The ACLU, Prior to COVID, Denounced Mandates and Coercive Measures to Fight Pandemics (Glenn Greenwald)

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    • #444570
      • Total Posts: 3,588

      In a New York Times op-ed this week, the group completely reversed its views, arguing vaccine mandates help civil liberties and bodily autonomy “is not absolute.”

      By Glenn Greenwald


      The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) surprised even many of its harshest critics this week when it strongly defended coercive programs and other mandates from the state in the name of fighting COVID. “Far from compromising them, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties,” its Twitter account announced, adding that “vaccine requirements also safeguard those whose work involves regular exposure to the public.”

      If you were surprised to see the ACLU heralding the civil liberties imperatives of “vaccine mandates” and “vaccine requirements” — whereby the government coerces adults to inject medicine into their own bodies that they do not want — the New York Times op-ed which the group promoted, written by two of its senior lawyers, was even more extreme. The article begins with this rhetorical question: “Do vaccine mandates violate civil liberties?” Noting that “some who have refused vaccination claim as much,” the ACLU lawyers say: “we disagree.” The op-ed then examines various civil liberties objections to mandates and state coercion — little things like, you know, bodily autonomy and freedom to choose — and the ACLU officials then invoke one authoritarian cliche after the next (“these rights are not absolute”) to sweep aside such civil liberties concerns:

      [W]hen it comes to Covid-19, all considerations point in the same direction. . . . In fact, far from compromising civil liberties, vaccine mandates actually further civil liberties. . . . .

      [Many claim that] vaccines are a justifiable intrusion on autonomy and bodily integrity. That may sound ominous, because we all have the fundamental right to bodily integrity and to make our own health care decisions. But these rights are not absolute. They do not include the right to inflict harm on others. . . . While vaccine mandates are not always permissible, they rarely run afoul of civil liberties when they involve highly infectious and devastating diseases like Covid-19. . . .

      (lot more at the link)

      LINK–Substack-GlennGreenwald, The ACLU, Prior to COVID, Denounced Mandates and Coercive Measures to Fight Pandemics


      Between Trump and COVID-19, many brains were broken. The ACLU, prior to this report, wrote 3 other reports on the subject which stated the contrary. May 2020 was the most recent of those reports which stated that Vaccine Passports were a bad idea.

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

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    • #444574
      • Total Posts: 2,608

      that will have the kill rate of the pneumonic form of Yersinia pestis.

      Will everyone be against vaccinations then?

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

      • #444583
        • Total Posts: 4,260

        In any form of human endeavor, there will be some who are completely fucked up in the head as to what to do.  When people are so mixed up in their thinking, religion is usually playing some part.

        Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

      • #445116
        • Total Posts: 1,306

        For most people, it’s not an all-or-nothing approach. There are a few die-hard anti-vaxxers who won’t take ANY. But there are probably a lot more people who have taken other vaccines for other viruses, but just won’t take the COVID ones for one reason or another. That’s common. So it depends on what virus we are talking about. People weigh how dangerous the virus is, their exposure risk, their death risk, and then compare it to the risks of the vaccine and its side effects.

        What if there is a new virus similar to Ebola that spreads like the flu…. you wouldn’t have trouble getting people to take the vaccine for that even if it has bad side effects.

        But what about an HIV vaccine? Some people may say they only have sex with one person (their spouse) and don’t shoot up drugs, so they may feel their risk of getting HIV is extremely remote. They may not think they need the vaccine. I actually think you would have a lot of trouble mandating an HIV vaccine.

        The issue with COVID is it’s not that risky to certain segments of people. If you are young and healthy, your chances of dying is remote. Yes, it can happen. But you can also get hit tomorrow and die by a drunk driver. But that remote possibility won’t stop you from getting in a car tomorrow, will it? Probably not. You willingly accept an element of risk.

    • #444596
      Ohio Barbarian
      • Total Posts: 21,764

      The ACLU has sold out. Guess their new management has something to do with it. Their 2008 position on things health mandates is a good, solid one and the reason is simple: Give the government the ability to restrict freedom of assembly over a health emergency and they’ll use that as an excuse to prohibit freedom of assembly and association for political purposes.

      As has happened to everyone who is trying to petition to get anyone or anything on the ballot.

      Covid is a common cold virus variant that kills a small percentage of unvaccinated people. Vaccines prevent serious illness and death the overwhelming majority of the time. Most vulnerable Americans have been vaccinated. These are the facts.

      There’s also nothing to prevent private businesses and public agencies from prohibiting anyone from coming into personal contact with them or working for them if they refuse to get vaccinated. That’s freedom of association, too. Let things like that work. There’s no need for government restrictions on our freedoms of assembly and association.

      Especially since the virus is now endemic. Lockdowns will not prevent its spread now. Masks and social distancing won’t help much either, no matter how you feel about them. The emphasis should be getting people vaccinated because the vaccines work. That is all.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #444604
      • Total Posts: 1,349

      the ACLU supported the first amendment’s freedom

      of speech. Yet since 2016 they seem unwilling to do so.

      I also have not heard a peep from them when the WH

      wanted to “cooperate” with the corporations to censor

      people on social media. I don’t know what they stand

      for anymore.

    • #444663
      • Total Posts: 3,711

      As usual Greenwald is spot on. The main point of this piece is the complete 180 by the ACLU on vaccine mandates that they were against just a few years ago. If the government would just try to convince the populace with honesty and the facts as science knows it, instead of coercing, or even threatening the unvaccinated, we could have 70-80% vaccinated by now. As far as the ACLU personally, I didn’t renew my membership about 2 years ago due to what I see as their new role as democrat party enablers.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

      • #444879
        Ohio Barbarian
        • Total Posts: 21,764

        The ACLU raked in over a billion dollars while Trump was President, and now they seem to be nothing more than Democrat apparatchiks. Democrat Good, Republican Bad.

        They’ve lost their way. No reason for the rest of us to follow them, though.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

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