Taiwan for all intents and purposes is an independent country. Deal with it.

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    • #439845
      ArtfromArk
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      From the Japan Times:

      Ayumi Teraoka has argued that the changed historical and strategic contexts make it imperative for Japan and the U.S. to end ambiguity over Taiwan in order to bolster stability in the region. On July 5, Deputy Prime Minister Taro Aso said Japan and the United States would have to help Taiwan in any serious contingency. Japan also broke from tradition in mentioning the importance of stability around Taiwan in its 2021 defense white paper.

      Meanwhile, all persist with a “one China” policy that denies the empirical reality of Taiwan’s existence as an independent country. The legal fiction is buttressed with the pretense of maintaining only commercial relations with Taiwan as a province of China and excluding it from membership in key international organizations, including the United Nations.

      The legal fiction may have passed its use-by date and become subject to the law of diminishing returns.

      To start with, Taiwan’s history is one of mostly independent existence until the 15th century followed by episodic, periodic and extended periods of rule by a mainland dynasty interspersed, in the past 400 years, with the presence of Portuguese explorers, Spanish settlers, Dutch colonizers, Japanese colonial rule (1895-1945) and independent rule.

      In 1945, defeated Japan ceded sovereignty over Taiwan, but to whom was not clarified and the U.S. has held Taiwan’s status as “undetermined.” Importantly, most countries at the 1951 San Francisco Peace Conference said its status was to be determined in accordance with the principles of self-determination enshrined in the U.N. Charter. Of course, Beijing has not exercised sovereignty over Taiwan in any form since the triumph of communism on the mainland in 1949.

      The second important consideration is that Taiwan fully satisfies all criteria of a sovereign independent country with a government in effective control of territory, people and resources. Australia’s current population is around 26 million and Taiwan’s around 24 million. There are around 160 U.N. countries — over 80% of total membership — with a lower population.

      The median population of U.N. member states is only around 6.5 million. Since the 1990s, Taiwan has been a vibrant democracy and an increasingly prosperous one. The IMF estimates Australia’s current GDP as $1.61 trillion, Japan’s as $5.37 trillion and Taiwan’s as $0.68 trillion (almost 20 times the world median). Using purchasing power parity (PPP) dollars, Taiwan’s GDP per capita ($56,959) is more than Australia ($54,891), the EU ($46,888) and Japan ($44,585).

      Taiwan also qualifies for U.N. membership but unfortunately, a Security Council recommendation is required and China would veto any such effort. This does not preclude the General Assembly from adopting an annual resolution declaring that Taiwan is fully qualified to be a member state. Anything else is a stain on the U.N. and the longer the shameful status quo is allowed to continue the deeper the stain seeps into the U.N. body politic.

      Paradoxically, however, China has much more to lose today from any military confrontation that would be a big setback to its economic stability and international reputation. The best way to raise the diplomatic costs of adventurism to China is to recognize Taiwan as a sovereign state, grant it full diplomatic recognition and open full-fledged embassies on a reciprocal basis. Enough of equivocation and legal fictions.

      https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2021/08/09/commentary/world-commentary/taiwan-independent-country/

      “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #439857
      GZeusH
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      Japan ceded sovereignty”  doesn’t sound quite as harsh as “unconditionally surrendered”.   Taiwan is for all intents and purposes what happened when Bugs Bunny sawed off Taiwan from China.

      As China becomes more important in the world economy of the 21st century, and the United States less, the Taiwanese are going to want to hitch their wagon to the stronger team of horses.  However, they are ignorant of the political system on the mainland, having wallowed in American sponsored capitalism for over 70 years.  The mainland Chinese should take an object lesson from German reunification, where East Germany turned out to be a boat anchor for the West.  Their economy can probably carry Taiwan along without too big a drain; but maybe it would be better to place some preconditions on Taiwan before they accept them on to the winning team.

      Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

      • #439936
        ArtfromArk
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        The Japanese military dictatorship, as bad as it was (and it was BAD), still showed respect to Taiwan, and even after the war, a lot of people in Taiwan still preferred to be ruled by Japan, rather than the mainland, which was engulfed in a civil war.

        “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #439863
      soryang
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      Japanese imperialism with American characteristics.

    • #439868
      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 21,777

      Why should we? Besides, a Chinese invasion would be very costly to them, and they know it. I make no predictions, but the Chinese, both PRC and ROC, need to work this out between themselves. IMHO, of course.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

      • #439922
        ArtfromArk
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,616

        China, not so much. Although I am a pacifist and supporter of Japan’s anti-war Article 9, I would support Japan’s efforts to protect Taiwan against an invasion from the Chinese mainland.

        “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

        • #439941
          GZeusH
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          • Total Posts: 4,267

          In another 20 years, Taiwan will be knocking on the door of the PRC, begging to be let in to the world’s biggest economy.   And the mainland Chinese would be wise to have some pre-conditions before they are allowed to join.

          Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

          • #440014
            Jim Lane
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            • Total Posts: 865

            @gzeush

            You write:

            In another 20 years, Taiwan will be knocking on the door of the PRC, begging to be let in to the world’s biggest economy.

            Why would Taiwan want to subject itself to rule from Beijing just because PRC has the world’s biggest economy? In all the years of the U.S. having the world’s biggest economy, I didn’t see Canada, or even the Bahamas, knocking on our door and begging to be let in. And that was a situation where, if they had been let in, their people would have been able to elect some members of the national legislature and thus have at least some voice in their fate. Taiwanese entry into the PRC would be a complete forfeiture of any measure of self-determination, barring a highly unlikely democratic revolution on the mainland.

            • #440026
              GZeusH
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              • Total Posts: 4,267

              We had to steal the southwest from Mexico, and in Hawaii we overthrew the monarchy.  They were ethnically different.  Taiwan is ethnically and culturally Mandarin. Maybe separated by 70 years of history, but still.

              Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

              • #440039
                Jim Lane
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 865

                @gzeush

                You write:

                 Taiwan is ethnically and culturally Mandarin.

                And the thirteen colonies were ethnically and culturally British.  Ethnicity and culture are not everything.  Furthermore, a lot of the culture has diverged since the de facto independence of Taiwan 70 years ago.  Notable is political culture.  Few Taiwanese are clamoring to give up their multiparty representative government and put themselves under the rule of the Chinese Communist Party.

        • #439942
          soryang
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          • Total Posts: 1,476

          Who could seriously consider it? Any conflict with China would require either nuclear weapons or a mobilization on the level of WWII.

          The notion of Japan engaging China militarily over a former Japanese colony reveals a complete lack of insight into Asian history and the geopolitical issues involved. Japan doesn’t have a leg to stand on with respect to Taiwan. In my opinion, Japan’s LDP leaders are ready to fight to the last dead American.

          U.S. groups urge Japanese leaders not to oppose no-first-use of nukes
          THE ASAHI SHIMBUN

          August 10, 2021 at 15:55 JST
          https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14414797

          Former U.S. Defense Secretary William Perry and others urged Japanese political party leaders in a letter not to oppose a policy of no-first-use of nuclear weapons expected to be declared by the U.S. government.

          The letter noted that senior Japanese government officials in April expressed opposition to the plan.

          Twenty-six groups and individuals in the United States, including Perry and the Federation of American Scientists, on Aug. 9 sent an open letter to Prime Minister Yoshihide Suga and seven other leaders of Japanese political parties.

          I noticed Suga left out a part of August 6 commemoration speech that spoke of Japan’s unique role and dedication to achieve a nuclear weapons free world. A lot of people don’t believe it was an accident, although he was forced to apologize and said that page of his speech got stuck to another.

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