There are many excellent reasons for withdrawing American troops from Syria. None of them are Trump's.

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    • #3445
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,103

      Just off the top of my head, I can list a bunch of excellent reasons to withdraw all American forces from Syria, including aircraft, which are not affected by Trump’s decision, so any celebration should be tamped down on that score alone for my first reason. Here’s a list. Feel free to add more.

      • Reducing the chances of a direct military confrontation with Russian forces, especially since Russia is a nuclear power.
      • Saving the lives of American troops.
      • Reducing the chance of Israel successfully provoking a confrontation between American or allied forces and Russian ones, which they already tried to do at least once.
      • Giving the Syrians themselves the chance to find their own way.
      • Money
      • We are not wanted there by the vast majority of the people who live there. Sorry, Kurds, you’re not worth it.
      • Eliminating the chance of a military clash with a NATO ally, Turkey
      • American withdrawal makes it more likely that a secular order will be restored to Syria. IOW, a greater chance for religious minorities to live without fear of persecution because of their religion or lack thereof.
      • Neither the American Republic nor Empire has any vital security or economic interests in Syria.
      • American intervention has made things worse in every single Middle Eastern country we have intervened in. Give it up already!
      • It pisses off Netanyahu
      • It pisses off the neocons(see Bolton, Graham)
      • It pisses off the neoliberals(see Hillary and other Vichy Democrats and their cheerleaders)
      • It pisses off the Merchants of Death
      • The last four give me a very warm, fuzzy feeling

      So why did Trump do it? I don’t know, but he ultimately does everything for only one reason: He thinks it benefits him. Maybe he has some financial interests in whatever Merchant of Death who is making the $3 billion anti-aircraft defense system the Turks just happened to decide to buy from America rather than Russia. Maybe some foreign oligarch bribed him.

      And he definitely thinks withdrawal will raise the ratings of the reality TV show of which he is the star in his own demented mind.

      Now, because he really is an imbecile, we cannot trust Trump to stick to his guns and actually follow through. He could be distracted by some other bright, shiny object and forget about it. Jared and Ivanka could talk him out of it because Israel doesn’t want this. Who knows with this guy?

      If he does get our troops out of Syria, and hopefully Afghanistan as well, I will give him appropriate credit, but none of us should ever conclude that he stands for peace or has the American people’s best interests at heart. I hope he does follow through, in which case we have even more reason to make sure his opponent in 2020, assuming he’s still in office then, is definitely more of a peace candidate than he.

      Thanks for reading, have a nice night, and may the hamsters allow you to reply with your thoughts.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #3461
      ozoneman
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 316

      But we don’t really know which reasons Trump had. I suspect some subset of the ones you listed.

      I think Turkey weighed heavily in the decision, for their intended operation against the Kurds with embedded American military. That would go over well, one NATO country attacking another. That is my number one reason.

      The military deal is important, and I’m sure the Russian S-400 deal did not go over well.

      And there is his campaign promise to get us out of Syria. At some level, he has Libertarian leanings, he’s not a war hawk like Hillary or Obama or Bush.

      Who knows the reasons, but I’m liking it! I hope it sticks.

       

      • #3477
        Enthusiast
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,577

        It will be a very popular decision with the American people too. Remember when Obama wanted “boots on the ground” how much the people raised hell against it.

        I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

        Me

      • #3777
        Woman Hear Me Roar!!
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 62

        You say none of the reasons you listed were reasons he exited …..so wondering how you know those were not his reasons.

        Lots of good reason to not like Trump – but you have to give him this one.  He got us out of at least one war….hoping he will get us out of more wars.  16+ years of war is enough don’t you think?

        Under both dems and reps we have had endless war, conflict and a huge waste of human life, mental health and 1000s wandering lost and confused.

        Just saying it is okay to give even the devil credit when he does a good thing.

        Finally women are being heard...finally women are roaring.....

        • #3783
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 17,103

          I’ve been through four of them. Any parent has either lived with or dealt with kids that age who act, and think, just like Trump. Selfish little bullying pricks, many of them. They just usually grow out of it.

          Trump never did. If you have never raised children yourself, you can’t know what I’m talking about, and my analogy will fail. Unfortunately, it’s the most accurate one I’ve got.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #3463
      game meat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,295

      I imagine that’s what drives his seemingly random foreign policy decisions. Here and there he does or says something that sort of knee caps the neocon agenda, which is all well and good, but we can be sure it’s never for the right reasons. Of course, he just kind of says whatever pops into his head at any given time, so he may order missile strikes via tweet tonight and that would surprise absolutely no one.

    • #3478
      Land of Enchantment
      Keymaster
      • Total Posts: 741

      I recall him saying the opposite not that long ago…and as for Afghanistan? He is pulling out 7,000 troops? Don’t know the *rationale* for that move either, but then we are dealing with an insane demagogue.

      “Hope is the feathered thing that perches in your heart.” ~ Emily Dickinson

    • #3491
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,129

      And the HUUUUGE increase in military spending is not the action of someone who “stands for peace”.

      Bernie would not be bombing Yemen, dismantling the Iran nuclear agreement or supporting a big increase in defense spending.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

    • #3493
      Light In The Darkness
      Blocked
      • Total Posts: 28

      We have been told for years that the US military is going after terrorists that attacked the Twin Towers and Pentagon on 9/11/2001. Yet here we are heading into 2019 and it has become quite obvious that our government has been financing al-Qaeda terrorists who terrorized Syria and overthrew Libya. Zbigniew Brzezinski and other Deep Staters did the same in Afghanistan in the 1980’s and there is strong evidence that the US military have also been supporting ISIS in parts of Syria for the past few year

    • #3495
      Light In The Darkness
      Blocked
      • Total Posts: 28

      One must seriously consider that what the terrorist support means is that the war on terror was never really about going after terrorists, it was actually about overthrowing countries, taking resources and controlling the general public through fear and terror. Blaming Russia for everything today is a most convenient distraction in order to throw the public off the path to truth and keep the military industrial complex cash cow flowing.

    • #3524
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,497

      Who knows!  But one thing for sure……

      It wasn’t for the right reasons and he could flip-flop on this “decision” in a New York minute!

       

      • #3893
        Bellicose Lugosi
        Member
        • Total Posts: 214

        Regardless of the motivation for removing the troops I feel it’s a good move.  Bring every one of them home from around the globe and cut the military budget in half (at least).

        *we could keep a few vessels out there but they will always be out there and off the books regardless of what anyone says.

        It's alright Ma, it's life and life only.

    • #3526
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 953

      He has to stick to it against the Deep State and neocons;

      Putin needs to control Erdogan to protect the Kurds, so that

      they can come to an agreement with Assad in a short time.

       

      I think that he really is against bloodletting by the US, but,

      very much like Bubba,

      not against fighting a war via sanctions.

      To him a weapon deal is “just business”. So no, there is no moral

      compass in play, just avoidance of a bloody display of  bombs and

      bodies.

      In this case I hope that Putin has the ability to avoid more unintended

      disasters. However, it is not clear that Trump can stop the CIA from

      funding Al Qaeda, Al Nusra or other “jihadists” from further fighting.

      • #3600
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 17,103

        @sadoldgirl , as the reply didn’t work right. Not that I care that Russia uses a Syrian port as a naval base on the Mediterranean. If the Russian and Syrian governments are fine with that, it’s really not an American concern. Syria has been caught between Russia and the West since the beginnings of the Cold War, usually leaning to the Russian side due to American support for Israel.

        The main real strategic American interest in the eastern Med is keeping the Suez Canal open, and nobody, certainly not Russia or China for that matter, has an interest in seeing it shut down.

        Of course, I don’t count weapons sales and the CIA or mercs or anyone else making a bundle as vital American interests, unlike many of the people so outraged at the prospects of withdrawal.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #3602
      jerry611
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,019

      At a primary debate he said the Iraq war was a mistake. And he got heat from every other Republican on that stage. Trump is not a neocon. I never saw him as pro-war. In fact, Hillary was more pro-war than he was. Hillary wanted more direct involvement in Syria and enforce a no-fly zone which would have lead to a game of chicken with the Russians.

      Pulling out of Syria is not inconsistent to what he has said in the past.

    • #3632
      3fingerbrown
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,833

      to be in Syria. Then, now, ever.

      All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

      • #3752
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 17,103

        Funny how that consistency often coincides with Russian interests. Just the day before Trump lifted the sanctions against an aluminum firm because the sanctioned oligarch, Oleg something-or-other that I can’t remember but @bobthedrummer has written about at length, the same guy who paid Manafort, because he had reduced his controlling interests to a mere 40%.

        I don’t know if these things had anything to do with Trump’s decision or not, and of course I agree with withdrawal, but there is clearly a pattern.

        Edit: Crap, this reply was intended for the @jerry611

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

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