So, a President walks into a coronavirus…

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    • #285146
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 2,907

      Stop me if you’ve heard this one!  Okay, just kidding.  Even my jokes aren’t that bad.  I do think it is important to consider what is being done at this time, what is happening throughout America and much of the world.  Also – currently the numbers (as of March 12th, at 9:24 AM EST) US cases are at 1,339, global cases are at 128,303.  38 deaths in the US, 4,721 worldwide.  Of course, these numbers are inaccurate as they rely on testing and confirmed cases – and the testing supplies and medical personnel are very limited.  We are also seeing the Stock market plummet – which, by itself, is fine by me (fuck the rich) – but there is – and will be, a large ripple effect that will hurt the rest of the economy.  Most Americans do not have paid sick leave – and the US Senate (I think it was the Senate) just blocked an emergency measure to offer up to 14 days of emergency paid sick leave.  Largely, this was along party lines – our friends the republicans didn’t think it was a good idea.

      Another thing worthy of pointing out is that the White House has ordered the “top level” (whatever the fuck that means) coronavirus meetings classified.  Now, as we generally understand, this doesn’t happen unless there is something to hide – most likely several somethings.  I don’t know what it is and can only speculate, but my suspicion is that the coronavirus is far worse than we are being told.  The numbers reported are only of those tested and confirmed – there are tens of thousands – possibly (probably) millions at this point, that have been exposed to the virus.  Individuals with it have been on planes, trains, buses, gone to school dances, big meetings and so on.

      The President’s recent restriction on travel from Europe applies to 26 Countries – not the entirety of Europe.  For a full list, go here – scroll about halfway down:

      If we want to know what a modern Nation under siege looks like, we can look to Italy which is in full lockdown/quarantine mode.  I have heard that the same is now true of Denmark.  We are long beyond the point where containment was really a possibility.  The proper response at this point is not to point fingers at other Nations, it is to combine medical and financial resources to resolve this with a vaccine – and if possible, a treatment that can keep those worst effected and most vulnerable alive.  While viruses are not quite impossible to cure – no really reliable method, as far as I know, has been found for anything like the covid-19 virus.

      At least one state (and probably others by now) has called out the National guard to create a 1 mile containment zone in Rochelle New York.  The NBA has (at least for now) cancelled their season, more restrictions will almost certainly be forthcoming.  This thing is in the U.S. – over a thousand individuals that we know of are confirmed to have it – and it is likely that there are thousands more who either have it but haven’t been/can’t get tested – or aren’t showing symptoms yet.  The time between contact with the virus and symptoms showing seems to vary – to the best of my knowledge they have put the incubation period at anywhere from 2 to 14 days.  It is possible to spread the virus to others before you start showing symptoms – how common that is, I don’t know.  Some Doctors have said that re-infection, after recovering from the virus, is also possible.

      Generally, it attacks the respiratory system.  Primarily, the windpipe and the lungs – and this is bad for all kinds of reasons, but it is especially bad if you are over age 80, if you smoke, or have other health conditions like COPD or Emphysema.

      A lot of what is known is still uncertain.  The mortality rate – which will probably change as time goes on, is around 3.4%, primarily, it kills those who are old and/or have compromised immune systems and various health conditions.  Despite what many Trump fans and critics in media and elsewhere say – this is not just a flu.  It is quite considerably worse, both in the amount of death it is likely to cause (especially if the mortality rate remains anywhere near 3% – or worse, goes up – a fellow JPR member pointed out that the Spanish flu had a 2% rate – and killed between 50 and 100 million people globally) and so there is reason to take it seriously.

      That said, we are unfortunately under the command of a commander in chief who lacks a brain and a heart.  Restricting travel from some 26 European Countries – will only prevent the possibly infected from those specific Countries coming to the US and infecting others.  Russia, I believe, is not so restricted, I do not know if China is, or Iran, or Iraq, or other Countries where this is starting to spread.  Unless we shut down our borders and restrict all incoming international travel, this restriction is unlikely to help much.  What it will do is piss off a lot of European Countries – and leave a number of people stranded, in large part because ticket prices are going to be, well, pricey.

      Despite Trump’s words about the insurance companies waiving fees for coronavirus treatment – what is (as I understand it) actually true is that the copayments for the testing are being waived.  Copayments for treatment, associated medications and so on – will absolutely still apply.  Further, to the best of my knowledge there is a potential vaccine that will begin undergoing trials in April – little is known about how effective it will be, if it is at all effective.  Vaccines take time, there is a long testing period before they are considered safe for distribution – and there are good reasons for that.  A large concern though is what the eventual price of the vaccine will be.  The Trump administration has refused to promise to control any such pricing, saying that they want the private sector to drive investment and ultimately determine the cost themselves.  The, you know, free market.  The same one that has been gouging diabetes patients for hundreds of dollars per insulin prescription.

      I am sharing all of this, just so that some facts are out there, for anyone who doesn’t know.  We don’t know, really, where this thing will go from here – but if the experts are to be believed, some harder times are coming.  Help your friends, your families, your neighbors, if you can.  Wash your hands regularly, try to live healthy.  There is no sure method to avoid the virus, other than (possibly) complete isolation.  If you have the resources to do that, that’s your call – but I would advise making certain that you have enough supplies to last at least a couple of months.  I would also advise making sure that you have access to the internet (if possible) to make sure that you are aware of news reports.

      Me, I’m done being scared of shit like this.  Hell, we Americans make zombie movies – and shows (the Walking Dead, anyone?) for kicks.  Our Country will survive this, it is just going to hurt a lot.  Prepare as best you can, stock up on the essentials – and if you have the opportunity to lend someone else a hand, pay it forward.  I don’t intend to change my daily life (beyond hand washing and keeping a close eye on the news) because I do not have access to those kinds of resources – and my fiance and I require her job to keep paying bills and, well, living.  If things get bad enough, we might head to a relative’s farm, or somewhere more isolated – assuming we are certain we’re not infected.

      Further advice – is not to trust our political leadership to handle this capably.  They can’t – and they have now proven that they can’t.  I don’t think the blame is all on Trump, I think its on our disaster of a political system/government.  Who knows?  Perhaps the anger that rises from this coronavirus (which hopefully, won’t last too long) will lead genuine reform.  For now, avoid large crowds and gatherings if you can.

      Love to all.

    • #285150
      Cold Mountain Trail
      • Total Posts: 12,359

      I think it’s more likely that this admin wants their deliberations classified so no one can find out how badly they fucked up, and what mercenary considerations their fuck-ups were based on.



    • #285154
      • Total Posts: 4,021
    • #285155
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 2,907


      In either case, whatever they want to keep classified is probably something that would piss a lot of us off – and sooner or later it will leak anyway.

      Honestly, I think times like this are the worst possible times for secrecy.  The more information we have, the better prepared we are to deal with this thing.  If the administration did fuck up beyond what we already know, then that, too, should be known, to help others avoid the same mistakes, in other Countries – and in the future in our own.  I don’t know where Trump is getting his ideas from, but I am continuously amazed by how stupid his every response to this has been.  I mean, even for Trump, its stupid.

      • #285160
        Cold Mountain Trail
        • Total Posts: 12,359

        “times like this are the worst possible times for secrecy”

        agreed.  secrecy promotes uncertainty, fear, and panic.  ‘nothing to fear but fear itself’


        ‘even for Trump, its stupid’

        amazingly stupid. proper public health measures at the beginning of this & we’d have a handle on it already.

        that’s why i’m close to 100% confident trump will not be president next year.  he can’t pooh-pooh this one away as a conspiracy against him, unless its one the entire world is participating in.

        and his base will abandon him as the person who couldn’t keep their health safe, let alone their pocketbooks.

        ps:  denmark closed its borders as a public health measure.  the ‘nation under seige’ language is a bit loaded.  it would have been a good idea if we’d closed ours & started screening from jump street.

    • #285186
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 2,907

      The gist of it, basically, is that there are over twelve thousand infected – and that Italy has a very large population of those over the age of 65 – some 22% of the entire population (are 65 or older).  Hospitals, at this point, are getting overwhelmed – what I am reading is that a lot of them are down to doing triage care, or, as some might put it, battlefield medicine.  That is, they are prioritizing those with the best chance of recovery.  In a lot of cases the virus makes ICU care necessary, for an extended period of time (I have heard as long as two weeks).

      One thing that comes to my mind, is that where I live in Aroostook County Maine, there is also a very large percentage of the population that is over 65.  We also have several times the population of Italy in the USA.  Honestly, I’d feel a whole lot better if we had more doctors and nurses, more tests for this thing – and if more of us had health insurance, or at least the ability to make the required copays.  It hasn’t hit Maine yet, but it probably will.


      You are right – those would have been good ideas.  I am not certain about Denmark – but as for Italy, I am only quoting what I heard from an Italian on facebook.  Their words.  We are getting a lot of serious warnings from Italy right now, from people who are dealing with this thing first hand – I think we should take it seriously.

    • #285262
      Red Cloud
      • Total Posts: 1,530

      Everywhere I went today, zilch and no word on when they will restock. I saw this BS in South America. Hoard and hide a product of urgency. Jack up the prices.


      Say people went bonkers and drank Pepsi ’round the clock. Would Pepsi then fail to restock?

    • #285277
      • Total Posts: 384

      According to the following article, the only avenue of stemming the impact of the Coronavirus is to follow Italy’s lead and impose ‘Social Distance’ edicts in our communities. The countries that are fairing okay with the Coronavirus are those that learned from their mistakes with SARS and encouraged such ‘Social Distance’ standards: closing of all churches, sporting events, and other gatherings; discouraging any public contact, and if you must go in public, remain 6′ away from others, etc. America thinks it is immune from such measures because we don’t make such mistakes. I doubt that based upon the preferences in electing our leaders.

      “Go and tell Alexander that God the Supreme King is never the Author of insolent wrong, but is the Creator of light, of peace, of life, of water, of the body of man and of souls;...what Alexander offers and the gifts he promises are things to me utterly useless;..." Dandamis, a great sannyasi of Taxila.Excerpt From: Yogananda, Paramahansa. “Autobiography of a Yogi.”

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