Should we disrupt the Democratic Party or try to take it over?

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    • #467465
      eridani
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      • Total Posts: 11,670

      There reality is that with first-past-the-post voting, there can never be a succesful third party in the US, except at the local level (see Socialist Alternative and Kshama Sawant). What about the Republicans? Were’t they once a third party? Yes, but they just replaced the Whigs, who hadn’t even nominated a presidential candidate in 1856.

      https://www.nationofchange.org/2022/01/17/should-we-disrupt-the-democratic-party-or-try-to-take-it-over/

      Schlozman’s book proposes that the movements which are most successful at executing this gambit become “anchor” groups in electoral politics by mobilizing a reliable base of support for a chosen political party over an extended period. Schlozman pays particular attention to how organized labor secured lasting influence within the Democratic establishment starting during the New Deal, and how the religious right became an anchor within the Republicans in the Reagan era. “Inside parties, anchoring groups exercise broad influence on national politics by virtue of the money, votes and networks that they offer to the party with which they have allied,” he explained. In exchange for loyalty, anchoring movements gain the ability to shape parties’ long-term trajectories and influence their ideological character.

      As opposed to standard pressure groups, who will push their issue on both sides of the aisle, anchors exhibit loyalty to a single party on an extended basis. “How did we get to the world where the Supreme Court threatens basically to overturn Roe v. Wade?” Schlozman asked. “Answer: a party-wide project that has played out over a long, long time. This was not just the Christian Right treating abortion as one issue among many, where they were going to lobby legislators. By becoming an anchor and entering the Republicans, they shaped the whole worldview of the party around their priorities.”

      In contrast, movements that fail to become anchors face serious consequences. Schlozman points to the populists of the 1890s and the antiwar movement of the 1960s as political formations whose legacies were severely diminished by their inability to enter a major party. “With Populism died the most serious challenge to corporate capitalism that the United States would ever see,” he writes. And “although its personnel occupied positions at the top of the Democratic Party for decades, the antiwar movement failed to restrain American empire.”

      The decision to try to anchor a political party, however, is not one that movements can take lightly. As a cost of entering into an alliance with a mainstream group, movement leaders may have to distance themselves from radicals in their ranks who pursue precisely the type of disruptive protest that Piven recommends. “We see the price mostly clearly with the labor movement in the late 1940s,” Schlozman explained. “As the Cold War escalates, they have to push out the Communist unions that contain their most dedicated organizers. As for the Christian Right, they had to accept that they’re not building a Christian America; they had to accept that, within the party of Ronald Reagan, they would still play second fiddle to economic conservatives for a long time. Those are heavy prices.”

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

    • #467503
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,325

      and then taken over by turd-wayers, who sold it to the highest bidder.

      Unless it’s returned to its 1932 incarnation, it’s still worthless. Even if you turn the clock back to just 1976, you can get rid of the forever wars.

      Hitler 1944: Kiev is to be held to the last man.
      Biden 2022: Kiev is to be held to the last Ukrainian.

    • #467506
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 24,441

      If those are the only choices, that leaves only disruption for leftists.

      Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

      The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #467522
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,851

      We tried Schlozman’s way (labor/peace/civil rights/religious right/tea party/Bernie) all were sabotaged or bought off or undermined. All Berniecrats got for their attempt was 3 million people to demexit – only to come back just to give us Biden. The greatest victory of the tea party? Hounding Boehner into retirement? The religious right? GWB. The anti war/civil rights movement? Ronnie Raguns.

      To use the terms of the 5 tools theory there is a natural opposition – intelligence and morality versus money. Both compete for popular support, and when money inevitably (eventually) loses it will resort to violence, resulting in the collapse of whatever – a nation, a city, or a society, followed by a rebirth on the intel/morality model slowly suborned by money again. Rinse and repeat.

    • #467523
      djean111
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      • Total Posts: 7,996

      And anyone trying to sell incrementalism to me can fuck the fuck off.  That’s just another Dem tactic to get donations and votes.

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

      A YouTube comment – we need new conspiracy theories – the old ones have all come true.

      • #467525
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 24,441

        To paraphrase Cato: The Democratic Party must be destroyed! 

        One way to help do that is to simply avoid voting for Democrats.

        Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

        The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

    • #467528
      Dunatus
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 675

      Mainly because the playing field has been completely changed by corporate money thanks to the Democratic Party under Clinton. The Democratic Party could give a shit about ‘anchor groups’ or any other part of their constituency as long as they continue to rake in corporate cash and increase their stock portfolios.

      • #467533
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 24,441

        We know that contributions to the Democratic Party increase when they are out of power, and the politicians who are voted out can always make a mint by accepting corporate board seats, getting hired by Democrat-affiliated think tanks, or from speaking fees.

        In short, the party of which I used to be a proud member is nothing more than a gigantic money-laundering operation.

        Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

        The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

        • #467535
          Dunatus
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 675

          The mask truly came off during the Obama administration but all the signs were there. For me, it was the whole debacle around the ACA and the complete capitulation by the Democratic party to their corporate donors. I was super suspicious before that, but that was the last straw for me.

    • #467543
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,760

      ..leave the party and don’t look back.

    • #467545
      kelly
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 539

      as though people would not unite in opposition to the chicanery?
      as though there is another way forward.
      How is this lopsided question even serious?
      Why is it always thus?

    • #467551
      Hobbit709
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      • Total Posts: 2,952

      Or the Know Nothings.

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

    • #467563
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,376

      Arguably Trump burned up a chunk of Republican old forest that needed some dead wood (the Bush and Cheney legacy) torched, no reason a fire breathing Democrat couldn’t finish the job on the Clintonistas, and deliver push back against the globalists.

      Apologies if “fire breathing” evokes imagery that some might think is appropriating iconography from the Hindu pantheon, I’m not, though I can see why you might be wondering. 😉

      Don't Kill the Whale
      Don't feed the trolls

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