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  • LiberalElite (5016 posts)
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    Three dead after violent clashes at white nationalist rally

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/346346-one-dead-after-violent-clashes-at-white-nationalist-rally

    Three people were killed and 19 others were injured during a white nationalist rally in Charlottesville, Va., turning a day of violent demonstrations into a tragedy that rocked the nation.

    One of the three died after a car mowed down a group of protesters. The two other victims were Virginia State Police Department officers who were in a helicopter that crashed while surveilling the protests.

    The University of Virginia Health System said 20 people were brought to the hospital Saturday afternoon after a car plowed into a group of people protesting near a popular pedestrian mall in the college town. One died and the rest were being assessed and treated for injuries.

    travelerxxx, Shlabotnik, Pastiche and 11 othersjeff47, Major Hogwash, Passionate Progressive, Pacco Fransisco, PADemD, Silver Witch, Ohio Barbarian, ThouArtThat, Jan Boehmermann, Haikugal, LaaDeeDaaVA like this
    I feel much better since I've given up hope

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19 replies
  • Silver Witch (4856 posts)
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    1. I am at a loss for words.

    This horror reminds me of the riots in the 60s where people of color were hosed down in the streets and had dogs let loose on them.

    It is reminding me we have made so little progress and may never find the peace I have so long dreamed of.

    #Let'sTalkRevolution
  • Pacco Fransisco (3779 posts)
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    2. …and the sick evil sociopaths are blaming the victims for being in the street

    on another website that the SV owner runs. Fucking sick bastard.

    I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
  • Major Hogwash (2492 posts)
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    3. All of this violence was so unnecessary.

    Just because a statue of a Confederate General was being removed, and 2 parks in the city named after 2 Confederate Generals were being renamed.

    Pathetic.

    The real heroes are the people who showed up to protest those white supremacists. They should erect a statue in honor of the person who was killed today.

    • Snort McDork (2434 posts)
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      4. My friend from church is from Charlottesville

      Wonder what they will say tomorrow

    • LiberalElite (5016 posts)
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      5. They feel seriously threatened. I don't condone or excuse them in any way but,

      If they can’t see themselves as superior, their whole world is gone.  So, violent gun-humping thugs that they are, they lash out.  Ironic.

      Trump has some of this in common with them but he contents himself with late-night tweets and playing “Mine’s Bigger” with NK.

      I feel much better since I've given up hope
    • happyslug (218 posts)
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      6. I must protect they right to protest, for that right is important

      Whether you agree with the protesters or not is unimportant, they right to protest is also my right to protest.  Thus that fact they are protesting is NOT pathetic but a way for any group to express they point of view.  Suppression of such protest  is not the end of why they are protesting, it is just putting such points of view underground.  Bad points of view do well underground, but tend to die in the open air of a protest.

      As to the three deaths, two occurred when a helicopter crashed.  Helicopter are mechanical wonders, in many ways designed to crash.  I have not read anything suggesting anything but mechanical failure in regard to that crash.  Poor maintenance may be at fault, pilot error may be the cause, but it does not look like anything the protesters did except for having a protest.  To blame the protesters for those deaths is like blaming speeders for the death of a State Police officer when he dies in an accident not involving speed.  The officer was on the road to catch speeders, but it was not a speeders who killed him.  The same with these officers in the helicopter, they deaths were NOT the result of the protests, but that they used a helicopter to watch the protests. Thus not the fault of the protesters.

      As to the third death, that appears to be someone who ran his car, by accident, into the counter protest and when surrounded and confronted by the counter protesters panicked and hit the gas.

      Ignoring the fact it was the counter protest that was hit, again, both sides had the right to protest.  One requirement of any protest is to do so where people can see the protest.  That requirement brings with it conflicts between users, the protesters and other people who want to use the same space. This leads to conflicts that can have, and in this case did, bad consequences.  It is a problem with any protest and why such protests are often suppressed.   This leads to suppression of the protesters opinion and thus if bad thriving underground as opposed to dying out in the open sunlight of an actual protest.

      The death of the counter protesters appears to be an accident caused by panic.  It appears the driver took a wrong turn and ended up among the protesters.  The protesters appears to assume it was someone attacking their counter protest and increased their yelling instead of opening up their ranks and leaving the driver through.   The driver is also at fault, instead of just waiting for cooler heads to prevail and leave him through, he panicked and hit the gas.

      Thus this was a horrible accident, it is the result of the protest, but not the intention of anyone involved.  Accidents happen all the time, the key is to minimise them when they occur. In a protest, the protesters have to make sure it is an attack on them not an accident.  People who run into a protest has to see it is a protest not an attack on them (go around the protest or wait for it to leave you through).

      Sorry, none of these deaths can be blamed on the protests, unless you believe the act of protesting is pathetic in and by itself.  We have to live with protests that we oppose for that is the only way to protect our own right to protest.

      These deaths are bad, but none appear to be caused by the protesters or counter protesters except for the fact both protests were occurring.  To blame either group for these deaths is to blame any deaths related to a protest as the result of that protest.   Such blame means all protests are bad and must be banned.  That is the same as banning free speech, free association and all of the other rights under the First Amendment.  Those rights must be protected even for people and ideas we hate so they exist when needed by people and ideas we like need them.  The protests did not cause these deaths, except in holding a protest and the right to hold a protest is never pathetic.

      • GloriaMundi (575 posts)
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        7. Awesome, man…

        …you say “someone who ran his car, by accident, into the counter protest”…

        Hardly an accident when you plow into a crowd at full speed, never slowing down.

        Just, wow.

        • happyslug (218 posts)
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          9. The reports I read said it was an accident

          Subsequent reports said the driver speeded up to ram the crowd. That is why he was charged with murder.

          The pro statute protesters claim to have nothing to do with the car attack.  There is no evidence he even attended the pro statute protests.  The attacker appears to see the counter protest and attack it on his own.

          Anyway, I was addressing the, RIGHT TO PROTEST, not the attack.  Neither protest turned violent except for this attack.  Thus neither protest were pathetic for they show what the protesters wanted.

          You can call the attack pathetic, but you can NOT call either protest pathetic just because someone attacked either of the protests.  We have the right to protest  and that right must be protected from people who would ban such protests because of attacks like this one.  This is NOT an attack from either protests but someone attacking one of the protests.  The protests were NOT pathetic even if the attack on one of them was.

          We have to be careful about attacks like this one, for such attacks are often cited as grounds to ban any and all protests.  Calling the protests pathetic is the first step to ban all protests, thus we have to protect our right to protest by protecting protests and protesters we detest.

          • Pacco Fransisco (3779 posts)
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            12. When an org is well known to be of hate and racism…

            any protesting by them should be banned IMO. There are and should be limits to speech …especially hate speech IMO.

            I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
            • Coldmountaintrail (989 posts)
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              17. problem is, who defines 'hate' and 'racism'? results may vary depending on

              who has power to define in the first place

              that’s why i am leery of your pov and more inclined to the disinfectant of light

              • Pacco Fransisco (3779 posts)
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                19. Hate in a crowd of haters is unseen.

                I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
      • boxcar joe (22 posts)
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        8. How can you possibly know anything that you said?

        Were you there?  Were you carrying a nazi flag?  How is it possible that you can so blithely excuse the death of a person and the injury to so many others based upon watching a tv set?  Every one of those people who you are defending would get into a mob (too chicken cowardly to do anything on their own–unless in a car, of course) and beat me into a pulp–murder me in cold blood–and then walk after a trial by a jury of their peers if they saw me burning an American flag.  But you–you–would be there defending their right to proudly wave a flag commemorating the deaths of tens of thousands of our countrymen and millions of innocents.  Wouldn’t you?

      • Deadpool (9251 posts)
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        10. …

        These deaths are bad, but none appear to be caused by the protesters or counter protesters except for the fact both protests were occurring.  To blame either group for these deaths is to blame any deaths related to a protest as the result of that protest. 

        One death was caused by a protestor…

        Here’s the driver from earlier that day:

        Edit: Just saw this comment from you…

        There is no evidence he even attended the pro statute protests.  The attacker appears to see the counter protest and attack it on his own.

        • happyslug (218 posts)
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          16. So he was at the protest.

          Does that make his actions part of the protest?  It appears to be independent  of the protest.  I have no problem with arresting some one who is protesting who also commits an act of violence, but his participation in the protest appears independent of his attack.  To say the protest should be banned because s protester later broke the law,  is a slippy slope to be on, if you value the right to protest.

          • Coldmountaintrail (989 posts)
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            18. he appears to be carrying a shield with one of the symbols of the right on it

            it sure looks like he was a participant

      • Pacco Fransisco (3779 posts)
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        11. Really? Wow

        Yea protect the right to protest but which protester should one protect? Both sides? There are limits IMO just like free speech does not mean you can falsely yell fire in a crowed room. I’m pretty sure if Japanese Americans protested our efforts during WW2 they would have quickly been deal with …and unfortunately they were interred with out them having being pro or not pro USA. Like wise the brown shirts in Germany regretfully had the right to protest. If we were at war with Nazi Germany today these protesting Nazi haters would be in prison. IMO when protesters are given the right to express hate or racism that right should be removed. While we are not a country of love we certainly should not allow it to be of hate. Powerless to stop the US military …it continues to inspire hate from other countries. Should we allow what is IMO improper rights to stand with hate?

        I am L0oniX  Fuck David and his pin head DLC 3rd way herd of goats
      • Major Hogwash (2492 posts)
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        15. No, most of these guys weren't even from Virginia.

        Most of the Nazis that appeared at this rally on Friday weren’t even from Virginia. They should have left Virginia after their little torchlight parade and Nazi rally was over. But, they didn’t get enough attention for acting like jackasses on Friday, so they continued on Saturday. As if somehow the statute in Charlottesville was going to validate their Nazi beliefs, if it were left in place. This rally was the 3rd one scheduled in Virginia by the white supremacist group located in North Carolina.

        No one has some fantasy right to go terrorizing around the country protesting whatever they don’t like taking place in other states. Since the majority of these “protestors” were openly giving Nazi salutes at Friday’s rally, it is obvious they didn’t respect anyone else’s rights. No one has the right to hold racist rallies in another state and give hate speeches at rallies.

        If someone shows up here in Idaho and wants to hold a torchlight parade, they would be turned down. Period. They would be met by the local police and fire department if they tried. The history of America has numerous incidents recorded of how riots broke out whenever young misguided white racist men wanted to walk around in the middle of the night with torches. Hate speech should be condemned, not encouraged.

  • Salemcourt (437 posts)
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    13. White nationalists or

    “Christian terrorists”

    • LiberalElite (5016 posts)
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      14. I'd go with "Christian terrorists" because "white nationalists" could lend them

      a kind of respectability and even nobility that is categorically inappropriate.

      P.S.:  I’d put quote marks around “Christian”, i.e., “Christian” terrorists.

      I feel much better since I've given up hope