The California wildfires, climate change and capitalism

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    • #358576
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,290

      The wildfires burning through the US West Coast, the largest on record in California and poised to become the largest in the history of the United States, have already killed 33 people and threaten to displace hundreds of thousands.

      Just one of these fires, the August Complex in California, has consumed more than 875,000 acres. Until yesterday afternoon, the entire city of Portland was on alert for a mass evacuation as local and state officials warned of a “mass fatality event” if the fires reached Oregon’s largest city.

      In a year that has already seen massive and uncontrolled wildfires in the Amazon and in Australia, the California fires make clear the immense dangers posed to human society by climate change, and the total inability of capitalism to address the problem.

      The disaster is compounded by the coronavirus pandemic, particularly in California, where the number of cases is still increasing by more than 3,000 a day, with a total of more than 760,000 confirmed cases so far. Residents are now forced either to stay in place and socially distance, risking death by wildfire, or evacuate to a shelter and risk infection.

      Full article here. It also has a nice synopsis of Obama’s real environmental policy.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #358582
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,638

      @ohiobarbarian

      Hi ob,

      Yep – and each and every year moving forward, Climate Change will only worsen.  And western style capitalism will continue to aggravate the problem since growth is a cultural and economic mandate.  Consequently, humanity will never take the necessary action to reduce emissions and population.  We have only ourselves to blame.

      TAT

      Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges.
      That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges.

      - George Carlin

      Sooner or later we all sit down to a banquet of consequences.

      - Robert Louis Stevenson

      Politics is the entertainment division of the Military Industrial Complex.

      - Frank Zappa

    • #358587
      Passionate Progressive
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,312
      Think about the West Coast crises and who’s in charge – it’s states with Democratic Party super majorities. California the most liberal of states with Democratic Party super majorities is unable to to achieve a universal health care policy as well as deal with the climate emergency…Asking or expecting those in charge to fix the problems is the same as expecting those causing the problems to correct their mistakes….This is essentially the core argument in this article.
      I don’t have the answers – but I do know that ignoring the problem is not a solution….The path to solving these problems can only be engaged by defining the problem and telling the truth.

      The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

    • #358598
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 890

      The first part is total hyperbole.  Portland is not in any evac state towns on the out skirts are in level 1 cities further out are in level 2. Clackamas county mostly rural or forest and has big junks that are in level 3 get out now.  Who ever used the term mass fatality event should be fired.  This article is good but I can’t stand the drama screaming at the beginning.  We are by far closer to the holiday fire and we have not had these scare tactics used and I am glad the mainstream media loves some drama and the people in our communities do not need more!  Portland is at 0 risk

      Earthartist

    • #358606
      So Far From Heaven
      Keymaster
      • Total Posts: 6,684

      That’s an economic system, not a system of government.

      tax the fucking rich and give the money to the forest service. End of discussion.

      Socialist countries would be very hard pressed to fight this. It’s called disaster for a reason. They have such fucked up forests that they can’t get one of these. Seriously. Almost zero of their forests are even close to ‘natural’. They’ve already gone thru phase one of deforestation and are ‘managing’ all replacement forests, NONE of which are even close to the size of ours.

      Let’s get real here. This is what is supposed to happen. It’s called ‘nature’. You don’t want your fucking house to burn down?

      Get out of the fucking forest where you don’t belong in the first fucking place. Quit having kids and over running the fucking planet. FORCE energy conservation or transform it’s generation and usage.

      Capitalism has zero to do with this. Greed and our very lifestyle are changing the world, not some lame ass economic system.

    • #358636
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,290

      @sffh Come on, man. Quite a few people made quite a bit of money by buying politicians so they could build, and we already know about the systematic lies about climate change for decades by people who stood to lose money if countermeasures were take in the 70s and 80s. As for “just” being an economic system, that’s empirically not true. Capitalism is far more that that.

      It’s also a political ideology of many variations, and a religion and a lifestyle.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

      • #358711
        So Far From Heaven
        Keymaster
        • Total Posts: 6,684

        You can call capitalism anything you want to, but it no change the fact it’s an economic model and that’s about it in the end.

        No, CAPITALISM didn’t over build.

        Now I gonna use the term you a lot in here, but it isn’t the you you. It’s a generic you as in the general public you.

        No, CAPITALISM didn’t rape pillage and plunder the environment, PEOPLE did and their GREED. What the fuck happens the instant Apple gives you a new iPhone even though the one you got is less than a year old? How many UNNECESSARY miles do you drive? Why do you keep the fucking lights on? You want I keep going? This isn’t about you personally @ohiobarbarian , it’s about everybody. Even those of us on JPR. Me. LoE. Deadpool. Name it. We, all of us, like to have shit. To do shit. To go someplace. Sometimes I even like to wear clothes.

        Put the blame where it should be placed, here. Profit makes the world work. Unregulated profiting is NOT capitalism.

        And DON’T try to tell me about how anyone ran over climate change studies at any time in our history. The science was there. It was all over the fucking place. It was first studied in like 1880 or something. I know that for a fucking fact, and I have the creds to back it up. You want the REAL truth about who covered up what? The fucking scientists did. The subject was un-provable at every level at that time. Pure fucking conjecture based on a stupid over-simplified thermodynamics problem. And it just sort of got trashed for the most part afterward for about 30 or so years. But it came roaring back when nobody could breathe the air and people started dying all over the place (this was the ecology of pollution part) and it has been there for everyone to read about for what, at least 140 years. So go read it. They gots things called libraries. Most of it since 1950 is Journal based so you either have to pay for each paper, pay a subscription or use a library and photocopy it. I’d suggest not going anywhere except a university for this.

        I can’t help it if nobody paid any fucking attention to it. I did. My friends did. Shit, we engineered solar heating that would knock your socks off but NOBODY gave a shit in a competition in 1972. Too expensive they said.

        Well, we said, put your fucking money where your mouth is and pay a little more for the sake of your children, we said. It was and still is available. But no, too much trouble. Too much investment because the fucking world moves every fucking five years and if you buy it you’ll never recoup your investment!

        What a crock! THAT was 50 years ago, my friend. And it hasn’t changed one iota since.

        It ain’t capitalism that’s to blame, it’s fucking greed. At EVERY level, even the lower classes. I want. I need. I have. I’ll get.

        Yup. You’ll get it all right. You’ll get it where it hurts. I said that 50 years ago. And I’m not going to change my tune. It isn’t capitalism. It’s unadulterated greed and desire to have the best and brightest and newest bullshit, and look, Johnny has one but I don’t and all the other shit.

        Now THAT’S capitalism. How do you fix it? Educate people to be a little less greedy and needy and stooooopid. If you no buy a product, it goes away into the dustbins of history. Your desire (again, not you personally but in general) for something costs everyone something, not just the price you pay for it. Everything. Even the shit that is used to generate wind power costs us something. And it always will.

        Ask yourself something. Just what is it that needs changing regarding inequality? It isn’t capitalism. That just creates value. It doesn’t take from anybody. Taking from everybody is a humanist problem. If you want to give everyone a decent life, you have to be able to afford it. I have to be able to afford it. Joe down the street has to be able to afford it. How you gonna do that with anything else?

        Tax excess wealth and get on with it.

        I don’t care what socio or economic system you have, the above is going to be true.

    • #358640
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,832

      It reduces intangibles like clean air, drinkable water, all the natural life in the ecosystem down to dollars and cents.   Capitalists externalize costs by dumping their wastes in the environment, where it doesn’t cost them anything.  But it costs those that have to drink the water, breathe the air, or rely on the natural ecosystem.

      It’s not just capitalism though, the former Soviet Union has a lot of areas that are environmental disasters, because their central planners made the same misjudgment of the value of the natural ecosystem.  They decided that growing cotton was more important than having an Aral Sea in central Asia.

      None of these economic systems has realized their place in the world:  without a functioning ecological system, you can’t organize a functioning economic system.

      • #358719
        So Far From Heaven
        Keymaster
        • Total Posts: 6,684

        Peoples lust for shit and willingness to pay anything to get it does that @gzeush

        People would be willing to stick their heads into a noose if the payoff is big enough or the object was desired enough.

        We could easily have transformed our huge energy and resource usage by making it a law.

        The only way out of this is regulation of resources and energy sources.

        Try getting that through your local city government much less your state government and you will never get it thru congress. Ever.

    • #358726
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 16,290

      @sffh Sounds like

      we need a revolution johnson - Fitted Cotton/Poly T-Shirt by Next Level

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

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