          For example, if Pennsylvania had the Movement for a People’s Party officially registered, and they ran candidates, they would then see MPP’s platform. The issues are clear because they mimic what Bernie Sanders set out to do with his candidacy, which was fucked over by the Democratic party. Just watch the number of voters leave the Democrat and Republican parties as a result of that.

          There IS nothing over which a voter would be confused. The general elections would then offer a choice, and the primary race propaganda would  not come from within the same party, WHICH IS WHY BERNIE SANDERS WAS PUSHED OUT.

           

          Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

          • #438738
            Gryneos
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,654

            was that if the election wasn’t rigged, then Nina Turner’s name is tainted in the minds of the people who voted for the other candidate. They’re going to continue to believe the lies against her going forward. Her best bet would be to move to some other state and start over, whether with the MPP or whoever. Ohio voters have drunk the Dem koolaid, and I seriously doubt there is enough MPP support yet, or not for many years to come.

            I do back the MPP; I simply do not think it would work right now for her, or even in another two years, if she remained in the same district.

            Who are you? | What do you want? | Why are you here? | Where are you going? | Do you have anything worth living for? | Who do you serve and who do you trust?

            • #438741
              Ohio Barbarian
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 21,911

              This was a special election in August, remember. Only about 10% of the voters showed up of this one out of those who showed up in November 2020. Most people here simply don’t pay attention to elections, except for the presidential and gubernatorial ones and, to a much lesser extent, the midterms.

              This means we really don’t know how well Nina Turner would do as a People’s Party candidate in 2024 because there will be a much larger and broader electorate. There is a strong possibility they will be on the ballot then. If not, the Greens will.

              It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

              You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

          • #438739
            Jim Lane
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 889

            @mrmickeysmom

            You write, “Just watch the number of voters leave the Democrat and Republican parties as a result of” the People’s Party being on the ballot. Why would this be significantly different from what happened (or didn’t happen) when the Green Party was on the ballot?

            It appears that the Greens didn’t qualify for the ballot in Pennsylvania in 2020. In 2016, however, Jill Stein was on the ballot, so this “voters see the platform” effect that you cite would have been present. The Green Party ticket (Stein/Baraka) got 0.81% of the vote. While they were getting 50,000 votes, Trump was carrying the state with almost 3 million. With the higher turnout in 2020, Trump improved to 3.4 million, but lost to Biden’s 3.5 million.

            Do you expect the People’s Party to be competitive in statewide races?

            • #438792
              Mr. Mickeys Mom
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 6,413

              Yes, because unlike the platform of the Green Party, which hasn’t shown the leadership as has MPP, this is why I feel it cuts through the BULLSHIT of why people even respond to negative fucking adds.

              I think I’ve explained and even invited folks here to check MPP’s YouTube channel every Thursday. I believed in Bernie’s message and method, which stopped in 2020 when the Democratic corporate wing won out, just as it did in the 11th US District in OH. That is what separates it from the Green party.

              Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

          • #438825
            eridani
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 10,257

            Only political junkies (about 5% of the registered voters) do that.  If the Peoples’ Party does not have a list of registered voters to start building their own database, they are toast right from the beginning.

            Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

            • #438865
              Mr. Mickeys Mom
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 6,413

              After the brief exercise of remembering the numbers who showed up when Bernie Sanders started his run for the presidency, see how the number of people to show up aligned with the issues, which coincide with the platform of the People’s Party.

              It’s the issues that people respond to. It’s not a number that someone pulls out of their ass as only being 5%.

              Take your insults elsewhere.

              Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

              • #439018
                eridani
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 10,257

                Out of 500+ voters in my precinct, 4 or 5 pay attention to issues, and my husband and I are two of them.  People do not base decisions to vote on platforms in voters pamphlets.  They respond to people who come around and ask them what issues they think are important–especially necessary in city council contests.

                Maybe your precinct is wealthier than mine though.

                Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

          • #439021
            eridani
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 10,257

            They pay attention to people who visit them and ask what is most important to them personally.

            Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

            • #439044
              Ohio Barbarian
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 21,911

              Nina Turner’s campaign was engaged in all the voter-outreach you would like, and she STILL lost because the election was FUCKING STOLEN. Whether by vote-switching or the saturation of ads full of lies or both.

              Our elections are not free and fair because we live in an oligarchy, not a representative democracy. Yet you still think elections will be allowed to fundamentally change things. It is not @mrmickeysmom who is delusional, she knows exactly how difficult it is to get a third party on the ballot, much less win a fair election, it is you. The difference between her and I is she is willing to make the effort on that front and I am not. That’s a personal choice, not a moral or ideological one.

              It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

              You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

              • #439785
                eridani
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 10,257

                Not sure what the voter turnout is, but it is lower for primaries.  Shontel Brown has been sending emails asking for money, and I just told her to fuck off.

                Speaking of third parties, Socialist Alternative has managed to elect Kshama Sawant to the Seattle City Council three times.  They have a massive volunteer operation, 400+ for a single city council district.  This is with plenty of support from local Democrats, who ignore party pressure to support progressives.

                Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

        • #438732
          Jim Lane
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 889

          @gryneos

          You write:

          If people believed the lies generated against Nina, then they won’t accept her as a candidate with the People’s Party, either (at least in Ohio).

          On JPR there seem to be two popular explanations for the result: A lot of money poured in to defeat Turner, and the voting was rigged. Therefore, proceeding through Democratic primaries is always hopeless, and we need to try a “new” approach, namely a third party. (I use the scare quotes because this approach is of course not new. The Greens have been at it for a quarter of a century now.)

          AFAICT, the evidence for rigging is negligible. Some people seem to reason as “The candidate we like is so obviously the best one that most voters could not possibly think otherwise, and therefore the only explanation for a loss is vote rigging.” I think that’s absurd. But let’s assume for the sake of the argument that money and vote rigging were both involved.

          How does going the minor-party route change anything? Donors who poured in money to defeat Nina Turner in a Democratic Party primary will also pour in money to defeat her or someone like her running as the People’s Party candidate in a general election. Unspecified malefactors who somehow have the power to rig the vote in a Democratic Party primary will also be able to rig the vote in a general election.

          Are there lots of progressives out there who disdain to soil their hands by voting in a Democratic primary, but who will eagerly turn out to vote for some other party in the general election? In this context, “lots” has to mean scores of millions nationwide. That’s totally implausible. The tiny handful of such voters would be far outnumbered by the people who don’t obsess about politics, don’t frequent online message boards, and have a long-established brand loyalty to the Democratic Party. They show up on Election Day and generally vote for the Democratic nominee. They may vote for a progressive in the primary but they won’t vote against the Democrat in the general. Notice that Bernie Sanders, in each of his campaigns in the Democratic primaries, got many many more votes than the Green Party or the Peace and Freedom Party or the Party of Socialism and Liberation have ever gotten in the general.

          Are any of those minor parties running a candidate against Shontel Brown? Without even knowing if there is such a candidate, let alone his or her credentials, I’ll make a prediction: That candidate will get stomped. That candidate will come nowhere close to getting the number of votes in the general election that Nina Turner got in the Democratic primary.

          • #438742
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 21,911

            Which means that social and economic collapse leading to the gods-know-what is much more likely to happen sooner as Democrats fail to make the changes necessary for millions of people not to fall into homelessness and/or desperate despair.

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

          • #438793
            djean111
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 6,571

            Democratic party!  A progressive candidate will either lose or be ineffective if elected, and the usual centrist will just fuck progressives (and everybody else) over.  And, since voting for a third party, as you say, is useless, as we are so minuscule and all,  – then I honestly do wonder what you hope to gain at a website like JPR?  The opportunity to feel like you are twisting the knife?  Or trying to recruit vote for the blues just for fun?  Either way, nothing you say is a good reason to vote for the blue.  I am looking even more forward to not voting for whatever corporate shit the Dems run in Florida, and I am especially looking forward to not voting for Biden/Harris (if Biden is still able to walk and talk) or Harris/some other Third way shit sandwich.   I do see the early outreach for Harris is that if one does not support her, one is a racist misogynist.  Bwahahaha! Thanks again!

            America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

            Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

          • #439020
            kelly
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 369

            Racketeers gotta racket.

            Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt.

            Again.

            Despite our lying eyes and EVERY GODDAMN THING WE HAVE SEEN, KNOWN AND LEARNED ABOUT SINCE THE DAWN OF REAGAN.

            A wise(guy) approach.

    • #438817
      Satan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,318

      What if some of these voters were just drunk off their ass…. or had otherwise impaired vision, and thought they were voting for Sherrod Brown??

      Yeah, I know it sounds crazy…. but there are some “low information” voters out there who will go with the name that looks familiar. How the hell else could that ridiculous senator from Louisiana get elected without the name “John Kennedy”.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

      • #438868
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,911

        These were the true Blue voters, mostly older Black voters no doubt, who showed up. Voter turnout was 10% of that during the 2020 presidential election. Those voters still believe Obama and Clyburne are saintly fighters for Black people, regardless of the evidence. They are a cult. And they won.

        No more being affiliated with a cultish and corrupt political party for me.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

        • #439134
          Jim Lane
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 889

          @ohiobarbarian

          You write:

          These were the true Blue voters, mostly older Black voters no doubt, who showed up. Voter turnout was 10% of that during the 2020 presidential election.

          That makes sense. It suggests that Turner, who lost by less than 6 points, might be able to close that gap in the 2022 primary, with presumably higher turnout than in a special election. Also, the Republicans who crossed over, and who probably provided Brown with her winning margin, will be looking at a highly competitive GOP primary for the open U.S. Senate seat, so they’ll probably choose Republican ballots.

          So Turner should have a decent shot, even aside from the chance that Brown will have a major corruption scandal.

          Do you have a guess as to Turner’s next move? Contest the 2022 Democratic primary for the seat? Run instead in the general election on some other party line? Go after that open Senate seat? Go the Stacey Abrams route and sit out electoral politics in favor of other organizing?

          • #439137
            MackMarkstein
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 276

            Watching as much as possible of Status Coup live coverage the other night from Nina headquarters (that’s where Status C. were): all I can report from that is she *does* seem to have a contemplated next move. She wouldn’t tell the Status C. people and the viewers what it is, but said we’d be bound to notice when it happens. (And I hope it isn’t suicide! She didn’t seem in that kind of mood). All intriguing…Maybe she has said more since then.
            I hope she has further plans and I don’t think it’ll work inside the Dem party. I also hope she didn’t just mean campaigning for progressives running all over the USA but no further campaigning herself.

          • #439171
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 21,911

            Nina Turner did say that the reason she ran in the Democratic primary was because that was the only way she could get on the ballot for this special election. Given Ohio election law, that is true; her only choices were to run either as a Democrat or a Republican. I cannot imagine Nina running as a Republican; I’m sure she can’t, either.

            I think she’ll be back, but I’m not sure as what. I don’t know if it’s possible she could get on the ballot as a third party candidate next year, since the only way to do that under current law(which the Ohio legislature is thinking about changing again right now) is by petition signatures and lots of them. If they bring back social distancing requirements and keep people scared to death of coming near everybody else, that may well be impossible.

            There’s a good chance Shontel Brown will be indicted on state corruption charges before next November, but all that means is that the Democrats will trot out another corrupt member of the Black Misleadership Class for 2022, and will do whatever it takes to keep Turner from winning the nomination if she makes another go of it, unless she cuts some sort of a deal with them.

            Could she win in a three-way general election in 2024? I don’t know. I don’t know what 2024 will bring. I don’t know who the Democrat and Republican nominees for President will be. I don’t know whether or not there will election fraud committed by either the Blue or Red teams. All I know is that if she does run as a Green or People’s Party candidate or as an independent, I’d probably vote for her.

            If she chooses to run in the Democratic primary again, after the way she was viciously smeared and reviled by that party, I won’t support her for the simple reason that Democrats have made it perfectly clear that anyone who might effectively challenge the status quo from the left cannot be a Democrat. If Turner runs as a Democrat after what just happened, then she’s either corrupt or delusional, neither of which is a quality that will gain my vote.

            And suppose she does win as a Democrat. That means she was allowed to win, and then will do nothing but put on theater once she gets to Washington. Just like the rest of the Fraud Squad.

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

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