So many so-called progressives have thrown Sanders under the bus
July 21, 2020 at 12:50 AM - Views: 201 #338889not4saleBlocked
- Total Posts: 254
Odd since this site was formed as a place for progressive Bernie Sanders supporters. I don’t think many are actually progressives. Lots of covidiots, repubs, libertarians, socialists not democratic socialists and, lots of people that insult everything without even bothering to read what’s posted.
There’s so much misinformation posted while 140,000+ Americans have died. Science is truth and the last thing I will ever do is throw people like Bernie Sanders under the bus after he’s spent an entire life trying to help everyone and is still trying to this day.
We live in a corrupt country, it’s been this way for a solid 20 years now. Go ahead and give up, insult me and Sanders and everyone else trying to tell the truth. I’ll be hanging out with my 100s of Bernie supporting friends that aren’t afraid to be honest.
July 21, 2020 at 12:58 AM #338891
July 21, 2020 at 1:06 AM #338892
July 21, 2020 at 1:29 AM #338901ThouArtThatParticipant
- Total Posts: 4,003
Pretty broad strokes one is painting with that brush.
This citizen contributed hard earned cash to Bernie in both 2016 and 2020.
And how did Bernie repay that trust? He threw is supporters under the bus demanding we vote for a vichy dem – Joe Biden.
And most recently, Bernie voted for the CARES act – the largest upward transfer of wealth in American history.
Since Bernie squandered his political capital, he can beat his chest until laid to rest and it will mean nothing.
Likewise, one can brow beat citizen’s like myself all one wants.
And just like Bernie’s bleating, it will just be hot air because the facts are the facts.
Such is reality where politics are concerned.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
- Jiddu Krishnamurti
"Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
- Idries Shah
July 21, 2020 at 1:29 AM #338902Two way streetParticipant
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with those in power in the Vichy Democratic Party. Bernie has ask you to vote for Biden. Bernie ask you to vote for Clinton too. Bernie’s recent group work with the Biden camp has ended in complete failure if what I have read is true. Bernie looks dismal and can tell us nothing that he has accomplished with Joe as far as Progressive issues go, other than he is still hoping (that conservative joe will change his Vichy Platform.
2020 Campaign Season: We the People are in the fight for our lives and livelihoods.
July 21, 2020 at 1:44 AM #338907bazukhovParticipant
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Differences of opinion are what make horse races. Mark Twain
Bernie lost because he was unable to convince enough voters to support some of his policies. i.e. M4A vs Public Option.
In the end we are stuck, as usual, with a choice between lesser evils or the satisfaction of not voting or voting for a horse that’s sure to lose.
Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites
July 21, 2020 at 2:10 AM #338915lownslowParticipant
- Total Posts: 510
@not4sale you sound young, give it some time, ive seen the media take down mcgovern, jesse jackson, mlk, (they were cruel to him until his death), howard dean, bernie, etc. No true progressive will get in without a true revolution . Bernie folded twice without a fight. He was probably our last chance, its tic toc for mother earth. Dont stop fighting but the future looks grim. I cant get many on here to give some love to tim canovas paper ballot effort but that is a good place to focus effort. Btw tim canova had a good shot at upsetting dws but bernie did him no favors. I still love bernie but he was a half assed sheepdog. He had 2 primaries blatantly openly stolen and said nothing, Peace to you and your young friends, if you find a worthy organization to join, im ready as well. If you would like some perspective on how long dems have been corrupt (20 years??) Study what they did to henry wallace around 80 years ago
July 21, 2020 at 2:11 AM #338916mmonkParticipant
- Total Posts: 900
We told him we were a movement and he took the job as far he could. Glad he did. But we are only ones who have been thrown under the bus. Not him who in the end could not return the Democratic Party towards progressivism. The party he decided to play ball with in the end. But I thank him for his effort.
Fear not the path of Truth for the lack of People walking on it. - RFK
July 21, 2020 at 2:13 AM #338919sadoldgirlParticipant
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What a very distorted view of what happened!
One does not call for a political revolution with specific
points and programs and then turn around to support
someone, who totally discards these, without throwing
oneself under the bus. Add voter shaming to that as well.
Bernie has become irrelevant due to his own actions. If
you cannot see that, then you play personality politics instead
of looking at the issues. This is just what the HRC admirers did
and still do.
July 21, 2020 at 2:34 AM #338947doh1304Participant
- Total Posts: 1,379
I was asked to help draft a ballot proposition. I found a group within the group trying to derail the effort. I demanded we continue. Then (there was sabotage and corruption, the details of which would take too long) The proposition was rewritten to read as the exact opposite of our intention. I had a choice – I could denounce my own prop or I could hope it passed then fight for the original intention. I chose the later AND I FAILED MISERABLY. Worse than Bernie. I can no more denounce Bernie than I can denounce myself.
Bernie has responded to the failure of his revolution. Call it a failure of courage, call it a failure of morality, call it misplaced priorities. It doesn’t matter what you think. He was on the right side for over 40 years, he didn’t just have the mask fall away now. That sort of decades long hidden treason only happens in incompetent spy fiction.
July 21, 2020 at 2:37 AM #338949So Far From HeavenKeymaster
- Total Posts: 7,297
Then perhaps it is because there is a sense of defeat about that makes it so.
But all of that is illusion.
Bernie, in a sense, was an illusion. An illusion of what could be. Not the hard reality of what is. How long did it take for women to win the right to vote?
Nothing else, just the insanely progressive idea that women should be able to vote and contribute to their own future? Since you may not know the answer, the ‘suffragette movement’ took over seventy (70) years to fruition. So, we have had a recent and significant progressive movement for how long now? Not even close to seventy years. Don’t try and take the Roosevelt ‘great society’ as being progressive beyond a very small set of ideas. You’ll run into the real hard wall of racism very fast if you do. Among many other ‘progressive’ needs and desires even of that time in history.
And think of it another way. A considerable number of the suffragettes paid dearly for their actions. Way the fuck more than any ‘progressives’ have lately. For years and decades.
You think that we are throwing Bernie under the bus?
No, those who fail to see the results of his hard work getting the progressive agenda becoming a national dialogue are throwing him under the bus. Progressives who are children, spoiled rotten children who have no idea what it’s going to take to get the progressive agenda passed into law are throwing Bernie under the bus. Weep long and hard for your ‘face of our cause’. Don’t look long and hard at the future which needs new leaders and new methods and new actions. Bernie won’t be there after a short while. But there had better be someone to take his place, or maybe even a number of others to take his place. Why don’t you go look for them and support them? I intend to.
Meanwhile, I’m going to work on getting progressive things done. Let me know how your crying party ends. You’ll see how the work of those of us that surge ahead with or without Bernie get things done. It may take a while, but I assure you, we will win, and you’ll still be stuck in your dream of Bernie as the only thing progressive.
I think your messiah called it the ‘revolution’ that even he needed in order to win.
Go cry yourselves to sleep, those who weep for Bernie and lash out at those of us who don’t. We’ll get the job done without you.
JackPine Radicals is not Bernie driven. JackPine Radicals is driven by progressives looking for a better future for everyone. Even fucking demented Republicans who can’t see beyond their grubby, dirty, filthy money. We want a better life for them and their children as well as our own.
July 21, 2020 at 2:40 AM #338951jwirrParticipant
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I am keeping all my stickers etc. on my poster board not because I will be able to vote for the policies I believe in but because I am just waiting to be able to say “I told you so.” when shit hits the fan because we do not have even one good candidate to vote for.
I am not anti-Bernie and never will be.
July 21, 2020 at 3:07 AM #338968Ohio BarbarianModerator
- Total Posts: 17,971
Most of us think we didn’t throw Bernie under the bus; he threw us under the bus, twice. Once the bus had Hillary on it and once it had Biden. I am one of those socialists to whom you are referring, and for me, Bernie was the compromise. I will not follow him where he is trying to lead me now. Been there, done that. Never again.
You also say “science is truth.” No it’s not. Science is the extent of humanity’s knowledge in some areas at present. Just a century ago, eugenics was science. European people were thought to be scientifically superior to other races and ethnicities. Franklin Roosevelt himself was taught that eugenics was scientific truth, just like Hitler was. Science is always evolving, always changing. There is no science that explains everything, which is what “truth” implies. Be careful in believing everything that is presented as “It’s science, therefore it’s true.” It usually is, but sometimes it’s not.
Knowing that one doesn’t know is the beginning of wisdom.–Socrates
It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs
Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman
July 21, 2020 at 3:11 AM #338972MistaPParticipant
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“socialists not democratic socialists” heaven forfend!
and if it’s that bad, why are you even on this site?
July 21, 2020 at 3:37 AM #338988xyzseParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,693
You were working under the wrong impression my friend.
“Odd since this site was formed as a place for progressive Bernie Sanders supporters”
Please note, that many migrated here due to the lies of Political Parties, specifically the Democratic Party, as well as their Authoritarian tendencies.
Basically, the premise of this place was to be able to provide a differing opinion that allows criticism of Politicians, no matter who.
I actually like Bernie Sanders and can support quite a bit of his agenda and political positions. In many ways, I think he is a far better man than I. However, no one is perfect and there are many items I can disagree with him with. Case in point, quitting way too early and crushing the Progressive Agenda and many other outsider politicians who are still running in the primaries.
In him quitting that early, and not providing a counterpoint to Biden and showing why it is he who can win, providing why Biden is weak, meant we lost out on whatever chance there may have been. I have been donating to the cause, and have done canvassing and phone banks for Sanders prior. I was hoping to reach $420 by 4/20, but he was gone way before then.
Valid criticism is not an insult.
July 21, 2020 at 3:38 AM #338989Mr. Mickeys MomModerator
- Total Posts: 4,528
… but, if you think that this board is full of covidiots, republicans and libertarians, you’re simply not telling the truth. This board is full of opinions from those who may not agree fully with any one of the components of progressivism, but have a core OF progressivism deep within most of these threads.
You need to understand that science is not truth, but the pursuit of truth... It follows a iterative process requiring that others weigh in with the same experience of what seems to be true.
Demonstrate that process and maybe we’ll have a conversation.
Hell, no... I'm not giving up...
July 21, 2020 at 3:47 AM #338994peacecorpsParticipant
- Total Posts: 2,141
But he crossed the one ‘red line’ that the ‘keyboard warriors’ of the world (of which I am a proud member) could not condone.
He decided that his life-long work for progressive policies was best served by aligning with Biden to defeat Trump, in what the latter calls their ‘radical left pact. His ‘imperfection index’ increased dramatically at that point.
Fair enough. Bernie was a vehicle for progressives. He was a ‘means’ not an ‘end’. It disappoints me but I realize that the antithesis of ‘Blue no matter who’ is ‘No Blue no matter what’. Bernie violated the latter. It is what it is. Bernie is a fine man who has popularized progressive policies as few have done before. If his ‘imperfections’ lessen his career in the eyes of some, I suspect he will survive quite well.
The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.
"Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG
National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.
July 21, 2020 at 4:01 AM #338998Jan BoehmermanModerator
- Total Posts: 3,699
So tell me @not4sale , who is throwing Bernie “under the bus”?!!
July 21, 2020 at 4:04 AM #339000A Simple GameParticipant
- Total Posts: 874
There are a few of us that realize Bernie was the only one that would try to beat the corporatism. One thing you never hear is that we should have backed so-and-so instead of Bernie. There was no other choice, no one else dared fight the powers that control our government. Bernie dared twice and what did it get him? Spite and derision. Who else stood up to the Clintons… Obama… anyone got a name for this would be champion? Does anyone think Obama sang kumbaya to Bernie? Not me.
As for backing Biden? If you didn’t know Bernie was going to back the Democratic nominee then you weren’t paying attention. Bernie’s obviously thinks Trump is a bigger threat to the Country than Biden. He’s probably right. Did he think Hillary would be a safer bet than Trump, likely, again maybe he was right. He does have, despite what many here say, a very good track record and good political sense.
A smart person knows when to cut their losses, Bernie is a smart man. And unlike most in our government, he does try to do what is best for the people and the Country, not what’s best for himself. Maybe Bernie is trying to cut our losses too. All the shoulda, coulda, wouldas in the world won’t fix any of our problems. If backing candidates like Bernie was a mistake, I will be making that mistake again and again. At least Bernie hasn’t given up and is trying to salvage what he can.
July 21, 2020 at 4:10 AM #339003David the GnomeParticipant
- Total Posts: 2,740
Throw him under the bus? Perhaps. You see, for a lot of us, Bernie was our best (and perhaps even only) chance at having things that most people take for granted – like health insurance. It was once the case for me – until the disability/medicaid thing became my reality. I supported Bernie very early on – because I admired his honesty, his passion, I believe he was fighting so that everyone, even punks like me, could have some kind of opportunity, some kind of greater equality, in the scheme of things. I watched as the media and politicians mocked him – and I despised them all for it.
In 2016, Bernie did what I expected he would do – but he held on, in his campaign. He held on to show others what could be done… or perhaps he did it because he really believed he could make some of the changes he spoke of. I do not know. It is true that all of it would have been very hard, that it was always a long shot in the dark in the corrupt political climate. When he spoke of getting millions to march though – I believed he was right, I believed that we would go, to make that difference.
Then I watched the 2020 primaries, same as everyone here. The polls told us Bernie was sure to win, sure to sweep various states. Then we heard about the various attempts at cheating (the shadow app/group), we saw the discrepancies in polls in places like MA – discrepancies that would have caused most Nations considerable concern – enough to have another vote. 15% is way the heck beyond the margin for error, as they call it. Yet the powers in the media and political world asked few questions, for the most part. Those of us who did were shouted down, mocked, laughed at. Surely the great democracy in the U.S. could not be so easily cheated!
I am certain of very little – but I suspect a great deal – and for good reason. Is Bernie the man I believed he was? Perhaps. He never said anything other than that Joe was his good friend – and really, we all should have known he was going to support him if he lost. I would have been okay with that if I believed Bernie had lost honestly, in a real contest. I believe the other side cheated and then used their whole political/media machine to make a mockery of everything that he – and many of us were trying to work for. Yeah, that sucked. That sucked really bad. So I could not understand why he did not call them out on it, why he did not further challenge the democrats or the corruption. I’m still not sure I get it, really. Perhaps it is caution being the better part of valor, perhaps he values his own life, family and wealth – and perhaps someone threatened that. Or perhaps he just thinks Biden will be better than Trump.
I do not know. I do feel like he abandoned the movement for which he had become at least a leading figurehead. I still do not know why and probably never will. I will never feel like it was okay to capitulate to the usual suspects. Yet it is what it is – and I must accept the reality that there is no Presidential candidate, or political party that really represents my interests – or even those of most Americans. Letting go is hard. I was a long-time democrat from a family of fanatic democrats. Now I am something different. I do not rightly know what to call it.
I’m not interested in hurting Bernie. I am interested in helping my fellow Americans. I am most interested in helping the poor and working class, the disabled, the hungry, those in need of medicine they cannot afford. I am sad and furious with what a mess the politicians have made of things. I do not know how to change it – but I will keep on trying, as much as I can.
I believe that all of us deserve better from those who mean to lead us.
July 21, 2020 at 4:48 AM #339028Captain ArizonaParticipant
- Total Posts: 262
I have noticed jackpine radicals site has been mention not only on dnc establishment sites but even other sites including conservative sites like ace of spaces and patterico’s pontifications. Maybe a few of them are lurking here. The progressive movement now has more leaders then just Bernie Sanders now like the squad and more will be elected 2020. Progressives are on the “long march!”
July 21, 2020 at 5:26 AM #339096MaedhrosParticipant
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Sanders is capable of making mistakes, being co-opted, and knuckling under just like any other politician.
Sanders should be – and has been – praised for the good things he does, and criticized for the bad things he does. Chiding us for noticing the bad things is ineffective and pointless. That’s what Democratic Party fools do: elevate politicians as infallible personalities to which we must swear our fealty or be denounced.
I stopped tolerating that far before I abandoned SV. I hope this kind of behavior doesn’t pollute JPR as well.
His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
more deadly than his right had been.
July 21, 2020 at 5:31 AM #339098EarthartistParticipant
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He will always been known for his efforts to do the right thing, I will always respect what he has done. That being said I do not have to follow him into the Biden world, that was his choice. He said nary a word about the cheating, he walked away from his very loyal supporters, not followers. Bernie demanded we all follow him down the no healthcare rd, more war rd, more money going to the pentagon rd with joe biden. I will not support Bernie’s choice here and will go down the road that a lot of my JPR friends are. Working on helping those who will find themselves in a horrid place soon. Helping BLM where I can . Working on environmental issues, and always fight the war economy. Bernie chose to throw his weight and support to someone who will do nothing to improve any of those issues, he has no right to demand I respect that or follow that decision. It is the same with some of the amazing Black leaders in congress who when they were leaders they were awesome! Now they are part of the oligarch system.
July 21, 2020 at 5:50 AM #339105Ohio BarbarianModerator
- Total Posts: 17,971
@maedhros Not without and entirely different admin and mod team, it won’t. I swear it. I remember Jonestown. Cults of personality have no place here.
It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs
Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman
July 21, 2020 at 5:55 AM #339108Red CloudParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,489
You have lots of things to say, but they belong in different threads.
But thanks for the conflation. It was HILLARY-ious!
Lots of covidiots, repubs, libertarians, socialists not democratic socialists and, lots of people that insult everything without even bothering to read what’s posted.
July 22, 2020 at 2:46 AM #339423SinMentiras SinVerguenzaParticipant
- Total Posts: 55
I will always appreciate most of what Bernie did up until he dropped out. However, I don’t appreciate how, why, and when he dropped out. He allowed Barack INC. to fuck us over yet again and didn’t even have the temerity to call out that puss pocket of a former president.
During his campaign, Bernie railed against the PTB and stated his intention to take on the MIC, the RNC, AND the DNC. With the exception of WalMart, he really didn’t pointedly go after those entities full bore. And he should have Johnson … he really should have.
Just like allowing all the shenanigans of the Iran hostages, the Iraq war crimes, and the Afghan war crimes by the GOP helped to bring us Trump; allowing all of the chicanery and cheating of the 2016 primary without demanding serious changes and repercussions which allowed them to Zerlina Tanden Bernie’s campaign a second time. (yes, Zerlina Tanden should be a verb which is defined as smiling backstabbery of progressive principles)
And that is really what is infuriating as hell. Because he did not slam the undemocratic primary process and shine a light on the fetid corpse-like smell that passes for primaries in our elections; in the future the next Bernie or Bernice will have to fight that battle all over again. In that respect, Bernie has treated Barack and the composted DNC like Kamala Harris treated Steve (no chin) Mnuchin and this will have a similar deleterious effect on future progressive campaigns.
July 22, 2020 at 3:26 AM #339445
July 22, 2020 at 3:46 AM #339463JonLPParticipant
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Look at the exit polls. Most voters supported medicare for all in pretty much every state until Bernie dropped out and probably every state after but also according to the exit polls they felt Biden more likely to beat Trump (Trump is beating himself) & the coronavirus for some reason voters felt he could handle that better. You also are leaving out the propaganda from the 24/7 news channels.
The blue no matter who people here would do better acknowledging others arguments which are largely based on facts. The idea that medicare for all is why Bernie lost isn’t backed up by the exit polls.
Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba
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