The CDC announcement

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    • #423306
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,270

      I don’t think anyone was quite prepared for that statement last night.  According to the media (yeah, I don’t know if they’re full of shit on this one or not either) even the white house was not expecting it.  In the days prior, however, Fauci was on record as saying that it was time to start removing the masks for people who were vaccinated.  The studies, such as they are, are optimistic as regards the efficacy of the vaccines.  However… there have already been numerous cases reported of fully vaccinated people testing positive – and of at least some becoming very ill and/or dying.  As far as I am aware, the vaccine does not prevent transmission of Covid19, at least no where near fully.  So, whether you are masked or not, vaccinated or not, you might still be a carrier.

      Am I suggesting that we need to mask up forever?  No.  I am suggesting, rather, that the numbers and studies so far are painting a far rosier picture than the reality of the situation.  If what I read earlier this morning is accurate, around 36% of Americans have been vaccinated so far.  If we assume that, of that total, even a fourth stop masking, social distancing, or taking precautions in general… then that’s still millions of people who, vaccinated or not, may be carriers.  It is worth noting here that the number of cases reported yesterday in the U.S. are 39,825 confirmed new cases, 762 deaths – and 8611 remaining in serious/critical condition.

      Various media (CNN in particular) are eager to give credit to the Biden administration, claiming that this is a great victory – and yet (as far as I know) neither the white house nor congress in general were briefed on this situation before the announcement was made.  Various state governors who have pragmatically and, frankly, bravely implemented mask mandates… are now being undermined by the very organization which is supposed to protect from, prevent, vaccinate against and cure diseases.  Also being undermined by this sudden announcement are employers and various others who in their own places of business have implemented a full masking policy.

      Did you see the republicans doing their little victory dances on TV last night?  I caught some of it when browsing CNN earlier… and, great grieving goats, that made me ill.  Please, republican and democrat members of congress, we know your smiles are fake, we know your cheers are not for us – we know the kind of people you really are.  They can declare victory because in addition to all of them having access to vaccines, they also each have fully covered healthcare, paid for by the American tax payer.  The poorest of them still makes numerous times what any minimum wage worker earns and has benefits far above and beyond what most working middle class workers have.  Why?  What have any of them done to deserve it?

      Who appoints people like the director of the CDC?  The President.  Can we trust in the integrity of an institution led by a political appointee?  Should we?  I don’t – I may have more trust and respect for scientists and researchers in the field – but generally, not for “management” types.

      About 4,000 people died of covid19 in India yesterday.  Evidence is continuing to emerge that, whatever the case may have been with the origins of this virus, there were various people actually conducting what they call “gain of function research” – this is research, study and experimentation that was actually intended to transfer coronavirus from bats to humans.  To, you know, see if it could be done – and then if we could do that, we could surely cure or vaccinate against it…. or not.  There is a long history of illnesses escaping from various labs conducting various research on samples – and now creating new ones.  Even some that are nearly impossible (if not impossible in fact) to trace.

      I used to trust Dr. Fauci to an extent.  I used to think he was the smartest man in the room – but when that room is full of exceptionally stupid, greedy, entitled morons, I suppose that’s not so hard.  I used to think that statements released by the CDC could be trusted, at least more than the opinion of the average layperson.  However, when they are led by political appointees and people with financial conflicts of interest and so on… well…

      I really do not like where this is going.  I am deeply suspicious that this announcement was made just yesterday, with stories emerging of fully vaccinated people getting sick with the virus.  I am deeply suspicious of the motives of corporations such as Moderna and Pfizer.  I didn’t used to be this suspicious of the CDC.  I did not used to be this suspicious in general.  Yet everything that I have read lately gives me cause to doubt the noble intentions of our various institutions – particularly those who lead them.

      I truly hope that I am wrong, that I am being too pessimistic, too suspicious, too cautious, paranoid even.  If I am not – if my suspicions are proven accurate, then we will, in the weeks ahead, see quite the surge in case numbers.  Again.  Once again… victory has been declared and some are urging us to throw caution to the wind… well before it is wise or pragmatic to do so.

      The majority of U.S. citizens are not yet vaccinated.  We have not had enough time or study as regards the vaccines, they were rushed and their approval was rushed.

      I am gravely concerned that this will send us back on a downward spiral.  I have to question the motives of the CDC Director in this – was it a spur of the moment type of thing?  Was it in collaboration with others?  Why so suddenly, why yesterday?  Why was there no lead up to this, no time given to Governors and others to prepare for the consequences?  Indeed… why was the announcement made at all?

      Overall, ultimately… the motive is probably profit.

    • #423312
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,551

      ..@davidthegnome.

      My husband and I have decided that we will still wear masks and observe all current protocols for the next two months or so.Ohio is slated to lift mask restrictions on June 2,and we’ll continue all the procedures for awhile.

      It may be like when the country was taken out of lockdown last year….too soon,and motivated by the economy rather than public health.

    • #423321
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 8,141

      I think we are going to be slammed with another variant and we’ll be in worse shape than before. I’ll continue my mask and distancing protocol.

      The vaccine is good and it will save lives. But, it doesn’t prevent you getting the virus. It simply lessens the symptoms if you do get it. And if you do get it, you can still pass it on. Honestly, masking is the least of the inconveniences.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #423323
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,270

      @nvwino

      It just doesn’t make any sense.  Why yesterday?  Why at all?

      Of course I’m not an expert – and I’m a little bit surprised they haven’t censored me on Facebook yet… but this whole thing seems illogical, reckless, dangerous.  If/when a new variant hits…

      Yeah.  I am not feeling comforted by any of this.

      Some times I wonder if we should have done as China did.  Crack down damn hard at the beginning.  If we compare their results with those of our “democratic” Nation, well…

       

       

    • #423326
      Pam2
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,043

      Maybe it’s an attempt to get the vaccine rates up? Get the shot, take off the mask, go to Disneyland!! We have to get “back to normal”! So what if some people are still getting infected! 🙄

       

    • #423327
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,536

      Perhaps this is meant to somehow try and force those who are wary about the “vaccine” to go ahead and get it, just to feel like part of the herd.  If Fauci can say masks are not necessary because there was a shortage, then say oh yes masks are necessary when there were plenty, I have no reason to believe  any damn thing he says.

      After all, this is not a democracy, America is just a business.  All decisions from our government, IMO, are based on profits.

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

      Everything I post is just my opinion, and, honestly, I would love to be wrong.

    • #423331
      srobert
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 58

      There was an estimate that herd immunity might kick in when about 70% of the population was vaccinated. We’re only about half way there.  I would think that number, and the number of active cases, would be the determining factors on whether it was safe to unmask and disregard social distancing. Some people only wear the masks because it’s expected of them. I can’t distinguish the vaccinated from the unvaccinated. If we don’t make wearing masks a social norm, then people won’t wear them regardless of their vaccination status. My prediction is that premature disregard of precautions will result in another spike or two in cases and deaths in the U.S. before the pandemic is over. I’m not really qualified medically but my hunch is, this is premature. I hope I’m wrong about that.

    • #423338
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,330

      Summer is coming and outdoor events and business need MONEY. Pack the restaurants! Fill up the sports stadiums! Go join the crowd at the local parade! Go to Disneyland!

      Nobody cares for us unless we have enough MONEY to pay for the things we are being sold. This country revolves around and worships MONEY!

      Our owners won’t be happy till they have it all and the rest of us, if we survive, work for Room & Board.

      That is the real reason why for the CDC announcement.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
      The older we get, the less "Life in Prison" is a deterrent.
      Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #423339
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 12,932

      I vote for “Doesn’t Make Sense” too.

      A lot of contradictions & counter-evidence.

      I’ll keep on doing what I’ve been doing and wait & see.

      Probably into winter, much as I wish it were otherwise.

      I’d think by winter we’d know by evidence of our own communities if things were really getting better or not.

    • #423377
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 21,869

      For what it’s worth, the CDC is claiming the vaccines protect against the new variants, too. It’s probably true. Vaccines do protect against variants of viruses. That is long-established scientific fact.

      As for the timing, I believe about half of all Americans are vaccinated now–someone correct me if I’m mistaken. The CDC was saying that 70%, or was it 90%?,  had to be vaccinated before mask restrictions should be lifted not that long ago, so go figure. The timing probably is politics and corruption.

      I’ll have my second vaccination in a couple of weeks, and I’ve already had the actual disease and been exposed I don’t know how many hundreds of times since and not gotten sick. I know enough basic virology to know I can’t be a carrier. So my mask goes off in June. I’m not going to worry about it anymore.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #423390
      chknltl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,423

      You have written many inspired O.P.s in the past. For me personally, this one hits home like none other.

      Let me start out by informing all who read this that I have so far chosen not to get vaccinated.

      I may or may not change my mind later…I get it that I run the risk of catching the virus anyway and at 66, without being vaccinated, things might not turn out so well.

      At a restaurant breakfast today, a chum informed me that I would not be allowed to attend the two concerts I wish to go to later this year without somehow proving that I had gotten vaccinated.

      Um…I called bull pucky on that one because I am unaware of some kind of “proof-card” that is being distributed for those who have been vaccinated.

      He countered with he had heard that major sporting events were going to mandate proof of vaccinations before one was allowed in as well.

      I knew nothing of this but perhaps I’ve been living under a rock so I let the matter of “proof cards” drop.

      I changed tactics to what the vaccines were designed to do.

      My breakfast chum at least understood that the vaccines only lessened the severity of the virus symptoms but he never was able to put 2+2 together to conclude that having lessened symptoms meant that one could still catch and spread the virus.

      In other words, my choice to attend those concerts only puts myself at risk for the more severe symptoms.

      I can still spread the virus or catch it at a concert just as easily as anyone else, vaccinated or not.

      For the record: I get the notion that masks were intended to cut down on Covid transmission by limiting airborne droplets FROM those who have caught the virus.

      The masks only add a tiny defense for one receiving those infected droplets.

      Handwashing is still another important defense we can take, as is social distancing, touching elbows instead of handshakes;
      using the antiseptic wipes provided us for carts and handbaskets at grocery stores; shop owners sanitizing their tables and etc.

      I get all that, I am OK with it-am strongly down with those tactics actually.

      I confess to divergence when it comes to shutting down our economy like we did but that is an off topic matter.

      I do not think of myself as any more psychic than the next person but with this new maskless rule, I predict there will be a great many ‘holier than thou’ types who will be quick to inform me that “while they are now ‘immune’ from Covid, I am not and I am the one selfishly risking spreading the virus!”

      Mark my non-psychic words: there will be far too many folks who have been vaccinated running around maskless who sincerely think that they can not catch nor spread the virus!

      That attitude in and of itself can prove to be a disaster or even a death sentence for those like myself and a great many of our citizenry who have not been vaccinated!

      In truth, I am quite alarmed at this!

      I am reminded of an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where one by one the members of the crew succumbed to wearing these goggles that made them see pretty lights and rendered them unable to perform their duties.

      The best solution? Put the goggles on and everything will be fine! No-don’t make your own decisions, just put the goggles on and join everyone else.

      IIRC, all but one of the crew succumbed to the goggles before someone was able to resolve the problem and save the ship.

      Herd immunity? More like herd mentality if you ask me.

      I guess that is all I’ve to say on this mask removing matter.

      Thank you again for an excellent OP David.

    • #423401
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,270

      @ohiobarbarian

      It’s 36%

      https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

      The vaccine is working well so far against the variants we currently know of.  In general, they seem to be preventing most severe cases that result in hospitalization and/or death.

      I say “the vaccine” but there are several, of course.  I suspect that they are not all created equally (efficacy numbers vary beteeen the J & J and moderna and pfizer).  The astrazenaca vaccine has a lot of issues, control and contamination.

      • #423418
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 21,869

        At least I understood the basic virological approach to the vaccine. Those you mentioned? Not so much. They sounded weird to me, so I went with something I found at least theoretically familiar.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #423453
      snot
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,300

      except with the people I’m closest to and who I know are also continuing to take precautions.

      Destruction is easy; creation is hard, but more interesting.

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