This could be it.

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    • #9361
      David the Gnome
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      • Total Posts: 2,720

      For a long time, many of us have considered what a total collapse of the system would look like.  Some of us have long believed it to be practically inevitable.  Perhaps that is the case, corruption has long been deeply rooted within our political system.

      Nonetheless… I am finding it difficult to come to grips with certain realities.  One of these is that – there is a real possibility of a rather abrupt end to the food stamp program.  Should that happen, men, women and children will starve.  Millions of them.

      I ask myself if, in such a case, communities and/or states will come together to help.  I cant believe that even Republicans are cruel enough to watch their neighbors starve.  I cant believe that politicians wont find some way to fix this.

      Yet if the worst of my fears are realized… this is not a good way, a rational way, or a sane way to bring change.  More than likely, in times of severe unrest, militant groups will float to the top.  People who believe the feudal ages were the good old days.

      Some people have suggested to me that this will end Trump and the Republican party.  Basically – breaking eggs to make an omelet.  But these are millions of human lives at stake.

      This is not the way to make change.  Whatever the compromise or cost, a humane society cannot permit millions to starve, in the richest Nation on earth.

      Am I being paranoid?  Is the possibility so far fetched that I seem ridiculous?  I cant tell.  My therapist tells me I’m not crazy – but I wonder..

    • #9365
      mmonk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 890

      .

      Fear not the path of Truth for the lack of People walking on it. - RFK

    • #9366
      Canoeist52
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 113

      Bean-counting Ferengis have been in charge since the Depression-era.

      "There is nothing pragmatic about an incremental solution to a catastrophic problem." - Ron Placone

    • #9367
      NV Wino
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 5,855

      I think it’s a genuine concern. I think we all know that the elite want to get rid of the riff raff, AKA us. And I don’t think they much care how it happens. So, no, I don’t think you’re crazy.

      “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee
      “Politicians and pro athletes: The only people who still get paid when they lose.” William Rivers Pitt

    • #9372
      elias39
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    • #9374
      Land of Enchantment
      Keymaster
      • Total Posts: 741

      bootstraps” party. They seek to eliminate all social programs that actually help people and funnel that money to the military. Since they cannot accomplish that in one fell swoop they eat away at it incrementally. The irony is rich, steered now by the Evangelicals, who look the other way at a vile a un-Christian president.

      “Hope is the feathered thing that perches in your heart.” ~ Emily Dickinson

    • #9382
      jwirr
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,640

      because neighbors actually live close to each other and because it has not been so long ago that there was an alternative system – our courthouse had surplus items that they distributed at the first of every month for the poor and they still have pretty good food shelves and other types of groups that help.

      But cities will be a whole different matter. The haves are by no means neighbors to the poor. The only reason they would try to “help” would be to stop real violence. And they would be more likely to be killed by the militarized police force than fed.

       

       

       

      jwirr

      • #9420
        a little weird
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 702

        When I was a child, there was a strong sense of community in my rural community but it doesn’t seem to be the case so much anymore.  And there really isn’t much of a social safety net.  Homelessness, drug addiction, rising desperation and crime – they are often associated with urban areas but they are growing problems in rural areas as well and there are usually very few organizations set up to address them.  There are no means of public transportation to help people get access to what resources do exist.  If you live 20 minutes from town and have no car or no money for gas, the distribution centers aren’t going to help.  The churches sometimes offer some support but it is sporadic at best.

        And while the community might pull together when someone’s house burns down or a person gets cancer, I’m not so confident there will be much sympathy when someone is going hungry because they just can’t find work or they become addicted to drugs.

      • #9430
        glinda
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 804

        to my home of the Twin Cities. At least I fight that urge daily.

        I do not want to be stuck on a hwy bumper to bumper fleeing possible disasters or being attacked for food. Or have no access to food!

        Being rural has many many drawbacks but also some pretty strong points as you have already mentioned. Another one is the ability to communicate and pull together resources should the need arise.

        Animals know more than we do.

        • #11895
          NJCher
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,077

          When I was a child, there was a strong sense of community in my rural community but it doesn’t seem to be the case so much anymore.  

          I think right wing radio has changed small towns. I know of one specific example where it has turned a little town of 3500 people into suspicious people who pretty much only see the dark side. They imagine and see the worst in others. Giving? Nope. Not gonna’ happen. I hate to generalize, and maybe I’m wrong, but this is what I’m seeing. I keep looking for things that will contradict it, but so far I’ve only got a few instances. (BTW, this is related to a work project.) Very few independent thinkers, lots of lemmings, and no kindness or goodness to speak of it. Kindness does shine through here and there–just that there’s so little of it.

           

    • #9388
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,797

      One attribute of human behavior is “In Group vs Out Group” subjugation and tribalism.  By creating classes and distinctions between groups, human beings can easily inflict the worst imaginable deprivations on others.  Witness  WWII, slavery etc.  In most cases this behavior is based on the real or imaginary perception of some resource disparity.  The others will take my food, take my possessions, take my ….

      Autocratic and despotic leaders understand this nature of human beings and willfully play on the fears that “others” are out there and are ready to wreak havoc and chaos.  Such exhortations are the basis of tribalism.  Bringing this to today, what has the Republican party done for decades?  Whip up fears and sentiments about “others”.  Playing one group against another is part of their playbook.

      So, can human beings let other humans starve to death – yes (WWII – Poland).  Can human beings let other human beings be subjugated to torture – yes (Guantanamo bay).  Can human beings let other human beings be killed – yes (WWII – US Slavery – Pol Pot Cambodia).

      All of which leads to POTUS and the current Government shutdown.  Will Trump blink if some starve due to programs like SNAP and other assistance running dry – nope.  Will the Republican party blink if some starve – nope.  Will some Trump supporters blink – nope.  At the end of the day it is all just base human behavior that has been carefully cultivated and conditioned by the ultra-right wing.

      Sad to say, things will only get worse as Climate Change unfolds and resources really start to run dry.  That is when the collapse will become evident to all.  And then it truly will be every man, woman and child for themselves.

      Rights aren't rights if someone can take them away. They're privileges.
      That's all we've ever had in this country, is a bill of temporary privileges.

      - George Carlin

      Sooner or later we all sit down to a banquet of consequences.

      - Robert Louis Stevenson

      Politics is the entertainment division of the Military Industrial Complex.

      - Frank Zappa

    • #9393
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,229

      My wish would be to inject some humor like, ‘just because your paranoid doesn’t mean they are not out to get you!’ This statement does not fit your concerns. This is a serious matter.

      The real problem here is people in power have an agenda and are using any means to fit their end. Then there is the problem of people who think they are informed, yet do not have clue nor do they listen more or less comprehend matter in full. Also there is a class of persons who just do not care. There a number of reasons why people do not agree which seem negative.

      Being self confident is difficult at best, especially when the wall of your self being are seemingly caving in around you. Here is the thing, an individual can solve a complex problem due to being flexible and quick to respond. That is an advantage of being an individual. When a group needs to solve a complex problem there needs to be focus to keep the group together, thus productive. The inherent problem of being a group is it is not flexible and quick to respond. Just remember it is easier to destroy than to build and maintain.

      As far as letting people starve, there is a group of people who nothing more than antagonist. This group of people that are focused on destroying a system without a thought of consequences. Fortunately for society, this is a small group people. The larger group of people will take time to respond, but respond they will. As an individual do what you need to do to keep yourself fit and healthy.

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

    • #9402
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,541

      you get an idea how meager is the regard for human life that many Americans have.  Or closer to home, Ferguson or Charlottesville.

      So the notion that “oh, even Republicans wouldn’t let their neighbors starve!” is more than just a bit naive, considering how smart you are, David, and how politically aware you are.

      But K&R for food-for-thought.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #9445
        David the Gnome
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,720

        At least that’s what I’d like to think.  In spite of all that I know and have seen I still believe in humanity.  In our potential – and our potential for kindness.  Unfortunately that potential is no where near met.

        I think though, of my Grandfather.  A world war II vet who never had anything bad to say about anyone – but a Republican.  The sort of man he was, I cant imagine him letting his neighbors starve.

        Not sure what he would have thought of today’s world, told me once that television was the most evil invention in human history…

        What it will likely come down to then, is the efforts of individuals – and their efforts to organize community food drives.  Time for me and those like me to get busy.

        Might not get food stamps again after the 10th, but on the 10th I get 190.  My new computer can wait, too.  People are going to need food.  Time to make some calls.

    • #9403
      Two way street
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,822

      In the past, Texas Governor Rick Perry took down the food stamp program by laying off the state workers that did their part of the paperwork saying that Texas churches would be able to take over feeding the poor.  It was a fiasco!  The churches told Perry to get the food program up and running as soon as possible.  The specially trained personnel were replaces with temp agency office workers who knew nothing about the special federal paperwork that was a must to allow the program to function.  During that time of several months, the churches and food banks could not keep up with the need!  The State of Texas was fined about $3.78 million.

      IMO: Trump is trying to make everyone in need apply or re-apply for aid.  I think Trump is planning to house recipients in tented work camps to be fed by the Catholic Church. Then anyone can donate to the Church.

      Does anyone have the site address that shows the picture of Trump signing the order to bring the troupes home from Syria with the Catholic Oligarchy standing behind him? It is my belief that the Oligarchy is behind the embassy and mission movement from their usual locations to Jerusalem.

      2020 Campaign Season: We the People are in the fight for our lives and livelihoods.

    • #9405
      OCMI
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 135

      Do any of the politicians playing games with the government shutdown give a rip about the people who are being negatively impacted?  No, not really, despite the platitudes some will offer.  They have amply demonstrated this time and again through legislation enabling predatory crony capitalism.  Ever more frequently, politicians are voicing their disdain for the commoners both in insistence on the continuance and merits of the boot-strap meritocracy and outright condemnation of entire swaths of the populace.  These politicians’ employers, the oligarchy, will not give a rip until their own profits or possessions are threatened in a material way.

      Communities are a different thing entirely.  People in general tend more to offering assistance to familiar faces than to amorphous “others”.  Many communities will band together to lessen the impact of this brinksmanship.  As jwirr commented above, this assistance is most likely to occur in more rural areas where multiple socio-economic classes are present and living in a co-mingled social atmosphere.  This help will be offered regardless of the political party or those who give or those who receive.  Areas in which only the poor have been massed will have hit-or-miss charity efforts, as the wealthy in cities tend to live in pockets isolated both by geography and law enforcement, so civil unrest is highly likely.

      The majority of mankind is ground down by industrial oppression in order that the small remnant may live in ease.
      —Helen Keller, 1911

      Joe Biden, you're no Jack Kennedy: "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."—John F Kennedy, 1962

    • #9407
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,071

      I work in a county building where the SNAP office is located. If the shutdown drags on into February, the benefits will be cut unless the State of Ohio steps in, and so far don’t think anyone has even talked about the possibility.

      If that happens, things could get very interesting around here very quickly.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #9431
      glinda
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 804

      Maybe think about a garden for growing food. A community garden effort perhaps. Look at your observations as an opportunity rather than a sadness and stress. Be proactive. Things may happen in small amounts from the bottom on up that hopefully will lead to some changes. I know of a couple people out East that are doing just that…thinking small projects and networking in the community. Building.

      Animals know more than we do.

    • #9449
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,720

      For sharing your thoughts on this and telling me I’m not crazy.

      I think that it is time to consider some things.  How much food and resources we, our neighbors and friends and families have available.  If we each do something to put together some supplies in case of the worst – we will all have something to share.

      I’m going to start calling local food pantries and seeing what they need most.  Local churches to ask them to step up – if they are not already prepared to do so.  Local farmers to talk about surplus – whatever they can afford to spare.

      Fortunately I know the owners of several grocery stores, too.

      Maybe disaster is coming, but if we each do something, maybe it wont be as terrible as I imagine.

    • #9680
      HIP56948
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      • Total Posts: 180

      Actually, there are quite a few republicans who couldn’t care if people staved.  I’ve known several of that type in my 74 years.  Completely selfish sociopaths.  There was only one that i understood and liked. He explained it like this.  “I parrot other people to hide my feelings and lack of sympathy”  “It’s not that I don’t want to care about seeing somebody die or starve or are in pain, It’s just I’m not even sure what it would feel like to care.”  “It’s just not in me.”  I wouldn’t kill anybody but I wouldn’t make any effort to stop them from dying”  “I KNOW that I’m what you might say if you’re honest..I’M  BROKEN”

      As I said, he knew there was something very strange about his feelings but at least, he talked about them to me. I liked him for the simple reason that  he admitted his severe shortcomings as a human being.  Strange..I know.

      Crawling through reality.

    • #9687
      Cold Mountain Trail
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      • Total Posts: 9,805
    • #9794
      HalfCentury Man
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      • Total Posts: 816

      The larger the dying monster; the greater the distruction wrought by it’s spasms.

      In 2016, I said Hillary would be the first woman President, Bernie would be the first Jewish President, and Trump would be the last President. I truly believe six more years of Trump and republican (both full flavor and republican lites) will doom us to the dustbin of history.

      Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

      John F. Kennedy: 13 March 1962.

    • #9912
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,573

       Unfortunately there is only the Vichy Democrats.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #10312
      D503
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 262

      and as ‘they’ say, just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.

      As an oldster, I’m wondering where this will end. Living in the ozarks, which used to be Democrat 20 years ago,

      I see more and more of our institutions failing. Schools are being underfunded and over-crowded.

      This state almost passed another tax for ‘roads’ that gave the police 2/3s of the funds advertised for road improvement. 20 years ago, this state had the best roads in the nation. Now, almost the worst. There now exists a repub majority, a veto-proof majority. So, the people are screwing themselves and really aren’t paying much attention.

      They are trying to get by on meager wages and raises(if). While rent, food, utilities keep going up.

      What’s most unfortunate, I believe, there is no longer any truth from the media to be found anywhere.

      The bots, whether right or neo-right, shout down anyone attempting to put the truth out there or their owners just have them laugh it off. trump uses the bully-pulpit the way a bully would. It’s wrong and should be stopped.  But it takes $$$ and the left has very little of that.

      "Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent." - Asimov; "If you push something hard enough, it will fall over." - Fud's First Law of Opposition

    • #10465
      ravensong
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,222

      to have access to affordable healthcare.

      You have to be a seriously sick puppy to become a Republican in the first place. Everything they do is inhumane, and flat out evil.

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #10475
      Cold Mountain Trail
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    • #10529
      Mick063
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 578

      I have seen incremental cultural and political changes over my entire lifespan.

      It boils down to this.

      Every institution is designed to take every nickel you have accumulated over you lifetime. I don’t care what institution it is, it’s purpose is to ultimately take your life savings.

      The pretense of moral issues as a backdrop. God, guns, immigrants, abortion, race, incarceration,…..you name it. All issues designed to get us collectively “spun up”, emotionally invested in any given issue that is engineered to distract us from the legalized stealing of our life savings.

      The entire populace has been conditioned to relinquish their grandparent’s level of “standard of living” in pursuit of some form of social justice instead. To be more effective, personal rights are frequently attacked to purposely create more anxiety and distraction. All of it a front to allow for stealing our collective wealth.

       

      "I welcome their hatred" Franklin D Roosevelt

      • #11197
        Enthusiast
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,573

        We are here to put a stop to this abuse.

        I have created a simple meme that I would like to see gain prominence.

        It is, “Stop abusing the American people!”

        Spread it far and wide.

        I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

        Me

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