retired liberal (2908 posts)October 25, 2018 at 8:56 am
The long term effects of voting for the lesser evil.
The bottom line is where we are now. It won’t stop until there is a big enough gap between the black and the red parts. Think McConnell as a centrist liberal.B Calm, JonLP24, gordyfl and 42 othersJEB, ronRonnie, Aerows, Widestance, Satan, PDiddie, mikedub285, chknltl, ravensong, MrMickeysMom, Populist Prole, Iwalani88, joentokyo, Johnny Rash, Fuddnik, xynthee, Enthusiast, 3FingerBrown, Cleita, nevereVereven, Coldmountaintrail, OCMI, FourScore, Koko, Utopian Leftist, Gryneos, MistaP, HubHeaver, closeupready, HomerRamone, iggy, dreamnightwind, Go Vols, tk2kewl, Ohio Barbarian, djean111, ThinkingANew, ThouArtThat, Entrepreneur, Two way street, jwirr, mmonk like thisNo matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up. Lily Tomlin ::: Society would be much better off if a simple law was passed... That upon a Company/Organization acting unlawfully, the Directors/Executives/Senior Management (and anyone directly involved) shall be held personally liable and upon successful prosecution will face jail time.
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Two way street (4379 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 9:43 am
1. What would the cartoon look like if there were blue makers under the black line
to indicate the percentage of Americans voting over election years? It is something to think about.
dreamnightwind (1787 posts) (Reply to Two way street - post #1) October 25, 2018 at 10:24 am
7. Probably more an issue of what choices are on the ballot
When the range of ballot choices is identarian corporatists to rw corporatists, seems to me the slide happens regardless of how many people vote.
Two way street (4379 posts) (Reply to dreamnightwind - post #7) October 25, 2018 at 5:02 pm
11. Probably the number of voters has declined as it moves to the Right. Then we ar
are getting candidates that are more and more against what the People want, like 2 billionaire or millionaire Corporate Whores/Oligarchs.
mossyfrog (854 posts) (Reply to dreamnightwind - post #7) November 11, 2018 at 6:23 am
living in Utah, As much as I’m a Green. I had no choice but vote D (there was no Green option anywhere here in Utah :( ). So sick of Repugs (Mormons) iron grip here. Figured the Dem’s had to be better here for Utah but I just felt hopeless and dirty after filling in the circle for D’s. Shout out, Woot Woot on Med. M finally passing here !!!!Join us and be truly Revolutionary!
dreamnightwind (1787 posts) (Reply to mossyfrog - post #27) November 11, 2018 at 8:26 am
28. Woot woot!
Can’t wait to hike southern Utah again, used to love to camp and hike out there, incredibly beautiful.
mossyfrog (854 posts) (Reply to dreamnightwind - post #28) November 11, 2018 at 3:33 pm
ONLY reason I decided to move here 2 years ago. But my god the Govt. here is bad. I wouldn’t even mind if they were a little bit old fashion Republican, but I doubt they would understand what that meant. They are stupid, half-ass backward, Mormon cultist freaks. The Mormon leaders (who are the real power here) couldn’t even decide once and for all about backing Medical Pot. Even though it states quiet clearly in their warped bible that all things from the earth can be used by gods people and goes on to list WEED and any and all HERBS. Yes I am a survivor of this cult hence my hatred. Lucky I live in SLC which is like an Oasis. Which is odd since the Church is located here. Sorry got off track LOL. Yes the mountains and state parks (for however long they may last) and hiking is spectacular here.Join us and be truly Revolutionary!
dreamnightwind (1787 posts) (Reply to mossyfrog - post #29) November 11, 2018 at 8:13 pm
30. Yes the culture was a shock to me
I could handle it for 2 week visits, also it isn’t as bad in areas where lots of outdoors tourists go, like Moab. But I hear you on the rest of it, hard to believe some of the worldviews that persist in this day and age despite the world changing around them.
All the more impressive that MMJ was legalized, though watch out for federal enforcement in the national parks.
mossyfrog (854 posts) (Reply to dreamnightwind - post #30) November 12, 2018 at 2:38 pm
for the reminder on the federal parks. Dog I wish the Feds would get a brain. Stay out of people’s live’s unless there is danger to another being. Many forget that just because the state passes MMJ it does not mean PARTY TIME anywhere and everywhere! This is a 1st step for Utah though. I’m just hoping they don’t drag their collective feet about this new law and/or tax into oblivion. But realistically I know there are some in Utah with just that agenda. They could care less that the majority voted for this or that MJ has proven to help people in need. Their dogma dictates otherwise. It would be fantastic if the Fed. would do away with the idiotic MJ as an illegal drug so that I could get MJ through my Medicare.Join us and be truly Revolutionary!
Tierra y Libertad (3326 posts) (Reply to Two way street - post #1) October 25, 2018 at 12:40 pm
10. Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; i
Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one. Thomas Paine
As usual, we end up with a choice between evils. And then with tolerable and intolerable.
The trouble, as always, is who wields the power of government.
I find most Democratic politicians intolerable. I find all Republicans intolerable and Trump his fascist followers unspeakable.
But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants is the liberty of appearing. Thomas Paine
Two way street (4379 posts) (Reply to Tierra y Libertad - post #10) October 25, 2018 at 5:07 pm
12. Yes, the right end has become ultra extremist murders-Bolton in my opinion,
is driving the lesser car over the edge with nuclear first strike. Putin has already made it clear what will happen-no retaliatory strike until the world can see who started this, in hoping that a union of countries will strike back in a volley. Parts of America may be incinerated/vaporized.
Ohio Barbarian (13443 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 10:02 am
2. Superb. Great visual. Recommended for the Daily Radical.No man ought to stay poor so another man can get rich. --Newton Knight
Hobbit709 (4954 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 10:09 am
3. My question is always "At what level of evil does it become acceptable?"I won't shut up and I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing
Fire with Fire (1735 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 10:12 am
4. I disagree with the subtext of this chart
The long term effects of voting for the lesser evil are identical to the long term effects of voting for non-evil candidates — local, state and Federal governments all move further and further to the right no matter how you vote. It is going to take a lot more than voting to change the steady march toward neo-feudalism.
But the text of the chart is spot on. Keeping the Dems alive as a supposedly less right wing alternative does nothing at all.
HassleCat (3593 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 10:15 am
iggy (3461 posts) (Reply to HassleCat - post #5) October 25, 2018 at 10:38 am
8. The primaries is where the change really happens
If you don’t support the challenge to the status quo, you end up voting for the lesser evil.“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.” Joseph Goebbels
retired liberal (2908 posts) (Reply to iggy - post #8) October 25, 2018 at 12:16 pm
9. I agree with you here.
The problem is the respective political parties control the primaries and who wins. The Republicans though voter suppression and gerrymandering and the Democrats through voter suppression and controlling who can run as a democrat in the primaries. Plus pre-choosing the winner in the primaries.
Non-republican or non-democrat candidates are ganged up on by both parties in political ads, backed by big money, as some kind of radical, incompetent miss-fits unworthy of representing anybody. These independent candidates seldom have much money behind them to counter the lies and slanders used against them by both big political parties.No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up. Lily Tomlin ::: Society would be much better off if a simple law was passed... That upon a Company/Organization acting unlawfully, the Directors/Executives/Senior Management (and anyone directly involved) shall be held personally liable and upon successful prosecution will face jail time.
dreamnightwind (1787 posts) (Reply to retired liberal - post #9) October 25, 2018 at 8:10 pm
13. agree with all of that, excellent post
Also agree that the primaries are our best electoral chance to effect change. even though rigged as you say.
A third party capable of at least getting enough support to ruin an unacceptable corporacrat would be a good tool to hold over their heads, might get us more of a fair shot in the primary too if the party thinks it could lose a three-way general election.
Go Vols (251 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 10:17 am
leveymg (5214 posts) (Reply to original post) October 25, 2018 at 8:13 pm
MrMickeysMom (2524 posts) (Reply to original post) October 26, 2018 at 9:18 pm
15. Yes…. I keep saying…
There IS no left!
retired liberal (2908 posts) (Reply to MrMickeysMom - post #15) October 26, 2018 at 9:20 pm
16. So, there is no more left left, right?
D504 (323 posts) (Reply to MrMickeysMom - post #15) November 13, 2018 at 8:47 am
33. There is no funding for the Left.
As it is, the top .01% have more money than the rest of us combined.
They own the airwaves, the food and most of the politicians.
They own, most likely, your job and future.
They are re-dedicating efforts now to glamorize the military
and believe at some level they can control a revolution.
They could be right at this point."If you push something hard enough, it will fall over." - Fud's First law
eridani (6814 posts) (Reply to original post) October 27, 2018 at 12:59 am
17. Should be retitled
“The long term effects of progressive refusal to engage in electoral politics.” That means recruiting and supporting more progressive candidates.You've heard of the Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West, right? I'm the Morally Ambiguous Witch of the Northwest.
retired liberal (2908 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #17) October 27, 2018 at 6:07 am
18. That too.
Part of the problem is the lying and corruption of the candidates. They run as liberals, or progressives, then start taking the lobbyist bribe money.
SandersDem (817 posts) (Reply to original post) October 29, 2018 at 3:13 pm
21. I am really struggling with this.
Here in Arizona, I am having an enormous issue with the Democratic Senate candidate. When I ran for office here, Sinema did as well. She won her seat in the AZ House having run as the most progressive candidate in this State. I had huge admiration for her as she opposed the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, was a vocal advocate for a ton of progressive issues and would have fit right in here at JPR. However, when she decided to run for Congress, everything changed. The Party convinced her that a move center was necessary to win, and perhaps it was, but in doing so she compromised herself and the trust that progressives had in her. It is blatant politically motivated opportunism and dishonesty, although I can allow for someone “evolving” I suppose.
After this last election, I left the Democratic Party. In my view that allows me to refuse to get in line, something I had always done even when it truly turned my stomach. Now the Democratic Party is unrecognizable to me: see the OP graph because there was never a truer illustration of what has happened.
However. I have a choice of voting for a US Senator who votes with Trump 63% of the time, or one that votes with him 97% of the time. The only thing Sinema has going for her, is her claim that she would protect Social Security and Medicare. My problem is, once elected, she will want to get reelected and she will choose some issue to “compromise” on to demonstrate that she can work across the aisle.
I may let her live or die on her political calculus of abandoning the left and vote Green or Blank or write in. If she is defeated it will be her and the Party’s fault, not mine. On the other hand this is a very close race with the Senate in the balance. If McSally wins, then I can believe that SS and Medicare will die.
Do I compromise one last time or just say no. I am struggling.
retired liberal (2908 posts) (Reply to SandersDem - post #21) October 29, 2018 at 4:20 pm
22. Unless overwhelming for a candidate, I don't see our votes counting full weight.
Between the purposely, easily hacked Republican owned voting machines, gerrymandering, Her owning of the DNC and running the Democratic primary/party to suit Her, the slanderous lies that are our political ads, good, reasonably honest people, don’t have a chance.
Our government is corrupt. Our election process is corrupt. A few very wealthy men control how this country is run.
Our TV keeps us distracted, with shows like the mindless drivel of Dancing With the Stars, to feel good propaganda like SWAT and Seal Team, that keep the people placated, just as the Romans used to do in the arena, as their empire crumbled around them.
RealityCheck (1987 posts) (Reply to original post) October 31, 2018 at 1:42 pm
23. voting for the lesser evil
How can voters separate the difference between lesser evil and Bigger Money?
Widestance (99 posts) (Reply to original post) November 2, 2018 at 5:49 pm
24. I’ve always assumed this was what having an abortion was like for many ppl
It’s not always an easy choice. Sometimes it is, but sometimes we have to make the choice for ourselves. We certainly can’t spend much time judging others for weighing what’s the best choice for them.
My family voted yesterday (as a family, because that’s how we roll). That much, I believe, is a civic duty, the simplest obligation of living in an ostensibly free, democratic society.
That doesn’t mean there were only two options. For governor, for instance, I could have chosen the Democrat. He’s an asshole. Has been for decades, long before he entered politics. I REALLY didn’t enjoy voting for him, and still feel dirty at having voted for a guy with an A rating from the NRA. However, his Republican opponent? He would be actively dangerous to the most vulnerable in society. Minorities, children, immigrants, the poor, ad infinitum. So I voted for the Democrat.
There was a judicial race where I didn’t like either of the candidates. I guess I’m lucky to live in Nevada, where in most cases “none of the above” is an option (although we don’t have write-ins, which I would probably enjoy too much).
I left the spot for DA blank. No vote. There’s only one person running in this county, and although it says “Democrat,” he’s not just a Republican in Dem clothing, he’s exceptionally conservative even for a DA. Incumbency wins again, but at least I didn’t vote for it.
I’m a Socialist. Ballot Question Three essentially pits two billionaires against one another (Sheldon Adelson and Warren Buffet). Both possible votes — yes or no — are against the economic interests of the people. I left it blank. Will “no vote” win? Of course not. However, I can cast a protest vote in one place and pragmatic votes in others.
”Not voting” is not an option, but one can vote and still be true to oneself, even if it’s not a simple choice.
Coldmountaintrail (9789 posts) (Reply to Widestance - post #24) November 12, 2018 at 3:02 pm
32. what was issue 3 that put buffett & adelson $$$ against each other?
btw, I agree with your points & practice similar.
Aerows (4988 posts) (Reply to original post) November 2, 2018 at 6:02 pm
There are whackos that believe Mitch McConnell IS a centrist liberal!Root: If we're just information, just noise in the system, we might as well be a symphony.
mossyfrog (854 posts) (Reply to original post) November 11, 2018 at 6:18 am
Repig’s are Devils from hell. The Dem’s are Devils from hell but willing to turn down the heat a couple notches from 1000 degrees. Its a slow roast over an instant burn.Join us and be truly Revolutionary!