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Home Main Forums General Discussion They thought they were untouchable

  • PuffGranny (455 posts)
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    They thought they were untouchable

    The high profile men who have recently been fired for sexual harassment and/or abuse have operated from a position of power. They could make or break a career, and they used that power to prey upon their victims. At least in some of the cases they were so confident in their positions of power that they did little to hide their disgusting behavior, but did wield that power to crush anyone who might speak out against them.

    This feeling of invulnerability (ironic because they preyed upon the vulnerable)  also made these men feel that they could admit to their deeds and not feel any consequence for it. No one has suggested that there not be any due process in the firing of these men from their jobs, these men freely admitted to these offenses. They thought they were untouchable. They thought themselves too powerful to fall.

    This is not how this will play out in most places of work. Most women will have to go through the process and fight for justice. Please stop with the claims of witch-hunt. Women have dealt with sexual harassment in the work place for as long as we have been working. It is time that it stops. Now.

    TY closeupready for the video!

    Pastiche, avaistheone1, davidthegnome and 44 othersshanti, davidgmills, rampart, Silver Witch, Agony, kath, truebluegreen, cui bono, NJOCK, ozoneman, Jefferson23, Charles, Needlehawk, Calico, rudycantfail, WillyT, ThomPaine, closeupready, TIME TO PANIC, HeartoftheMidwest, Tuesday, Enthusiast, Betty Karlson, frylock, Segami, bobthedrummer, Eleanors38, Marym625, mmonk, disillusioned73, area woman, Babel 17, graycat, PennLawyer, BillZBubb, jwirr, Iwillnevergiveup, Land of Enchantment, xynthee, h-32, Iwalani88, iggy, ZimInSeattle, roguevalley like this
    #stillbernie

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    • roguevalley (2223 posts)
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      1. Plus infinity

      Be love. Be light. Fear is the only darkness. Love is the only light.
    • BillZBubb (2851 posts)
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      2. Agreed.

      It’s time for these abusers to pay the piper.

      DemExit! Don't give the Democrats a dime. Don't identify as a Democrat. Drop Democratic identification below 20%. Only then will they support true progressive policy. Until then, corporate money rules.
      • PuffGranny (455 posts)
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        3. But even more importantly, imo

        …is that the culture of acceptance of this behavior will change. I (and I am guessing, most women) don’t want revenge, I want it to change. I want my grand-daughters to be able to work without being harassed, I want them to have equality.

        #stillbernie
        • Blue Meany (420 posts)
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          63. Agreed – the culture of acceptance is the main thing that has to change, because

          there are lots of passive or active enablers.  Victims coming forward is only the first step.  The second has to be the people on the sidelines who knew something, even if they didn’t know the details.

    • GZeusH (2300 posts)
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      4. Except Trump

      His behavior has been as bad or worse than the current spate of firings, was uncovered earlier, but he’s been promoted to Commander-in-Chief.

      Oh, I’m not saying it’s a witch-hunt.  But it is interesting to see who is being called to account for their bad behavior and who is being allowed to slide by.  One prominent conservative (Roy Moore) is close to sinking, but the tally has sunk a larger number of otherwise progressive people.  In the cause of stopping sexual harassment in the workplace, some people are being played like violins.

      Policy:  The mistaken notion that bossy people have that they can influence other people's behavior through majority rule.
      • PuffGranny (455 posts)
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        7. I agree that many conservatives will let it go to protect "their man"

        Trump and Moore will “get away with it” because they have followers hate the left more than they hate pedophiles or other sexual abusers. But don’t think that this movement isn’t moving, however slowly, into the lives of conservative women. Yes, equality of any flavor is more difficult in conservative areas, but it is worth fighting for.

        #stillbernie
      • area woman (5249 posts)
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        8. No, you called it a "Purge" and likened it to the Salem witch hunt.

        https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/matt-lauer-fired-from-nbc-news/#post-846059

        I'm so cute I shit kittens.
        • GZeusH (2300 posts)
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          10. History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

          And it sounds to me like mere accusation has once again taken center stage.  All for good reason, of course.  These accused are disgusting individuals accused of disgusting acts.  What more need  be said?

          Do they weigh the same as a duck?

          Policy:  The mistaken notion that bossy people have that they can influence other people's behavior through majority rule.
          • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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            34. +++

          • area woman (5249 posts)
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            48. It wasn't just "mere accusations" in Lauer's case, Rose's case, and in

            many of the other cases.

            I'm so cute I shit kittens.
          • tripleQ (692 posts)
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            59. The Salem witch trials

            occurred in an era of religious superstition.  The initial accusers were a couple of teen girls.  But the accusations were then taken up by the powerful to augment their power.  They targeted the powerless:  widow women and outcasts.  The accusations were along the lines of, “A baby died – the witch must have done it.”

            In the current situation, iwe are hearing a chorus of the powerless speaking truth to power.

            In this case, the allegation – abuse of women by men – is already a widespread and well-documented problem/crime  in America and around the world.

            – In this case, the victims are gaining nothing – no fame or money –  only justice.

            – In this case, there are no supernatural elements.

            Yes, this situation IS a repeat of history.  It repeats the history of civil rights movements, of union organization, of uprisings of the downtrodden, and of muckraking-journalist exposees of conditions in sweatshops and asylums.

            You see it differently.  That’s unfortunate.  You seem to be saying that all these women in the news – the dozens making allegations against their famous employers – and the thousands contributing their #metoo stories, and the women here and in your life who mostly have stories of their own (if you’d care to listen)… are just attention-seeking drama queens like the initial teenage Salem accuser.  You seem to believe there are tens of thousands of crazy lying females, all conspiring to point fingers at  innocent men.

            Women!  We’re like that.  Just a vast collection of liars and hysterics, all  out to destroy ya. .

            My, my.

            • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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              66. I heard some different stories re salem. They all revolved around property.

              This is from someone who lists a long set of references (second link)

              http://www.on-a-limb.com/2015/09/5-things-about-the-salem-witch-trials-that-surprised-me.html

              http://cookstreetpublishing.typepad.com/suffer_a_witch/references.html

              5. There is no single reason “why” these events happened. There are many reasons. Some wealthy widows were convicted of witchcraft as a way to steal their land. Others were convicted because they refused to go along with the community. One young women came from a wealthy home, but fell into poverty after being cheated out of  her inheritance. And, sadly, there’s even a woman (Alice Parker) who we know almost nothing about.

              There are also a few curiosities. The first is Martha Carrier. Her hanging is the only hanging Cotton Mather attended. In some way, Martha Carrier’s crimes were personal to him. He called her a “rampant hag”. She was the daughter of one of the wealthiest men in the region. She fell pregnant at 15 years old and later married an indentured servant, who somehow managed to pay off his debt.

              Another curiosity was the Reverend George Burroughs. He was a charismatic leader, well liked leader, and a war hero, who fell into debt because the church elders refused him his salary. Many people point to this debt as the reason he was persecuted and tried as a witch. However, he wouldn’t have had the debt if he’d been paid for the work he’d done.

              Finally, there’s the curiosity of Giles Corey, who refused to participate in the trials. Because he refused to enter a plea, the Sheriff took him into a field and, over the course of 3 days, pressed him to death. There are people who say that he did this to save his land. This is possible, but not probable. He had already passed the titles of the land to his daughters and son-in-laws. There are people who say it happened because he was suffering from dementia. He had a history of stealing and was over the age of 80, so that’s possible.

      • tripleQ (692 posts)
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        57. The cause is justice.

        Who do you think is “being played”?

        Not I.  I am delighted to see justice done, no matter what the politics of the perpetrator.

        There is nothing progressive about exploiting power differences in the workplace or victimizing women or committing assault.  Sad that the women who worked for these “progressive heroes” found out they could be treated like dirt and, until now, had to watch the “hero” abusers be worshipped and lauded.

        All fall down.  Good riddance, say I.

    • ThouArtThat (5781 posts)
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      "In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous  
      • PuffGranny (455 posts)
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        21. Consequences of equality?

        When your mother, sister, wife, or daughter go to work…you understand, don’t you, that they all have to or have had or will have to deal with sexual harassment at work?

        My neighbor could be a dick and use the law to fuck with me without cause, that is a consequence of people having access to the legal system. I’ll take my chances with people having rights under the law that sometimes someone will abuse it.

        #stillbernie
        • ThouArtThat (5781 posts)
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          22. As Stated – There Are Many Benefits – There Are Also Broader Consequences

          As for me, I am single with no women in my life for decades.

          "In America Today, Power Corrupts and Money Corrupts Absolutely" - Anonymous  
        • Silver Witch (5662 posts)
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          41. Truth. Complete total truth.

          :hug:  some days, when I was young, I thought of sucked rather than another day in an office with men touching and ogling.  Thank the goddess I am old and without breasts.  Men actually talk to my face.  Amazing.

          #Let'sTalkRevolution
    • Abakan (2891 posts)
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      6. Sometime leading with your dick…

      will get it cut off.

      Right now they are acting contrite and sorry, but I fear this will fade

      and before long we are back to business as usual.

      Anyone who tries to equate Moore with any of the others

      is not paying attention. He is the only one who felt it was ok to molest children.

      “I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” ― Thomas Jefferson
    • RufusTFirefly (2546 posts)
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      9. This is a good thing, but make no mistake: these are small fish

      Reminds me of all the attention paid to the bad behavior and exorbitant salaries of professional athletes while overlooking their “owners” who lurk in the background and will continue to operate as they always have: with impunity.

      • Tuesday (703 posts)
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        14. yes

        I think you’re right

      • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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        35. yep. and it won't make a damn bit of difference for poor or working

        class women either, imo.

        it’s mostly a show, imo.  with politics underneath.

        • tripleQ (692 posts)
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          58. That may be true in some workplaces

          but not in others.  I can tell you you that in my large company (in a red state) working-class low-level employees (who are mostly female) can and do lodge complaints – and high-level men have been fired for abuse.

          Why is my company so strict?  Because people spoke up and raised hell. And maybe because the management fears lawsuits and bad PR.  Or maybe because management realizes that a good environment helps productivity and employee retention.

          The current attention to what many of us women (and some men) face in the workplace will help many people.  It won’t help *everybody* – but helping some, and putting many employers on notice, is a step in the right direction.  I see nothing to criticize.  I am cheering for justice – delayed justice, incomplete justice, but obviously better than no justice at all.

           

    • Marym625 (27224 posts)
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      11. On The Daily Radical

      When the mighty fall.. Fuck ’em. They deserve it

      Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • oldandhappy (3907 posts)
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      12. Excellent!

      They did and do think they are above it all.

      Invest in people.  Seek TRUTH.
    • bobthedrummer (3155 posts)
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      13. Let's not forget the clergy-some have preyed on the most vulnerable w/o justice

      Bishop Accountability

      http://www.bishopaccountability.org

      All power to the People.
      • VagrantPeters (712 posts)
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        15. Sadly. these attrocities have gone largely unpunished and in my mind they

        are much more egregious.  Rampant sexual misconduct on a colossal scale against children all in the name of ‘god’ – nothing to see here.  Oh look, a comedian asked if he could jerk-off in front of some women – oh, we got all the time in the world for that.

        I think we can walk and chew gum at the same time but we choose to lie down and take our time with the gum, meanwhile the Vatican is on roller skates.

         

         

        "If you could see the you that I see, when I see you see me, you'd see yourself so differently, believe me." - Rollins
    • closeupready (1879 posts)
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      16. They laugh, cuz they know they're untouchable, not becuz what she said was wrong

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7xVOV4b4XI

      Wasn’t just the thread title that made me post that; Sinead O’Connor’s song and life have been brought to my mind so much over the last year, but this song seems to been inspired by her own experiences with sexual abuse.

      The opinions and views expressed herein are solely those of the author.
    • INTJ (2649 posts)
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      20. IMO, belief that one can get away with it, likely releases a lot of behavior

      I read a study a while back that surveyed people’s attitudes about adultery, and 70% of men -and- women said they likely practice adultery if they thought they could get away with it.

      Which sort of raises a second series of questions about what it means “to get away with it”.

      If you can keep a victim from becoming an accuser, you may greatly increase how much you ‘can get away with’

      And that project well fits how the monied and powerful get away with various forms of abuse.

      People with (enough) money can use that money to keep victims from becoming accusers.

      People with some controlling power over others can also use that power to keep victims from becoming accusers.

       

      I'm not going to argue  ...  just post 2 faux-facs and I'll see them in the morning.
      • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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        23. well said.

      • iggy (1831 posts)
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        37. The 'untouchability' happens on all levels

        If you’re a member of the ‘Club’, regardless of stature, you can get away with Murder, literally.

        I will give you a first-hand example:

        One of our staffers got into an argument with his son, who told him that “I hate what you do” He pulls out a .45 and shoots his son in the face, killing him instantly. The boys took this as a sign of loyalty and got him off on Justifiable Homicide.

        When the judgement came in, they held a party to celebrate their ‘victory’ and to make an example to others as to how far they were willing to go to protect their own.

        I was invited to the party. That’s where I found out what happened. They wanted everyone to know, even me.

         

        Truth has no Expiration Date. Life without Dignity is Slavery.
        • Silver Witch (5662 posts)
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          42. Oh fuck Iggy

          oh my fucking unicorn.  So sorry you had to even know if this. Peace my friend

          #Let'sTalkRevolution
          • iggy (1831 posts)
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            50. They were just trying to fuck with my head

            They were giving me a warning too.

            I didn’t find out until I got there.

            Truth has no Expiration Date. Life without Dignity is Slavery.
            • Silver Witch (5662 posts)
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              55. Stay safe my friend.

              Iffy you are an important addition to this place.

              #Let'sTalkRevolution
              • iggy (1831 posts)
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                61. Thank You, my friend.

                :hug:

                Truth has no Expiration Date. Life without Dignity is Slavery.
    • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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      24. Freakin' Matt Lauer hires an electrician to put in a button in his desk

      to lock the door and prevented being interrupted. No one knew about that either, I guess.

      https://pagesix.com/2017/11/29/more-women-accuse-matt-lauer-of-sexual-harassment/

      • glinda (2241 posts)
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        25. Personally I would want security and to be hidden from intruders.

        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
        • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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          26. Intruders who could interrupt his time with certain women is what he

          apparently was concerned about.

          *Matt Lauer​ gave a “Today” show co-worker a sex toy, along with a note explaining how he’d like to use it on her; called another female employee to his office and then dropped his trousers to expose himself to her — and even had a button under his desk that allowed him to lock his office door without getting up so he couldn’t be walked in on mid-tryst, according to a blockbuster report published Wednesday.

          • glinda (2241 posts)
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            27. I read that. Also read quite a few were consensual.

            My position is to parse “each” part of the accusations and not make a story up out of all of them. Like they do on “TV”.

            Not saying he didn’t chase women and not saying they did not chase him.

            I like both sides to stories personally but then again I have a Journalism Degree from when they gave a shat.

            They did forget to add in articles how hated he was for his political figure interviews.

             

            Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
            • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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              28. Lauer made a lot of money for NBC. His problem is they were not all

              consensual and they would have needed to be when confronted by those women if he wanted to retain his position. Even Weinstein has had working relationships with women that were not inappropriate. I don’t imagine anyone believes Lauer was a raging lunatic 24/7. He doesn’t need to be to lose his position and I doubt NBC preferred to fire him but believed they could not justify his continued employment.

              • glinda (2241 posts)
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                29. Yup. One placed that I worked, a few females enjoyed relations on the sides.

                Did see some climbing their positions. Saw also anger and jealously sometimes.

                There was a well known figure in MN lately that was accused of under age sexual relations (like 16) and also using his position to have relations yet witnessed many women chasing after him and hanging around him. I have to say there can be sometimes more than one side.

                I actually lived with one of the women and rented to her. Found out she was younger than she acted and looked (totally shocked!) and had to work to keep her away from older “well known artists and the cooler establishment men”. Tried as I did it was an epic failure.

                Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
                • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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                  30. I guess it goes back to a standard, working climate, the owner(s) of an

                  establishment wants to put forth. I have no idea if Lauer has any type of morals clause in his contract and then there are harassment issues they are suppose to abide by per state/fed law. Since he was an employee of NBC and not an executive, whoever may have attempted to gain favor for a position through sexual favors could be a real issue for NBC even now. Obviously I do not know those details but it would be interesting to learn how these power structures work with the hope to see wrong doing diminished as much as possible. There are too many good people who know what boundaries are and accept them, I have no sympathy for Matt Lauer.

                • roguevalley (2223 posts)
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                  32. I wouldn't take his word for consensual.

                  Be love. Be light. Fear is the only darkness. Love is the only light.
                  • glinda (2241 posts)
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                    44. Not sure it is his word.

                    Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
            • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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              36. thank you. i've seen plenty of that too, in every place i worked.

              women are human beings; they lie, cheat, and manipulate others for power and money, just like men do.

               

              • closeupready (1879 posts)
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                38. This is true, but that makes us Men's Rights Activists, on other boards.

                The opinions and views expressed herein are solely those of the author.
                • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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                  39. i prefer human rights activists

                  and due process

                  • glinda (2241 posts)
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                    43. Yes. Taking categories such a race, religion, gender out of the

                    discussion as the main point or more accurately “the focus’ would hopefully allow change  to happen. Coming together as a human race could not be more important than now lest the planet and it’s other inhabitants suffer while waiting.

                    Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
            • tripleQ (692 posts)
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              59. The consensual relationships did not get him fired.


              The women who pursued  him did not get him fired.

              What got him fired was harassment and abuse.

              Please do not use “some women consented” as a fig-leaf to excuse the fact that others didn’t.

              Most rapists sometimes have consensual sex.  Most pedophiles sometimes have relations with adults.  Most killers  let thousands of their acquaintances  live. That doesn’t minimize the crimes they perpetrate on victims.

              • glinda (2241 posts)
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                64. Responding by parts

                Am not aware of which or what incidences DID get him fired.

                Did not read harassment and abuse charges. Read it differently from what you are stating. Read it as “opinion” in most places. Trying to just separate actual proof and facts from commentary or opinion.

                Quoting a couple of articles in regards to apparently his having relations with some.  I am not going to glom all his relations into one thing. Am suspecting they were not all the same. By this statement I am not condoning dating or whatever in the workplace.

                Crimes. Which crimes as by Laws? Or just crappy selfish behavior?

                I do not condone violation of human rights. I do not speak in divisive terms though regarding sexes, religions, agism, monetary status, etc…. This is meant to divert attention from what is actually going on. This is meant to cause more infighting of man against woman, etc….. If you had not noticed, this lead up has a strong intentional tie also to MN. Lock it up in red. Take and finally privatize the great Lakes, Log, mine for gold for currency, destroy  the resources as they are doing all over.

                This is a shell game.Yes things need to be addressed but moreover people need to get their eyes back on the ball and not allow things to defend to HRC land.

                 

                Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
                • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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                  65. can you explain what

                  the connection to MN/great lakes is?

                  thanks

                  • glinda (2241 posts)
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                    67. 2 attacks simultaneously in MN going on

                    right now. Garrison, who is a massive fundraiser for Dems every election and Franken, one of our only half ass decent Senators although even that could be debated on certain points but I digress….

                    Both House and Senate have been taken over by R’s. The Governor is a D. They want to change that to an R. So they are kicking out the legs of the stool to do it and running a “moral” campaign now on the “charges” of impropriety.

                    Removing the D in the Gov’s Office will allow easier access to open far more mining and logging (for export to China) with little restrictions, The push for (the dirtiest) mining for gold is large also due to its importance in currency given recent Country alliances. The Great Lakes is the largest fresh body of water and it is right now in part surrounded by oil, gas and other toxic processes. It is also a port. The only border protected so to speak is the MN border. Once that is sewed up the great Lakes will most likely be privatized and all environmental hell will break loose. The Koch’s already have a strong footprint on the other sides and would most welcome the Lakes as a gift for a job well done while also destroying Indigenous spiritual connection to “rice” which will be greatly affected. We have many Tribal Groups.

                    MN is vulnerable to the recent diversions. The “Moral  issue” is the big one right now. As are many…but we are very important to in a sense put one of the final nails in the coffin.It cannot be understated the support for Bernie that was present here also and as a Blue State, the importance of that let alone and being one of the slower states to experience climate disruption. Especially at the Great Lakes portion.

                    And as a side, Duluth is already being bought up by 1%ters, massive expensive condos are bolting from the ground and properties being bought up for rentals and investment. All in preparation of what they hope will come.

                     

                    Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
                    • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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                      68. Thank you. Very frightening but to me highly believable. Do you know of

                      any publicity or push-back around this?

                      • glinda (2241 posts)
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                        70. There are some environmental Groups working on various fronts. Sadly

                        the D that represents that area just voted against the Boundary Waters area. He is not a friend to the environment but to mining, etc…..in fact he introduced the bill with a evangelical nutbag R.  Franken has moved somewhat in that direction also but yet we could see far worse and that is their mission. At least he has moments of sanity. Amy K, our other senator is not a friend to the environment either having twice co-sponsored “kill the wolves” Bills. She also loves Monsanto. One might think MN should have more Progressives in office and one might wonder the many reasons that we do not. I have my theories but some of it is because of intentional diversion tactics being played very hard right now here through all methods.

                        The issue tends to be parsed out in sections but not publicly out front specifically about the Great Lakes to any major sense. It should be.Have only pieced this together form several facts and articles and watching what happens in WI also. They are introducing Laws copying some in Walker’s WI also.

                        So if our Politicians are falling in line for them we cannot afford to be stupid and distracted on purpose. Everything….and I mean everything….comes down to fossil fuel, Pharma, food and water control, etc…..EVERYTHING. All else is a cover for the true end result.

                        I sound like a broken record on comments everywhere but people have fallen for these ploys and this is what we get as a result.

                        Animals know more than we do. - Native American proverb
                      • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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                        71. I have a similar sense, not necessarily on the details, but definitely on the

                        larger game and strategy.

    • Silver Witch (5662 posts)
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      40. DAILY RADICAL worthy.

      Thank you.

      #Let'sTalkRevolution
    • area woman (5249 posts)
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      45. In Lauer's case, in Rise's case and in many of the other

      cases, it’s more than “mere accusations.” Matt Lauer probably should have been out if a job a long time ago.

      I'm so cute I shit kittens.
      • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
        Profile photo of Jefferson23 Donor

        46. Lauer is done. My hope is to see the powerful ones there at NBC get nailed

        for knowing and enabling Lauer. It is ridiculous for any organization to go through all these hoops for the idiot Matt Lauer. As if his talent was so great there was no way to replace him. barf

         

        • area woman (5249 posts)
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          47. I agree.

          I actually meant this to be a reply up thread, but posted in the wrong spot. We have too many people here who think these guys are victims and it’s starting to piss me off.

          I'm so cute I shit kittens.
          • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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            49. It troubles me too. No doubt there are people who have witnessed

            wrong doing from women on one level or another. But I would hope they could remember the statistics we know from FBI for example. There are 2 to 8 percent I believe of false accusations. The prevailing problem of abuse is a heavily under reported problem..be it the most heinous, rape, to work place sexual harassment. If there were women who freely participated in sexual encounters with Lauer for professional gain, that should be examined b/c it speaks to another level of discrimination against any employee who refused to participate and may have been left behind as a result. I do not see those consensual arrangements as innocent behavior, the top dogs of an organization are suppose to be the firewall against all wrong doing.

             

            • Aerows (4010 posts)
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              53. Which lady wants to announce

              “I’ve been used and abused”?

              None.

              That is why it goes under-reported. But heaven help us if a man gets CAUGHT being a perverted SOB.

              Root: If we're just information, just noise in the system, we might as well be a symphony.
              • Jefferson23 (7274 posts)
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                54. Yep. There is a real opportunity now for management to finally protect women

                as they should…that is my hope anyway. It is disgusting to read how long it went on at NBC. If executive management at NBC is found to be willing enablers it should bring significant change. That’s what I want to see next, many of them should lose their job. Also, if the heavyweight bystanders such as the co-anchors knew, let the public be aware of it now. I hope this begins to put fame into a better perspective…we do not know these people. Lauer excelled at being a major creep.

              • INTJ (2649 posts)
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                62. It also seems like some of the men and women that see things, don't say things.

                It’s really not just the victims that are aware of what’s going on (and too often on, and on and on), and fail to say anything.

                Within the circles of daily activity in most businesses people’s lives cross paths and they can become suspicious and even pointedly aware of signs of sexual shinanigans going on and they say nothing.

                I served on a faculty disciplinary committee that ousted a tenured theology full professor who was also a Presbyterian minister.   We read accounts and heard testimony of staff and faculty who said they had for years very strongly suspected what was going on.  And each of these testifiers had rationales for why they never came forward with their concern to HR or a Dean.    A long time member of the department of the dismissed and defrocked minister/theologian said she had remained silent out of concern for the College, and was concerned that coming forward would “seriously hurt the Department” (as if a faculty member having sex with undergrads wouldn’t do just that!).

                I learned back then that few people, male or female, really want to share even very strong suspicions about a co-worker.    We are raised from childhood to see ‘squealing’ as bad behavior, and as adults we are discouraged by potential blow back from peers and/or legal actions for making a charge.

                There’s a wall of silence that has protected sexual misbehaviorists in the workplace, and surprisingly many of us and our co-workers turn out to be the voiceless bricks of that wall.

                Somehow, that’s got to be addressed in a manner that protects everyone’s presumption of innocence yet lets concerns be communicated and fairly investigated.

                I'm not going to argue  ...  just post 2 faux-facs and I'll see them in the morning.
                • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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                  69. some? lol. try "most".

                  they don’t want to lose their position, job, income, status, even when, by objective measures, they are quite secure financially, career-wise, etc.

                  look at weinstein.  any number of famous actresses, very rich now or with independent income from the beginning of their careers (i.e. born into appreciable wealth) didn’t same a damn thing publicly until it came out in the media.  There are many photos of these same actresses kissing up to weinstein, attending benefits with him, blah blah blah.

                  They knew.

                  • INTJ (2649 posts)
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                    72. I've learned not to post something that begs a statistic to which I can't link

                    I think some is a valuation that will survive scrutinity and even a post that might report a link to some obscure survey.  Some is an unspecified value which seem obvious on it’s face.  If someone researches that claim more successfully than me, some could turn out to be more or less than a majority, and it would still survive as a truism.

                    I have another suspicion I know I can’t quantify, that is more a haunting speculation,  that ‘some’ men, who are or are friends with some politicians, will like look at the mounting financial losses dropping onto Matt Lauer and others, and will look to establish ways to protect themselves via legislation that will push-back against workarounds of the legal system that we know as trials carried out in the media, or judgements without trial simply by public opinion, and/or trials in which (ex) employers presented with accusations transform into prosecutor, judge and jury.

                    I’m not sure the result of such legislative pushback is going to be the sort of reform wanted by some feminists on this important issue.

                    I'm not going to argue  ...  just post 2 faux-facs and I'll see them in the morning.
                    • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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                      73. I take your point, which is quite reasonable. But I believe 'most' in the

                      group I’m thinking of.  His staff has, for example, already said as much, as have a number of well-known people who had ‘suspicions’.

                      “I’m not sure the result of such legislative pushback is going to be the sort of reform wanted by some feminists on this important issue.”

                      Agree.

          • Aerows (4010 posts)
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            52. They aren't victims.

            They got CAUGHT doing awful things and do not want their fragile little egos being called upon it.

            That is what the issue is.

             

            Root: If we're just information, just noise in the system, we might as well be a symphony.
    • Aerows (4010 posts)
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      51. I have always adored Sinead O'Connor

      There is no other Troy for you to burn.

      Just amazing.

      Root: If we're just information, just noise in the system, we might as well be a symphony.
      • Coldmountaintrail (3633 posts)
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        60. Yeats

        No Second Troy

        By William Butler Yeats (1916)

        Why should I blame her that she filled my days

        With misery, or that she would of late

        Have taught to ignorant men most violent ways,

        Or hurled the little streets upon the great,

        Had they but courage equal to desire?

        What could have made her peaceful with a mind

        That nobleness made simple as a fire,

        With beauty like a tightened bow, a kind

        That is not natural in an age like this,

        Being high and solitary and most stern?

        Why, what could she have done, being what she is?

        Was there another Troy for her to burn?