This is an unbelievable, unprecedented moment in American history. Let us demand that Congress act, and act now.

Homepage | Forums | Main Forums | General Discussion | This is an unbelievable, unprecedented moment in American history. Let us demand that Congress act, and act now.

Viewing 12 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #322821
      caliny
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,651

    • #322825
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,893

      @caliny

      Hi caliny,

      Great Grandstanding.  Yet, we all know that Congress will do nothing because their donors will not allow it.  Congress had a chance with the CARES act and what did we get – the greatest upward transfer of wealth to the 1% in the history of the world that Bernie supported with his vote.  So, Bernie can thump his chest every day and it will be nothing more than “tilting at windmills”.  Such is the world we live in.

      TAT

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
      - George Orwell

      "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
      Rather than truth as the authority."
      - Gerald Massey

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

    • #322829
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 713

      Yep

      sad but true the usual liberals are doing the same bs  nothing gonna change until we force change down their throats

      Earthartist

    • #322835
      a little weird
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 626
    • #322855
      RufusTFirefly
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,285

      I’ve been a big defender of Bernie throughout, and I do think he’s done a lot to fundamentally change the political landscape, but I must confess that his urgings seem rather hollow at this point.

      • #323039
        ArtfromArk
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 845

        we don’t have anyone we can rally around right now? I am speaking as an old JFK/RFK Democrat.

        • #323046
          Electrolyte Orchestra
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 291

          It has to be rallying around a player to be named later.
          Rallying around Bernie at this point does what exactly?

        • #323196
          Voltairine
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,760

          need their authority figure to rally around… and when that figure betrays their hopes – as they always do – and replacement cant be found, they have nothing.

          Anarchists etc. libertarian socialists, grass roots social movements, no such problems. DIY gets shit done.

          Aloha!

    • #323028
      ElfinWilde
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 270

      on this forum blaming Bernie for not being able to get it done.  He NEVER said that HE could.  He said WE could.  Unfortunately, the WE in this case have failed.  He is using his position as a bully pulpit to urge us onward.

      If “his urgings seem rather hollow at this point” it is not because he has not/is not doing his part.  It is because the WE in the formula failed him.  We are the ones making “his urgings seem rather hollow at this point.”

      Bernie has been leading to where you all say you want to go.  Why aren’t you all following rather than criticizing him for you all not following?  Why are you not leading people to the path?  Because Bernie’s urgings will continue to seem rather hollow until those who believe as he does fill them with purposeful effective actions.

       

       

      You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here.

    • #323040
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,358

      @elfinwilde

      The revolution, his campaign, his funding, that all came from people like us.  He chose to suspend his campaign and endorse one of the worst, most corrupt Presidential candidates in history.  Leading?  Bull shit.  What he is saying is hollow because he lacks the courage of his convictions – and the nerve for a hard fight.

      You want us to follow?  Then you suggest that we abandon and betray those who believe in us – need us – and tell them to support someone who has only contempt for them.

      Consider me unimpressed.  He is damn well accountable for his own failures – for failing to challenge voter manipulation, intimidation and fraud.  For not even acknowledging it.  It is not he who will pay for them though – it is all of us who dared to believe in him.

      So, fuck that.

      • #323067
        ElfinWilde
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 270

        You certainly talk big on this forum, but what have you done in the real world to bring about change?  I’m not asking as a put down.  I know that you have big load to carry just in your own life.

        But I have a problem with people who denigrate those who are doing the hard work to make change happen.  When your efforts match his, then you can begin to criticize.

        Remember, without Bernie, this movement had no center and didn’t really exist except as an amorphous cloud without any leadership or form.

        AS for his endorsing Biden… well, everyone has to make up his/her own mind.  He obviously thinks that getting rid of Trump is the most important thing right now.  I don’t know what Obama said to Bernie when he met with him just before the Wisconsin primary, but whatever it was tipped the scales.  Watching what is happening right now, I am, very reluctantly leaning in that direction.

        With Biden, the process is slowed and we have the chance to fight another day (I hope).

        Trump is an unbalanced dictator wannabe with a Hitler complex whose own party are a bunch of wusses afraid of the little tin man’s petty vindictiveness.  They will allow him whatever he wants.  I don’t think there will be another day if Trump is reelected.

        You are a child of the Universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here.

        • #323080
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 13,652

          @elfinwilde Especially when that person has acted in an obviously craven manner. Bernie Sanders, AOC, all of the progressive Democrats in Congress have done just that. And fuck your hard work for change crap. It wasn’t any work at all to vote against the Greatest Theft in History. None of the progressive “leaders” had the courage or the character to do so because they’re too busy sucking up to the likes of Nancy Pelosi.

          They claimed to lead. They claimed to be ready to fight for change. They had the opportunity to do so, and failed.


          @davidthegnome
          has never had the opportunity. He wasn’t in Congress. They were. They failed, not him. He has every right to say he was betrayed, because he was. That’s a fact.

          And then you go straight to a version of But Trump! Democrats have already failed there as well because they were calling him Hitler and Putin’s puppet when he was neither. Russiagate was a proven hoax. They’ve cried wolf so often that even when Trump really does act somewhat Hitleresque they can’t even say it with meaning, and they do nothing but enable him!

          As for the election, let’s get through the pandemic and the current civil unrest and see if either Trump or Biden are still running for election before we start with the Vote Blue No Matter Who because they’re Not Trump horseshit. For all we know, we could have a provisional government by then. Things are very volatile right now, and so are all of our tempers.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

        • #323097
          game meat
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,216

          It is Sanders who should be grateful for having a dedicated group of supporters who believed in him and supported him in both big and small ways. Whether they volunteered to work on his campaign, supported his cause financially through donations or even something as small as shilling for him on the internet, it ALL adds up, and what it adds up to, THAT is the real hard work. It is because of the entire collective of Bernie supporters that he’s a household name, that he even had a chance in hell of becoming president, and yes, it’s because of them (us) that he sold so many books which ultimately made him a very rich man.

          The notion that he’s beyond criticism unless the critique is coming from someone who is Sanders’ equal in accomplishments is hero worship nonsense, frankly. Our politicians are our employees, and they ought to be praised when they do well and called out when they don’t. We should not treat them as celebrities or cult leaders, and reduce ourselves to a pitiful gaggle of cheering fans or mindless followers.

          Under the circumstances, it’s perfectly reasonable to feel Sanders let us down, or to even feel betrayed, so here we are. I mean, would you make that argument for anything else? Would you tell an employee complaining about being shit on by management to stfu because they never started their own business? It’s the same sort of logic. @elfinwilde

           

        • #323119
          closeupready
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,261

          criticism is prohibited, and will actually land you in prison, under certain circumstances.

          In the US, you don’t need to ‘earn’ the right to criticize and to express your views; it’s a right which was referred to as “inalienable” for a reason – you can’t be alienated from those rights no matter who wants to do that, whether that’s authorities or even yourself.


          @elfinwilde

          As with everyone, Bernie is a flawed person who is sometimes wrong.  I like and respect him, but he’s not the future.  Had he kept his hat in the ring and fought it out, I would have been willing to overlook almost everything.  Since he folded early, not so much.  Even worse, he scolded those of his supporters who were unwilling to support Joe Biden’s bid.  What else is there to say.

          He’s not a cult leader, he’s a politician.

          The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #323202
          Voltairine
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,760

          Winds of Change don’t need center to blow down old forms of oppression.

          Looking for Center? Look inside, your center is your heart, your balance. Stop searching center outside you, only to lose yourself.

          Aloha!

        • #323346
          ArtfromArk
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 845

          You rock!

    • #323087
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 713

      What have you done! Really here?

      Let’s see spent 5 years working to keep women’s healthcare legal, spent 3 years fighting to stop an anti gay group from passing 3 horrific bills, spent seven years fighting to protect puget sound from the shell fish industry that is killing it. We have just won our Federal law suite. 5 years working with 350. Started planet vs Pentagon. Last couple of years been doing peace keeping, and legal observing. Went to bat for the homeless against the state and city. Work with the homeless in the winter.  Helped with Organizing protest against Afghanistan And Iraq .  Organized a kayaktavist protest against oil trains at the PGA tournament.   What have you done?

      Bernie is a good men who should have found someone to run that was going to follow through, he did not. He lost me when he quit for the second time and he lost my respect when he endorsed a rapist, racist , war monger, and threatened his delegates. Bernie no longer has any meaning in this battle nor really does the government  it has failed and needs to be removed.

      Earthartist

    • #323090
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,358

      @elfinwilde

      Never really had the opportunity.  I could tell you why, i could explain it in great detail, but I won’t.  It isn’t worth it.

      • #323094
        Earthartist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 713

        Not true! you use your mighty pen or in this case fingers to write to educate to promote. The stories you have shared at JPR have been very educational for me and motivate me to work harder because I can, because I have the luck to be healthy and able to be on the streets, To be financially safe to be on the streets. Your writing always gives me a reason to keep fighting and believe me some days that is hard.

        Earthartist

      • #323205
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,760

        You keep on learning and sharing what you learn, keeping it real. It’s more than most.

        Aloha!

    • #323092
      xyzse
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,462

      I have to thank Bernie for staying with an issues based speech, rather than the platitudes of someone like Butti, Obama, etc., since he actually provides a policy solution unlike the others.

      Unfortunately, since he already left, he knee-capped other Progressives who were running in States that have not had their primaries yet.

      I am sorry, but that was a chilling and disheartening effect of him just stepping down on the fight.  Even before June.  He could have at least waited for some of the June primaries.

      By ceding the fight and getting out already during a time where people were looking for some sort of leadership, he bowed down and handed the baton to a senile, sexual-assaulting racist.

      He is not leading, but decided to follow party-line.  By giving up the primaries early, he frittered away whatever power and leverage he may have had.

      I am sorry, but I disagree that WE failed him.  People who really don’t have much, chipped in for his candidacy, making him one of the BEST Fundraisers in recent history, using a grass-roots approach of small dollar donors.  I for one, have donated to his candidacy and chipped in.  One of the few comments I made in YouTube on his most recent videos was that I DID donate, and was getting really close to 420, but he quit before I got there.

      I am the care-giver for my mother, and have so many other duties, with these uncertain times, why would I max out early?  Especially when I didn’t think he was going to win any way, but fact is, I donated for that chance.  2016 I canvassed and did phone banks for him, this time around I didn’t have time.

      He never went after Joe, he never made the case that he was the best equipped to defeat Trump because every single time he says something to that, he mentions that any one else in the stage with him can beat Trump.  It’s ridiculous and patently false.

      I will NOT follow him when he says to vote for Joe.  That is not going to happen.  I still think highly of him, and still consider him as one of the better ones out there.  However, in quitting early, he lost whatever push he really had.

      I still donate when he asks to split contributions with Progressive candidates, as well as issue based contributions.  IF that EVER goes to the Effing DNC, I’m out, and will feel betrayed.

      Also, Bernie became a figure-head of a movement that has been looking for someone to coalesce on.  The movement underneath him, is not a Cult of Personality, as many were going with him because he is decent, and has been fighting for the same thing for years.  It was him who let go of the movement, by dropping out, the movement itself is more than willing to look for someone else.

      • #323300
        ArtfromArk
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 845

        he was precluded from campaigning because of this corona stuff. And the DNC probably told him that if he didn’t concede, he would lose his seniority on Senate committees, since he’s “not really” a Democrat.

    • #323105
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,358

      @earthartist

      That really does make me feel better.  It has been a shitty day.

    • #323145
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 774

      Well Senator: Words, words words and that is all we

      get from you. Yes, the people need help. Then why did

      you not raise your voice and tried to stop the biggest

      robbery committed by your Congress? Even if it

      might have been useless you could have tried. No,

      Senator, you have become unimportant to the

      people due to your own cowardess. Good bye.

    • #323233
      SinMentiras SinVerguenza
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 45

      That is ALSO a certain type of self-important hubris. Submit them damn bills Senator.  Because from what I remember, you wrote the damn thing.  Remember when THAT happened????

      AND I too like to read David El Gnome and his take on things and to question his right to criticize someone who let him and millions of others down because perhaps he did not present his civic action bonafides is worthy of Hillary the Whore.  “Then YOU go run for something ….”  It was trash when she said it to the BLM and it’s just as trashy when used against one of our most earnest and sincere voices on this board.  David, keep on brother.  You have lurker fans in these here cyberhills.

      Bernie became victim of his own success because the giant populist money funnel brought the Rochas and Weavers scurrying around him.  Before long, their “long game” became a matter of fundraising with the wannabe Carville clones.  I truly believe that the amounts that flowed into the campaign corrupted the organization.  Imagine this:  Televangelist rants at the television and catches 1 out of 20,000 viewers so that they send him a “tithing”.   Next thing you know, he’s a millionaire flying around the world in a private jet.  I think that was the fly in the Berner ointment.  Before he folded, the constant barrage of BERNIE2020 internet ads on Youtube and other places rivaled the DR Squatch soap ads barfed up by Youtube.

      Arguably, the Democratic fascists ruled the day, fixed the vote, and got their way.  And they are fascists Johnson.   Just not that kind of fascist.

Viewing 12 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.