So if Biden wins the nomination, you're going to vote for him to stop Trump right?

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  • #243331

    leftcoast mountains
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    @leftcoastmountains

    Image may contain: 3 people, text

    #NoMiddleGround #I AM BERNIE

  • #243335

    PADemD
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    @pademd

    If Biden wins the nomination, the response to climate change will be insufficient to save the planet.  Might as well bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.

    • #243337

      leftcoast mountains
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      @leftcoastmountains

      I agree. He’s already announced to all his donors that nothing will change. This meme expresses my sentiment exactly. Not mine. But I thought yes! No point.

      #NoMiddleGround #I AM BERNIE

  • #243339

    daleanime
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    @daleanime

    If Uncle Joe is given the nomination Drumpf has already won.

    When the going gets tough, the tough help each other.

  • #243340

    jbnw
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    @jbnw

    I have always voted for a candidate, not against another candidate.  The decades of voting against candidates have lead to a death spiral that so far hit its lowest in the 2016 Presidential election – 2020 may set yet another new low.

  • #243341

    Punxsutawney
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    @punxsutawney

    Why would I vote for someone who has harmed me???  And certainly not for someone who is actively denying the harm he has done to average people in this country, in fact is proud of the way he has legislated and governed and sees no reason to change.

    But hey, keep chasing those suburban moderate rethug votes. Since that working so well for ya all. 

  • #243345

    Charles
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    @charles

    What would be the best outcome for Bernie, his issues, and the progressive movement?

    I hope some will take some time to think about that. Seriously….

    Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

    • #243390

      djean111
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      @djean111

      @charles

      Is that the DNC’s planned  “unity!  Trump!!!” pitch?  I have considered carefully….

      If Biden won, Bernie, his issues, and the progressive movement would be gleefully flushed down the toilet to the smug pronouncement of “the people have spoken”.    If Trump wins against Biden, Bernie, his issues, and the progressive movement get stronger.  Also, if Biden wins, that is eight more years of corporate austerity and war.  EIGHT MORE YEARS.  Not just four.

      So – Bernie or Green.  Final answer.

      I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

      Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

    • #243402

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      @charles President Bernie Sanders is clearly the best outcome, and that is the one I, for one, shall focus on.

      There’s no way I’d vote for Joe Biden. His bankruptcy “reform” financially devastated my family. Fuck him.  I will never forget, or forgive, him or the other Vichy Dems for that alone.

      All politics is local. –Tip O’Neill

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

      • #243405

        Charles
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        @charles

        @ohiobarbarian

        In a scenario where Biden is the nominee and there was ranked choice voting I’d vote for Howie Hawkins.

        But given it’s in all reality a binary choice as to what the actual outcome will be I’ll do what I can to make sure Bernie and AOC have the best opportunity to accomplish getting progressive legislation passed.

        I would tend to guess neither Sanders nor AOC see passing legislation under Trump as the more advantageous outcome given those limited choices.

         

         

        Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

        • #243423

          Ohio Barbarian
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          @ohiobarbarian

          @charles There is zero chance of passing progressive legislation in a Biden Administration. Zero. Biden promised his donors that nothing would fundamentally change, and I take him at his word. So as far as progressive legislation is concerned, whether it’s Biden or Trump makes no difference.

          As far as the country is concerned, if you insist I make a binary choice between Biden and Trump, and the only way you could do that would be to hold a gun to my head, I’d rather have Trump. Another failed neoliberal, Vichy Democrat presidency is what we would have under President Joe Biden. This would clear the way for a real Fascist and/or theocratic Republican to take over the White House in the following election, and that person would probably be the last President of the United States.

          Economic collapse exacerbated by climate change, war overseas, massive civil unrest and probable violent revolution and civil war at home. Ten million American dead. That is what Vote Blue No Matter Who would eventually get us. A second Trump term might give us President Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and we would at least have a chance.

          It’s got to be Bernie. He must win this election. We’re very nearly out of options.

          We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

          With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

          • #243454

            Charles
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            @charles

            @ohiobarbarian

            No one here relishes the possibility of a Biden nomination. It’s a worst case scenario for the Democratic nomination.

            Obviously you can vote for whoever you like. But those saying they will vote Green without even mentioning Howie Hawkins by name pretty much sum up his chances of being elected.

            As for Biden not honoring any potential deals made with Sanders you state those deals won’t be honored. That might be true but there is nothing you are saying that makes that a given. Sanders won’t spend weeks hammering out concessions for the fun of it. He’ll have a plan to fight for them if we give him that chance.  And if it is as you claim that Biden does nothing it will be exposed. That gives Bernie even further vindication.

            Trump doesn’t give a fuck about Sanders and his legislation. That’s not speculation. It’s happening right now. Sanders gets NOTHING in concessions with Trump. And the vichy Dems win anyway without being exposed.

            We don’t get further toward progressive goals by giving the GOP the reigns and letting them turn back the clock. This strategy is a failed one that keeps ending up with even worse outcomes.

            Meanwhile the GOP stacks the courts, continues the tax breaks for the very rich, and pretty much decimate the economy and the environment.

            These things make it much harder for progressives and give cover to vichy Dems to keep pointing fingers instead of being held to account.

            No one here wants Biden as the nominee. But I’ve had more of Trump’s racism, hate, lies, and corruption than I care to think about.

            Trump represents everything Bernie and AOC are fighting against.

            I’m sure if you write either AOC or Sanders neither will tell you that they would prefer working with Trump over Biden. At the end of the day they’d prefer to make lemonade out of Biden’s lemons than shovel the shit Trump keeps dumping on them….

             

             

            Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

            • #243465

              Ohio Barbarian
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              @ohiobarbarian

              @charles I won’t argue with you or anyone else over that voting for the lesser evil bullshit. Not even Bernie or AOC. I will not vote for a traitor to what the Democratic Party should be. Ever. I will not vote for a running dog lackey of the kleptocracy, be his name Obama, Biden, Buttigieg, or Trump. You and others really need to understand and accept that.

              It is reality. It is the way it is. I’m a socialist willing to settle for a social democrat. Here I stand; I can do no other.

              We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

              With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

              • #243499

                Charles
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                @charles

                @ohiobarbarian

                I understand the sentiment. Biden is a terrible choice. I’m sure many will vote on principles and that’s commendable.

                But those that say they support Bernie yet claim they will vote for Trump if Bernie isn’t the nominee depress me. It’s not the vichy Dems that suffer if Trump wins. It’s the people and the environment that suffer. The vichy Dems still get the tax policies and preferential treatment they’ve come to expect. It doesn’t hurt them at all. Instead it gives them credibility.

                So for me Trump is not an option. He’s already fucked things up enough.

                I really believe Bernie will fight hard even if he’s not the nominee if we give him that chance. He deserves that much.

                Bernie 2020….

                Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

                • #243502

                  Ohio Barbarian
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                  @ohiobarbarian

                  @charles Fear not. I will never vote for Trump because no one is going to hold a gun to my head. I’m not going to say I’ll vote for Howie Hawkins if Bernie isn’t the nominee, either. The good thing is that I don’t have to think about that now because Bernie has an excellent chance of winning.

                  We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

                  With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

            • #243486

              djean111
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              @djean111

              @charles

              The “Vote for the Blue No Matter Who”  all laid out neatly.  I wish I was surprised that it is being rolled out so soon.

              Oh, and I sincerely doubt anyone thinks Howie Hawkins or any other Green would get elected.  Maybe you don’t get it – but BEATING TRUMP and VICHY DEM WINNING are not the objectives for many of us.  Eight years of corporate neocon neoliberal Third Way austerity and war loving DEMOCRATS is nothing I will vote for.  Invoking Bernie as if I am a cult member is a sad mistake.

              I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

              Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

        • #243479

          leftcoast mountains
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          @leftcoastmountains

          Come on do you really think Biden would pass or encourage any kind of progressive reforms? He’s already said “No” several times over. Believe him.

          #NoMiddleGround #I AM BERNIE

          • #243759

            Charles
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            @charles

            @leftcoastmountains

            It’s much less about Biden and more about Bernie and the progressive base.

            It doesn’t matter what Biden wants to do. Just like Obama didn’t want to take Social Security cuts off the table.

            After John Conyers threatened to bring thousands of voters to Washington to protest and Bernie rallied millions to challenge his ass Obama miraculously changed his mind.

             

             

            Conyers spills the beans on Obama & SS & jobs bill; call for WH protests

            Hallelujah! Some outspokeness from a Democratic Congress critter, at a higher level than “blame everything on the GOP”.

            From Conyers on Jobs: “We’ve Had It.” Lays Out Obama, Calls for Protest at White House

            At a press conference held by members of the House Out of Poverty Caucus  Rep. John Conyers (D-Mich), the second most senior member of the U.S.  House, was pointed in his criticism of the White House regarding jobs  and cuts to Social Security the President put on the table last week.  “We’ve got to educate the American people at the same time we educate  the President of the United States.  The Republicans, Speaker Boehner or  Majority Leader Cantor did not call for Social Security cuts in the  budget deal. The President of the United States called for that,”  Conyers, who has served in the House since 1965, said.My response to  him is to mass thousands of people in front of the White House to  protest this,” Conyers said strongly….

            https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2011/7/29/1000282/-

             

             

            Sanders and Over 2 Million Others to Obama: Don’t Cut Social Security!

            ~snip~

            “If they vote to cut Social Security, they may not be returning to Washington,” Sanders told the crowd. Protesters held signs reading “No Chained CPI” and “We earned our Social Security.”

            “I am terribly disappointed and will do everything in my power to block President Obama’s proposal to cut benefits for Social Security recipients through a chained consumer price index,” Sanders stated last week….

            https://www.commondreams.org/news/2013/04/09/sanders-and-over-2-million-others-obama-dont-cut-social-security

             

            Right now we’ve got a strong group of progressives in congress lead by AOC, Omar, Tlaib, Khanna etc to help Bernie fight against someone like Biden should they get the nomination.

            Or if we get Trump we already know that Bernie and the progressives will lose those fights. Trump doesn’t give a fuck about what Bernie and progressives do.

            Bernie and AOC have a huge amount of clout in comparison to what Conyers and Sanders had back then. I prefer to let Bernie fight just like he did for us back then.

            To be clear neither scenario is ideal. Trump and Biden both suck. But Bernie has the base in the Dem party and that makes a lot of difference.

             

             

            Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

        • #243745

          ronRonnie1
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          @ronronnie1

          Maybe we can convince Trump to change back to Democrat.  Have a little D next to his name.  Voila!  Problem solved.

  • #243350

    bazukhov
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    @bazukhov

    I won’t vote for Joe in the primary…if he’s still running by the time of my state’s primary.

    I will vote against Trump in the general if he’s isn’t removed or resigned by then.

    Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

  • #243364

    ronRonnie1
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    @ronronnie1

    Couldn’t care less about Trump.  That boogie man doesn’t scare me.

    Bernie or bust.  If that means Trump gets his 2nd term, then it means Trump gets his 2nd term.  SorryNotSorry.

  • #243382

    lownslow
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    @lownslow

    Third party for me if biden or pete gets it

  • #243384

    Electrolyte Orchestra
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    @electrolyteorchestra

    Replace Biden with Bernie in that OP and then put that question to the establishment Dems.

    Grab some popcorn and watch hypocrisy in action.

    • #243401

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      +1,000,000

      @electrolyteorchestra

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #243391

    djean111
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    @djean111

    Bernie or Green.  A Biden presidency would be more of the same austerity and war.  EIGHT more years.  Nope.  Not being compliant with what the DNC wants.  Never.

    I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

    Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

  • #243457

    Pam2
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    @pam2

    Besides his shitty policies, Biden has something wrong with his brain. I have no idea why anyone would vote for him at this point.

     

  • #243483

    roody
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    @roody

    That should read “If Biden steals the nomination…”

  • #243495

    Maedhros
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    @maedhros

    If the Democratic rank-and-file put half as much effort into pressuring their elected officials to support civil rights, the working class, and the peace movement as they do into shaming progressives into surrendering to Neoliberalism, then we’d see the Democrats go on a long and prosperous win streak.

    But they don’t, and they won’t.

    His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
    but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
    and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
    more deadly than his right had been.

    • #243506

      MistaP
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      @mistap

      they’re machine politicians, they see voters as the enemy

      https://berniesanders.com/ https://www.tulsi2020.com/

      • #243511

        Maedhros
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        @maedhros

        They see voters as a raw material to be harvested.

        His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
        but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
        and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
        more deadly than his right had been.

        • #243533

          MistaP
          Member
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          @mistap

          if that: to a machine boss, they believe they literally gave the urban immigrants their votes, so it in fact doesn’t belong to the voters

          the fastest way to explain D/R differences is that the Pubs were the party of property-owners and the Dems the party of people who’ve been allowed the vote and other civil rights–it explains a damn lot even before the Civil War…

          https://berniesanders.com/ https://www.tulsi2020.com/

  • #243526

    srobert
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    @srobert

    If Biden won the nomination (I don’t think that’s going to happen) I would give him the same chance I gave Hillary to persuade me right up until I vote in the general election. Hillary failed to do so, so I voted Green. I absolutely would not vote for any candidate that refused to support Medicare for All. So I’d give Biden a chance to reverse his position on that. If he fails to do that then that will be his fault, not mine.

    • #243538

      djean111
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      @djean111

      @srobert

      I cannot imagine believing anything at all that a Hillary or a Biden said in order to pander for your vote.  If Biden or any other Vichy Dem is the candidate, I will not need to pay any attention whatsoever to the campaign.  Die is cast.  And I read enough “Bernie, BUT” bullshit last time, to last for the rest of my life.  Just made me lose respect for some people, that’s all.  But Vichy Dems lie and pander and pretty much spit on Bernie’s platform.  If you really think a Biden would change his mind about M4A, and actually follow through – I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.

      I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

      Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

  • #243591

    sadoldgirl
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    @sadoldgirl

    @charles:

    You still don’t get it or you are just “vote blue, no matter who”.

    There is only ONE party, which is the corporate welfare, MIC party.

    The Dems should lose half of their support to change their

    attitude. Unfortunately the Repugs would keep it alive for the

    sake of a pretense “democracy”. Using Trump as scarecrow does

    not work anymore.

  • #243764

    djean111
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    @djean111

    @charles

    I don’t see how or why the DNC Inc.  would take Bernie and/or his supporters seriously at all, or, really, anything but a joke, if we just go ahead and vote for one of their Vichy Dems.

    Here is an idea – the DNC would actually have to be wary of Bernie’s base if Bernie DOES NOT get the nomination.  Also, Pelosi and Corp.  are pretty open and contemptuous now about Bernie’s platform.  “Never going to happen”, etc.  So enough with the blandishments of Bernie actually getting something out of a Vichy Dem presidency.  IMO the DNC would be busily primarying any and all progressives out of office at that point, not giving an inch.

    There is no point to being a Bernie supporter, for me, if I am going to vote for the Vichy Dem.  Eight more years of progressive and people punching.  Absolutely not.  Nope.

    I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

    Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

    • #243773

      Charles
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      @charles

      @djean111

      Did Obama take Bernie and Conyers seriously?

      I want Bernie to win the nomination and the presidency. IF he doesn’t though I’m not giving up on him or his fight.

      What you choose to do is up to you. If you decide to vote for Howie Hawkins should Biden get nominee I respect that.

      Biden is corrupt be it legal or illegal and he certainly sucks on many important issues. Hopefully he will start to drop in the polls as he shouldn’t even be an option.

      I have no faith in the DNC or the party elite. I do have faith in Bernie and his progressive allies.

      And I will give Bernie every opportunity to fight for a better world.

       

       

      Bernie: "Not Me. Us"

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