Soul damaging news I saw on Reddit

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    • #445702
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,376

      Bad enough that I want to break it gently, and while it’s not about me, it also leaves me chagrined as it is about someone I’ve been touting.

      Very challenging to see that the standards I hold aren’t always going to be the ones that the people I admire will always agree with.

      This also an opportunity to appreciate a moment to be humble.

    • #445707
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,376
    • #445740
      Pam2
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,073

      I saw this mentioned in the comments on a Jimmy Dore live stream.  Maybe she will stay a while and then leave like Jimmy did. Don’t let it hurt your soul, jeez. I guess she needed a job.

       

       

    • #445747
      gordyfl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,857

      I can already see Cenk and Anna ganging up on Nina. I don’t see Nina giving up her progressive ideas just because she’s a member of TYT. She could end up being booted from the show.

      It could turn into that old 60 Minutes segment Point – Counter Point. I’ll wait and see how the show developes.

    • #445773
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,674

      Because at the end of the day, she wants the money. She probably thinks she can take the money and yet also retain her integrity. That she won’t have to do anything for it in exchange, that it will rain wealth and power … ‘just because.’ Or ‘because I am as wonderful as they say I am!’

      And she would be right that there would be no explicit quid pro quo but if she takes the money then she damn sure better vote as Nancy Pelosi tells her to, and on votes where it doesn’t matter because Democrats have a surplus of necessary ‘yes’ votes to pass something, get Nancy’s permission in advance to vote ‘No’ so as to as least have something to point to and say, ‘LOOK what a rebel I am!’. Kabuki Theater 101.

      She didn’t win, so we won’t find out this term whether she is strong or weak. But she joins TYT to keep her face out there, make a little cash and help keep traditional Democratic voters in the party.

      Sigh. SS. DD.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #445787
        Jim Lane
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 883

        @closeupready

        She ran as a Democrat because she wanted to get to Congress and have an influence on actual policy, instead of just giving speeches or writing op-eds or being interviewed on podcasts. She knew that, in that district, the next Congressmember would be whoever won the Democratic primary.

        After a quarter of a century of Green Party organizing, and after five years of Movement for a Peoples Party organizing, there was not the slightest ghost of a chance that either of those parties could mount a serious challenge. If she had run on one of their lines (assuming either of them even has a ballot line) or as an independent, she would have won hosannas on JPR for her brave stand against the Democratic Party. She also would have gotten clobbered. By running as a Democrat, she had a realistic shot at winning, and she came close.

    • #445829
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,888

      Living in her congressional district, I and others here saw the early warning signs during the special election campaign. Early on, Turner refused to even discuss foreign policy, and refused to criticize Joe Biden or the Squad for deliberately failing to even try to deliver on their campaign promises. Then she brought out AOC and Bernie Sanders to campaign for her, when the leftists in this district(and there are many, no matter what somebody from SV will say), had already written them off as the elitist Democrat shills they are. See the comments on her Facebook page if you want some confirmation.

      She’s going to TYT for the money, and to establish her celebrity politician cred so that maybe, just maybe, if she sucks up just enough, she can get some lucrative Democratic Party post in the future.

      I am so glad I didn’t send her any money the last time out.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #445875
        Yanath
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,094

        Most people don’t recognize it as corruption, because they don’t understand that when one enters the realm of public service, any motive other than a desire to work for a more just society is, by definition, a corruption of it’s organizational system. The whole point of organized society, is to benefit the collective, and increase its probability for survival, not to enrich individuals, which undermines it instead.

        • #445878
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 21,888

          AOC is a member of Congress, and therefore a powerful person. Nina Turner was a State Senator, and gained at least a lot of potential power by her visibility on the Sanders campaign. AOC demonstrated her corruption by being dishonest, pledging to fight for progressive goals in Congress and then refusing to do so. Nina Turner claims she’s a progressive, but is now on TYT, which is a demonstrably dishonest media outlet, and she knows that.

          She also knew that both Bernie Sanders and AOC were corrupt because they endorsed Joe Biden, a proven Fascist, and then shamelessly did his bidding once he was elected. Now she’s teaming up with those people’s biggest cheerleaders. That’s all I need to know about her.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #445883
      Yanath
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,094

      @ohiobarbarian

      I’m not disagreeing with anything you’ve said here. I’m saying the typical American doesn’t do ethics at all, because they don’t even know what it means.

      And corruption isn’t just a legal term. The US system is corrupted in many ways which are perfectly legal. What it really means, is simply undermining the integrity of an organizational system, by making it work for something for which it wasn’t intended.

    • #445889
      Satan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,307

      Jimmy Dore associating with FUCKING NAZIS and pushing Alex Jones type disinformation about horse medicine is perfectly fine, but Nina Turner associating with TYT is “soul damaging”.

      Between this and the thread yesterday with some right wing homophobe whining about “wokeness” I’m starting to think I’m in some parallel universe where RimJob Robinson owns Jackpine Radicals.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

      • #445896
        Babel 17
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 5,376

        And I agree that at times it seems we’re in an alternate universe, one where progressives slurp down any and all Kool-Aid from the war mongers at CNN, MSNBC, and others in the MSM.

        Seeing Nina Turner being OK with taking money from TYT is the Bizarro World version of seeing Donna Brazile becoming a highly paid contributor at Fox News, after years of them mocking each other. That was deeply funny, this is just deeply sad.

      • #445913
        retired liberal
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,341

        I stopped with watching Jimmy Dore last spring. He was getting too smug and self righteous.
        Also when some public person makes a mistake or says something not far enough Left to suit JPR and suddenly that perdon are liars forever after. They can never do anything right ever again. Some people here don’t know what the word “liar” means, really.
        Nor do too many here know how public life works. It is not like getting your way with a group of friends at a party. Not at all. There has to be a lot of compromise and favors, to get anything done.

        I can see needing a course correction before JPR goes off the rails. Too many otherwise reasonable good people are getting thrown under the buses here.

        We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
        The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
        Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.
        Don't forget that the S in IoT stands for Security.

      • #445965
        closeupready
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,674

        Jimmy Dore is, by his own admission, a pothead nightclub comedian.  He does interviews with personalities involved in current events.  If you are referring to that guy from the Boogaloo Bois, the First Amendment protects speech you like and speech you don’t like.  Not sure what your problem with that is.  As a disclaimer, I have ZERO idea what the Boogaloo Bois is other than lots of people here made a big deal about that interview and said “Nazi” in reference to him and/or the group, but again, I have ZERO idea what their connection is with Naziism, Hitler or the Third Reich.  He and his group are not important, but if someone wants to give me a summary of the connection (not a link to a treatise on the matter, please), I’d appreciate it.

        Setting all that aside, don’t watch Jimmy Dore if you don’t want.  Simple, right?  Continue to follow Nina Turner and her stuff on TYT, if you want.  Simple, right?  Why does everyone else, both here on JPR and elsewhere, need to do what YOU do in order to avoid being “nazi sympathizers”…?  I’m kind of offended by that implication.

        People will come and go.  That’s the nature of a message board.  Who among us still posts on SV?  Not me, not even a sock puppet account.  But who am I to chastise other people for doing so.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #445980
        Pam2
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 9,073

        @satan

        Again, Jimmy Dore interviewed that guy ONE TIME. And the guy claimed to NOT be a Nazi. Get over it! He’s never been on again. He’s not “associating” with Nazis.

        What disinformation is he spreading on Ivermectin? It has been used to treat humans around the world. Jimmy was having side effects from the Covid vaccine and his own dr. prescribed it for him. The real disinformation on it is the mainstream media’s insistence that it’s only a horse drug. It’s a coordinated smear campaign against something that might help people because Pfizer can’t make money off it.

         

         

         

         

        • #446056
          closeupready
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,674

          with regard to Boogaloo Bois, I did some research myself, and basically Boogaloo Bois seems to be simply a loosely organized anti-establishment political group, run on Facebook and other internet media, started originally by white supremacists, but today it has a membership which has steered toward a libertarian direction.

          And note, white supremacy as a global populist idea predated naziism by centuries, having found fertile ground right here in the United States, believe it or not, in the institution of the enslavement of Africans, and later the Ku Klux Klan.  In addition, naziism as a political philosophy rose in popularity in post-Weimar Germany, being inspired by – ready for this? – the Jim Crow South of the United States.

          “In the 1930s, the Germans were fascinated by the global leader in codified racism—the United States.”

          https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/11/what-america-taught-the-nazis/540630/

          Thus, it’s as stupid/ignorant to argue that white supremacists are nazis as it is to argue that Israel’s critics are anti-semitic/nazi sympathizers.

          The libertarian side of the movement becomes enraged when referred to as a “white supremacist group,” said JJ MacNab, research fellow at George Washington University’s Program on Extremism. She said there are some Black and Hispanic members.

          “The earlier boogaloos were white supremacist,” MacNab said. “The ones that came later did not inherit that side of the belief system. Most of them aren’t even aware of white supremacy in subsets of the movement until they read it in the newspapers. A vast majority on Facebook are adamantly against it.”

          The boogaloo bois’ relationship to antifa – left-leaning, anti-racist groups that monitor and track the activities of neo-Nazis – is murkier. The libertarian side of the movement is split between members who see antifa as communists, whom they want to dissociate from, and members who see them as “brothers-in-arms,” MacNab said.

          https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/06/19/what-is-boogaloo-movement/3204899001/

          I recognize that Satan was just going for a convenient slam, but that’s sort of what made SV such a waste of time, and I’d like to make sure when people do so, it doesn’t go on recklessly.


          @Pam2
          @Satan  @retiredliberal

          The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

          • #446083
            Pam2
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 9,073

            @closeupready

            I actually watched that Dore show interview with the Boogaloo Boy and he did sound like a Libertarian to me- pro drug legalization, pro gun rights, and as I said before he denied being racist. Whatever he is, why is Jimmy Dore not allowed to do journalism by interviewing the guy? It doesn’t mean he joined the group! Sheesh.

             

             

          • #446088
            Satan
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 5,307

            What cracks me up is that the fool who appeared on Dore’s program also claimed he supported “Medicare for All”.

            You can’t have Medicare for ANYBODY without a government, so that’s a literal contradiction. And you also don’t start race wars if you aren’t a racist, because what would be the point of that?

            As to the German Nazis being “inspired” by the US… of course they were. They were literally funded by the Bush Crime Family, and old Grandpa Prescott was a big fan of the Eugenics thing. And of course the Jim Crow KKK apartheid south provided a great boiler plate for old Adolf.

            Not sure what that has to do with Dore promoting the Boogaloo Nazis though. Hitler lost World War II. That should have been the end of Naziism. The morons who think it was a “good idea” and are trying to bring it back here should be treated like the treasonous terrorist shitbags that they are, and they definitely should not be aided and abetted by people who call themselves “progressives”, “leftist” or even “liberal”. Or even “jagoff comedian”, for that matter.

            "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

            • #446090
              closeupready
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 2,674

              …..

              The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #446206
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,888

        For everything you said here was either a distortion or a lie. Jimmy Dore had ONE self-described Bugaloo Boy on ONCE, because that guy contacted Dore, and if you watched the interview it was pretty clear Jimmy Dore is not at all sympathetic to Nazism. For that matter, the Bugaloo Boy in question denied even being a right-winger or a Trumper; he saw himself as something of a populist libertarian. And Jimmy Dore disagreed with him on several points. It was a civil interview, which I found refreshing.

        Liberals are now taking the position that anyone who even talks to a right-winger is a right-winger themselves, which is a contemptible lie. Some members of my extended family are Republicans, and people like you will not keep me from talking to them, as Jimmy Dore’s wife once said. You can take your guilt by association and shove it. I’m sure there’s room in Hell for that.

        The assertion that Jimmy Dore ever promoted Ivermectin is a bald-faced lie. He never did. He did say he was prescribed a version of Ivermectin, as are lots of other people, but it was prescribed for another medical reason, not as a treatment for Covid. If anything, he said he didn’t know if it was any good for treating Covid or not. BTW, the Rolling Stone story that Oklahoma hospitals were filling up with people overdosing on Ivermectin was also a total lie, according to the hospital district.

        Your precious liberal media outlet didn’t even check their source, they just ran the story because they knew people like you would go all a-gaga at the thought of stupid Trumpers poisoning themselves. Right-wingers die because they are stupid! Rah-rah! Personally, I’m sick of that kind of schadenfreude. It strikes me as pretty sick.

        As for wokeness, lots of people despise it, but not because they’re homophobic. I despise it myself, because I’m a Marxist and I see it as a deliberate distraction of attention away from the real problems that afflict my civilization, which are the capitalist economic system and oligarchical political systems that control the United States.

        And yet again, you smear anyone who questions “wokeness” as being a homophobic right-winger. I just went to a wedding of an in-law of mine, who married a transgender woman. They’re both in their late 60s or early 70s, BTW, but if I was a homophobe because I think wokeness is bullshit, I certainly wouldn’t have gone.

        You have the right to push that identity politics nonsense all you like on JPR, but I and others have the equal right to completely disagree with you, and it doesn’t make us Trumpers or bigots. As for who runs JPR, he is a lot more tolerant of a divergence of opinion than either you or I, and that’s a good thing as far as I am concerned. He’s also an atheist.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #446273
        The Red Menace
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,106

        I can’t stand either Cenk and his enormous watermelon of a head or Jimmy and his constant batboy screechings. Both operations are, IMO, entirely counter-productive to information or thought and are, as ever, just posturing and self-advertising.

        But then I’ve discovered that I can’t stomach liberalism in any of its myriad and myopic forms anymore. Nina Turner joining TYT just makes be shrug and go “what did you expect?”

        While I believe Sanders’ heart is in the right place, the reality is that he was still pushing liberalism. Which meant, basically he created a nice space for people to jump in and ride his coattails without actually interacting with or engaging with any actual leftist ideas – sorry sweeties, “maybe tax a guy to pay for a thing” ain’t leftism. Basically Sanders out himself out there to become a springboard for opportunists to take advantage of. And while a part of me still hopes that people like Turner and Ocasio-Cortez will shake it off and move in the right direction… I dunno man they’ve had plenty of time.

    • #446252
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,727

      I would suggest to Satan that he take Molly Ivins advice about the first rule of holes and stop digging, but seeing where he lives, would it do any good?

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #446258
      Thom Paine
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 317

      This thread is a good example. If we get a progressive elected some on the left immediately attack them. Oh they always seem to have justification. I don’t know if AOC sold out, but she does speak out for issues very counter to Pelosi.  Pelosi hates her, she is attractive, has a personality and speaks for progressive issues, everything Pelosi hates.

      It’s very easy to say what you think she should be doing but she is there and we are not. She and her cohorts have had some influence and that’s really all we should expect when they are out number 35 to 1.

      But she makes an easy target.  I would love it if she did more but willing to trust her because she is there and I am not.  Pelosi and her DCCC will try to get her primaried. Will that make her critics happy?  Would Crowley or a GOP be better?

      The same goes for Nina Turner.  We must get progressive elected.

      Those that are critical of Nina Turner, AOC and the Squad, who do you see doing a better job for the progressive cause?

       

      • #446267
        closeupready
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,674

        In response to your question, I think this expression is apt, because the idea is you get from point A to point B one step at a time. One fight at a time. That is, you fight your own fights, YOU do your bit to advance progressive causes.

        Progressive causes will NEVER be advanced by signing over your agency to celebrities like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez or Bernie Sanders. Instead, individuals have to defend themselves and their beliefs, fight their own fights. That is how progress is advanced, on a broad level, IMO.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #446329
          Thom Paine
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 317

          to overcome the power of the Elite. I am going to push for the only viable method that I see.  Elect progressives and have their backs. While they might not be perfect they are better than the Joe Crowley’s or the GOP.

          It’s easy to attack but harder to offer another route.

          • #446345
            closeupready
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 2,674

            A lot of people seem to confuse the difference, which is sad and even painful, IMO. And it’s a hard truth to learn.

            More generally, if people consider their elected officials as if they were their friends, then there’s just no common ground on which to build bridges.

            Because to me, lying at the heart of my view of democracy as to what the relationship between the public and its servants amounts to, is that the relationship is adversarial, that the public servant will NEVER – in fact – be you, and they will NEVER serve your interests if do not demand it. Not if you send them flowers, or candy, or make nice tweets/posts. You want to get to point B? You DEMAND it of your elected officials. Their job, yes, is to navigate as best they can through the halls of Congress to get you there.

            If they fail to get you to point B, you send them flowers and candy, right? Of course not. You get someone else to get you there. See how that works? Crowley failed, and AOC replaced him. Now she’s failing her constituents. So time to hire someone else, or at least, make demands of her that she start delivering on her campaign promises like Medicare for All.

            I will say this much – that if she DID give us Medicare for All, I think that – if I were one of her constituents, that I would never be able to vote for anyone else, no matter what else she did. If that makes me weak, I suppose then yes, I am weak. But it would be such a monumental improvement in the lives of millions of ordinary Americans, that how much bad would she have to do to outweigh a good of that magnitude?

            The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #446288
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,888

        We elect some progressive Democrats to Congress. They say good things, but openly refuse to exercise their power in a closely divided Congress to demand things progressives want be enacted into law. They had the ability to block Nancy Pelosi from being Speaker in exchange for a floor vote on Medicare for All. They refused to exercise that power, saying there were committee assignments at stake, and they got none of them that they said they wanted! 

        They could have blocked Biden’s infrastructure plane for either the Green New Deal or an increase in minimum wage or any number of other things and meekly went along with what the Democrat leadership, which is corrupt as fuck and you know it, wanted.

        What does being “supportive” and loyal to these worthless politicians accomplish, other than telling them that you will continue to support them no matter what they do or don’t do because they make pretty speeches and Tweet a lot, while doing nothing?

        At least those of us who openly criticize them are letting them know that we will no longer support them. They don’t seem to care much about that, either, because they are corrupt, and because lots of progressive voters are acting like members of some celebrity fan club with AOC-style politicians as the celebrities. They make hundreds of thousands of dollars in speaking fees and get invited to galas; you get none of your goals accomplished

        Support corrupt politicians if you want. A lot of us won’t.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

        • #446326
          Thom Paine
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 317

          So far the only viable option I see available is to elect the most progressive people we can find even though this is near impossible because the establishment fights us at every turn and the so-called moderates don’t want to rock-the boat.
          One reason that it’s hard to get young progressives to challenge incumbents is that they see how other progressives that are successful are treated. Currently the most progressive HoR reps are treated badly by the GOP, Pelosi and her neoliberal DCCC and some on the left whose expectations are very high.
          I will agree that most politicians are beholden to their big money donors. I also agree that changing the system, defeating the big money is most likely impossible.
          Blame the GOP, blame Pelosi and the Dem elite, but what good does it do to tear down the only progressives in Congress? And disparaging them isn’t holding them accountable.
          Yes they could vote with the GOP to oppose Pelosi, but they might have to change parties when reelction time comes around.
          I’ve worked with people in local politics that are in the similar postion as the HoR progressives. They want change but don’t have the votes and have to compromise.
          We need to elect more progressives not tear down the ones that manage to get elected.

          • #446474
            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 21,888

            I say this because of what they have actually done, and have refused to do. They are traitors to the causes which they espouse, and should be treated as such by all progressive activists and others who share the same goals.

            It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

            You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

            • #446484
              Thom Paine
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 317

              Anyone in Congress?

              And what actions do you recommend for citizens to reform our government?

              • #446486
                Ohio Barbarian
                Moderator
                • Total Posts: 21,888

                It means nothing, in this sense in the electoral sphere. Without direct action that scares the shit out of the politician, and that means strikes and protests and what-not, there will be no peaceful reforms enacted by the current government that accomplish the changes the people of this country need.

                Since I’m to damned old to really get involved in that sort of thing, I will engage in what Trotsky called “revolutionary apathy.” I will not participate in rigged elections anymore, and certainly will not support any Democrats, because I am convinced that the Party always changes the elected politicians, and not the other way around, ever. If you continue to support Democrats, IMHO you are enabling Fascists. That’s all there is to it. Of course, the same goes for most Republicans, with maybe a few libertarian-minded ones being the exceptions, but I couldn’t bring myself to vote for any of them, either.

                I will just wait and see what happens. There is nothing else I can do. I have no power.

                It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

                You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #446269
      Hobbit709
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,649

      What she chooses to do doesn’t damage my soul.

      See how she does on there before making any accusations about souls.

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

      • #446289
        Babel 17
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 5,376

        I thought it obvious that I was speaking personally, or I would have delineated that point.

        And by Nina Turner taking a position at TYT there’s going to be an automatic bit of validation for them. They are warmongers, and they shouldn’t be getting their credibility increased. The waging of war is as life or death an issue as there is, and we’ve got the blood of innocent lives in Syria and Libya all over us, in great quantities. The TYT remains OK with that, and at times urged for more of it.

    • #446444
      Scott Crowder
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 622

      How dare Nina give TYT any cred?
      I’m suspicious now of the People’s Party.
      A CIA placebo party?
      Nina gave it cred too and she’s a fake.

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