Stop Trusting Viral Videos-A controversial video of Catholic students clashing with American Indians appeared to tell a simple truth. A second video called…

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    • #15020
      game meat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,242

      …that story into question. But neither shows what truly happened.

      A long, but interesting breakdown on how multiple videos can tell multiple truths. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2019/01/viral-clash-students-and-native-americans-explained/580906/

      This part was interesting: “But rather than drawing conclusions about who was vicious or righteous—or lamenting the political miasma that makes the question unanswerable—it might be better to stop and look at how film footage constructs rather than reflects the truths of a debate like this one. Despite the widespread creation and dissemination of video online, people still seem to believe that cameras depict the world as it really is; the truth comes from finding the right material from the right camera. That idea is mistaken, and it’s bringing forth just as much animosity as the polarization that is thought to produce the conflicts cameras record.”

      So was this: “That’s not just because the internet makes it easy to come to simple and quick conclusions, and to spread those answers as truth before verification. It’s also because such an edit almost seems purpose-built to service that conclusion. It juxtaposes an almost perfect avatar for apparent white nationalism, <span class=”smallcaps”>MAGA</span> hat and all, with the apparent cultural frailty of a brown-skinned victim carrying out an act of indigenous humility. Whether Sandmann and Phillips are telling the truth or not matters only marginally—the image and the clip take on a life of their own, reproducing a conflict that viewers have already been primed to seek out by the overall political situation and their place in it.”

    • #15035
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 5,224

      Here’s the thing: there are very few facts in this story. Most of it is interpretation—by viewers; talking heads; by participants themselves.

      Fact: the black Hebrews were taunting the (mostly) white MAGATs.

      Motive: they’re a hate group and that what they do, didn’t matter to whom they did it.

      Fact: the white MAGATs began a chant of some sort.

      Motive: could be any number of reasons. They have put forth an explanation after the fact, which does not necessarily reflect the reason during the action.

      Fact: a native elder walked between the groups and faced the boys while bangin a drum and chanting.

      Motive: he gives us a Motive after the fact, which may not necessarily reflect his motive during the action.

      Fact: we all modify explanations and motives in retelling a story. It’s human nature. None of us want to look bad. We can’t dispute documented facts (see above), but we can tweak the motivation behind such facts. Sometimes that is an unconscious act and some times it’s not. Video can capture facts, but it cannot capture Motive.

       

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

      • #15093
        game meat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,242

        Yes I agree that those are the facts. At this point people will see want they want to see for their own reasons.

        I think the main point the author was trying to make was not take these sorts of videos at face value. The longer footage released the following day lead to a conversation that was more complicated than the initial short clip suggests.

        This part talks about how the exchange would be received if filmed from a different perspective. “Consider a change in framing or editing instead: Had the original clip been shot from the reverse angle, showing Sandmann and his classmates from the back, his <span class=”smallcaps”>MAGA</span> hat visible but not his smirk, the meaning of the situation would have also changed. No longer does the student represent the worst stereotype of white intolerance, but now he becomes a mere prop for Phillips, whose drumming reads as both pacifist in its delivery and reception. My point is not to apologize for the students’ behavior, or even to explain it, but to underscore how a slightly different video might have convinced the very same viewers who censured the Covington Catholic students to reach exactly the opposite conclusion.”

        Much of the internet is too quick to hop on their high horse and gallop around social media getting their two minutes of hate in based on small soundbites or clips that may or may not represent an accurate picture of reality.

    • #15045
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,695

      There are no facts, only interpretations.    Friedrich Nietzsche

      See above for examples.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #15337
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,849

      I disagree with your list of facts on one point.

      In the long video I saw, the Black Hebrews had their stand up in a spot far from anyone else, and were making their usual (I assume their ‘usual’, because I read they came out to the same spot regularly) speech — not miked, no megaphone.  Initially, everyone else was far away from them.

      Others approached them off and on.  Some stayed and argued, some didn’t.

      The BHebrews didn’t follow anyone, they stayed by their soapbox (or whatever it was they had up).

      At some point rather early on, well before the drummer was there, I noticed some of the schoolboys had left their own group near the steps and were standing closer, off to one side of the BHebrews, listening to the BHebrews.

      The taunting happened sometime after that; it’s unclear to me why.  But the BH had taunted (if that’s what you want to call it) anyone who had engaged with them earlier as well (though one of their group was actually rather polite in the earlier exchanges).

      Myself, I found it rather difficult to determine what exactly was happening during the whole video, even down to the facts you list, because of the large number of people, the distances involved, and the limited perspective — the video I saw appears to have come from the BH themselves.  Easy to hear what they said, hard to hear what anybody else said, for example.

       

    • #15338
      Satan
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,203

      When one hate group goes up against another hate group, neither hate group is innocent. The Hitler Youth kids… errr. … MAGAtts…..  didn’t want to directly confront the crazy black guys who (for whatever reason) think they are “Hebrews” so instead they thought they would get in the face of the Native American elder who ironically was trying to defuse the situation.

      Of course these same MAGAtts also told women at the same event that “It’s not rape if you enjoy it” and they’re known for wearing blackface & screaming racist dragons.h.i.t. at African American basketball players, and these incidents certainly can’t be blamed on the odd cult who are bizarrely trying to claim somebody else’s heritage.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #15413
      Hobbit709
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,804
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