Trump escalates fight against mail-in voting

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    • #318743
      ravensong
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      • Total Posts: 2,099

      The president has levied unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud dating back to the 2016 election and has continued to do so even though he was victorious. But he took his complaints a step further in threatening to withhold federal funding from Michigan and Nevada, two potential swing states, as they took different steps to allow residents to vote by mail.

      “To really vote, and without fraud, you have to go and you have to vote at the polling place,” Trump said Thursday at a Ford factory in Michigan, arguing that mail-in voting is “wrought with fraud and abuse.”
      ………

      Experts note there is minimal evidence of meaningful fraud in mail-in voting, and some see Trump’s latest round of attacks as an effort to restrict ballot access and preemptively cast suspicion on the 2020 election results should he lose.

      “It’s just a new variation on how he was calling into question the election results before the election happened and sowing distrust,” said Doug Heye, former Republican National Committee communications director. “You didn’t hear Republicans talking about mail-in ballots being a problem six months ago or four years ago.”

      https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/499269-trump-escalates-fight-against-mail-in-voting

       

      “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

      The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
      ~ Unknown

    • #318748
      leftcoast mountains
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      • Total Posts: 4,097

      choose to go to the polls when they could just vote from their home.

      #DestroyDems

      • #318782
        ArtfromArk
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        • Total Posts: 859

        I will say that my greatest concerns are 1) that my ballot will actually arrive at its destination, and 2) that it will be counted if it does arrive.

        • #318884
          FedUp
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 425

          And you actually have some legit reason to be concerned. My mom was 95 when the last election rolled around. She could no longer make it to the polling place, so I got her a vote by mail ballot. She filled it out. I completed the required info on the envelope including her name and address, put a stamp on it, and mailed it. Two days later it reappeared in her mailbox. Her name and address on the envelope confused the post office, which promptly returned it to her. At that point I hand carried it to the local city hall where there was a ballot box. No guarantee that it would be counted, but I hope so. I’m sure Vote by Mail is fine when it works. In this case, it didn’t.

    • #318752
      HassleCat
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      • Total Posts: 3,285

      It’s possible Trump is planning to hack electronic voting machines to give himself an advantage. This is difficult with vote-by-mail because there is a stack of paper ballots, and these can be checked and recounted by hand if funny business is suspected.

      • #318790
        Punxsutawney
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 1,546

        And it’s much harder to intimidate voters when all they have to do is put the ballot in the mail. Also, actions such as closing down polling places in minority districts, reducing the number of machines or using old ones all go out the window with mail-in voting.

         

        In America, “Liberty” means “Free to Die in Service of Capital” - Amfortas the hippie

      • #319161
        99th Monkey
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        • Total Posts: 203

         

        And that’s not even counting a whole panoply of  voter suppression dirty tricks in the GOP grab bag, such as spreading misinformation about the voting day and/or the location of polling places, GOP Sec.s of State dramatically shutting down most polling places in poorer more democratic areas, unreasonably long lines, lack of voting machines in poorer areas, etc. etc.

        What is totally striking about this is how elegantly and completely vote-by-mail puts an abrupt stop to virtually all of these dirty tricks, and how much it levels the playing field to restore a sense of dignity and equal access to the whole voting process and hence to democracy itself.   I absolutely LOVE voting by mail

        I live in Oregon and we’ve been voting by mail for decades, since 1981.  Oregon happens to be the very first vote-by-mail state. Here’s a brief history of same:

        https://multco.us/elections/brief-history-vote-mail-oregon

        You’ better believe Trump hates vote-by-mail “for all the right reasons” from his perspective that is.

    • #318754
      soryang
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      • Total Posts: 520

      Unless the voting procedures violate the equal protection clause, the Voting Rights Act, or some other provisions of federal law, there is no federal power to dictate their method. I don’t quite understand how the media report on a matter of crucial importance like this without a review of the applicable law and the authority or lack thereof for the president’s threatened actions.

      • #318758
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,099

        is doing or saying about an issue as critical to our democracy as our voting methods?  He’s the President of the United States.

        A better question to ask is “What is motivating Trump to say these things?”

        The answer to which can be found in the phrases in bold print highlighted in the excerpt in the OP at the top of the page.

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

    • #318774
      Populist Prole
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      • Total Posts: 432

      Could be he’s setting up for voter suppression in concert with another spike in COVID outbreaks, courtesy of jumping the gun on the re-opening of the country.

      You can guess how this would tend to suppress voting much much more in urban areas than red-state rural areas, percentage-wise. Gerrymandering with hammer and tongs.

    • #318781
      Pastiche
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 323

      The higher the voter turnout, the fewer Republicans get elected.

    • #318801
      Hobbit709
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      • Total Posts: 1,711

      Ban IOKIYAAR.

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

    • #318811
      soryang
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 520

      On July 12, 1974, while this case was pending in this Court, the Congressional Budget and Impoundment Control Act of 1974, Pub.L. 93-344, 88 Stat. 297, 31 U.S.C. § 1301 et seq. (1970 ed., Supp. IV), became effective. Title X of that Act imposes certain requirements on the President in postponing or withholding the use of authorized funds. If he determines that certain budget authority will not be required to carry out a particular program and is of the view that such authority should be rescinded, he must submit a special message to Congress explaining the basis therefor. For the rescission to be effective, Congress must approve it within 45 days. Should the President desire to withhold or delay the obligation or expenditure of budget authority, he must submit a similar special message to Congress. His recommendation may be rejected by either House adopting a resolution disapproving the proposed deferral.

      https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/420/35/#tab-opinion-1951220

      From Justice Douglas separate concurrence in Train v. City of New York, 420 U.S. 35 (1975). I read the relevant portions of Art 1, and Art II of the Constitution, and a couple of legal interpretations of the respective powers of the Congress and state legislatures with respect to presidential and congressional elections. Congress can issue laws affecting voting procedures. So can state legislatures. It is unlikely that Congress could or would pass any at this late stage to support what Trump is trying to pull off here. The president alone doesn’t have any such power.

      So in the absence of that power, he is threatening to impound, sequester or delay funding to the states who propose election measures he doesn’t want for partisan political reasons. This is an assumption of power not delegated by Congress to the president. Such an action appears to be without legal foundation ( ultra vires ), but it looks like the legal battles surrounding implementation of such threats could be complex and burdensome. This really has been trump’s strategy during his entire life, bring unfounded, unlawful, and costly actions to place a “dead horse” as it were on his adversaries. Such an action across the board of federal appropriations is in bad faith, and represents a dereliction in the duty to execute the laws of land and uphold the constitution. Is it something he discussed with legal advisors as to its practicability or is it just a bluff?

    • #318818
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,171

      There was the NC mail in ballot stuffing – by a Republican. There was the 2004 election, where W managed to win 10 states (not just Ohio) when exit polls said he’d lost. Not to mention 2000. But then there was Hillary “winning” the CA primary, by more voted in Detroit than votes cast, the popular vote, by a margin in electronic machine precincts in the primary that was described (by a professor of statistics) as only having a 1 in 160,000,000,000,000,000 chance of being legitimate.

      What is Trump doing? Is he planning something? Is he only seeing the threat du jour? Is he referring to a perceived threat and therefore sending a signal to the Democrats as to where the Republicans won’t be looking? Is it a trap? Election fraud is a rabbit hole – it is so common, so bipartisan, that we should be looking at it as an epidemic and not a crime.

      • #318960
        Enthusiast
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        • Total Posts: 4,255

        I am sick of the whole thing too. We could have free and fair elections.

        I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

        Me

    • #318885
      JonLP
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    • #318909
      sadoldgirl
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      • Total Posts: 784

      It does not make any difference what Trump wants.

      Elections are still in the hands of the states, and the purse

      is in the hand of the Congress. It is nice anti-Trump propaganda

      though. Voter rigging via e-voting machines or scanners as well

      as voter suppression are a different matter, which both parties

      use when and where in power.

    • #318959
      Enthusiast
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      • Total Posts: 4,255

      Worst president in the history of the United States.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

      • #319105
        doh1304
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,171

        There are many candidates for “worst president ever”. In chronological order (I could miss some) they are Adams, Jackson, Buchanan, Grant, Wilson, Coolidge, Hoover, Nixon, Reagan, Carter, Bush (2), Obama, and Trump.

        Disclaimer: My personal list is based on limited scholarship and therefore subject to subjective analysis. I almost always give Hoover, Carter and Grant passes, and usually place Reagan or Bush at the top. (bottom) Personally I find it hard to place Trump worst by any criteria, whether it be criminality or personal/institutional immorality, incompetence or even stochastic harm (though by definition the jury is still out on Trump for that – but it will be very hard for even him to overtake Reagan’s legacy)

        • #319193
          Enthusiast
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 4,255

          I judge Trump to be the worst based on the unnecessary loss of American lives based on his approach to the Corona Virus alone. I believe we should all unite in our loud condemnation of Trump.

          I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

          Me

    • #319316
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,171

      the loser is Bush, or perhaps LBJ. Unless you’re only counting American lives, then it’s Buchanan. But you could give Buchanan a pass (some do) in which case I suggest we count the rise in deaths from suicide, opioids, alcoholism, and domestic abuse caused by the Great Recession. Then it’s Obama. But then I could count the people who have died because Clinton sabotaged a national health in 1993. Trump is just not the most evil President, he’s not even the most intentionally evil. What he is is the most unabashedly evil.

    • #320378
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,631

      If they really want to go through the ritual of pulling a lever, putting it a box, etc, they can.

      If they want to mail it in, they can.

      I’ve been voting by mail since I moved to Washington 20+ years ago.  I really don’t mind licking a stamp and dropping it in a mailbox.

      The Republicans just want to cut the number of votes made by the commoners.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #320386
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,099

        and is far too reasonable and democratic in nature, to become law in the Idiocrat States of ‘murica.

        “The Republicans just want to cut the number of votes made by the commoners.”

         

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

        • #320393
          bazukhov
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,631

          having their IDs inspected, and take joy in placing their ballots in a box?

          I reckon the real true believers would pay their bills by insisting to be there and pay in cash no matter where the bill is to be paid.  Or, deliver Xmas cards in person.

          Maybe they could choose neither and spend voting days at home and practice pouting.

           

          Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #320424
      Cold Mountain Trail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,519

      the free speech of trump

      all for me, none for thee

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