Trump, frustrated by advisers, is not convinced the time is right to attack Iran
May 16, 2019 at 2:06 PM - Views: 91 #67246JonLPParticipant
- Total Posts: 2,331
This is the 2nd time this happened. The first time Trump was frustrated with Bolton was over Venezuela.
May 16, 2019 at 2:13 PM #67251MikeW285Participant
- Total Posts: 254
Good. Maybe Trump does have two brain cells to rub together after all. Here’s hoping he ends up firing chicken-hawk Bolton and/or Pompeo—like he’s done with every other cabinet member he’s gotten annoyed with.
May 16, 2019 at 4:15 PM #67326chknltlParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,048
I dunno, is it me or do Republican POTUS’s think it important to have a some “great evil abroad” to “protect our country from” in order to get re-elected?
(Well IMHO it worked well for the last idiot President at any rate-your choice regarding to which “idiot” I speak of but if you think about it, there was one who campaigned on war while the other campaigned against it but chose to continue on with the war anyway).
That aside, when I put my tin foil thinking cap on, is this the Deep State’s way to ensure that the next POTUS, (regardless of who he or she may be), has an excuse to continue, (or is forced to do their bidding), war in the Middle East that enrich Deep State parent corporations’ pockets.
Now I do not know exactly who the string pullers are within the Deep State but, how can there be an effective continuation of war in the Middle East without the muscles of the U.S. military?
Continuing down that rabbit hole with my tin foil hat firmly still in place, who then is the Deep State? They can not be the Democratic or Republican party, they must instead control those two parties in some fashion behind the scenes.
My guess: These are factions within the Worldwide Deep State.
Are these factions-these string pullers that keep our military in wars over in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia and Israel?
This begs the question: Are the Deep State a group of countries?
Upon further reflection, when it comes to what exactly this Deep State is, I do not see it as some sort of undercover “government of governments”.
I see it instead as groups of moneyed interests who take advantages of opportunities to keep cash inflow or cash increases by using the perfectly allowable system the U.S. has enplace.
In other words, if you have the cash, (and we are talking insane amounts of cash here), the U.S. government is open to do your bidding.
If you are an arms manufacturer, for the right fee, your projects will get Amerca’s tax dollars.
Need a bunch of bad guys to use those weapons on in order to make even more weapons? Step right up and let’s have a chat with the American Government.
Need a neighboring country to not devaluate your oil by selling their oil at a cheaper price? Give ol’ Uncle Sugar a little grease and the problem gets resolved.
So to me, the Deep State is not an actual group of folks or even governments, it is instead a system.
We have the system, those with the needs (and the cash), get to take advantage of the system.
I know this has strayed a bit off topic but that is what I am thinking. I think in order to stop all this senselesness, (and especially the war senselesness), we must change the system first.
Well that’s what I am thinking at any rate.
BTW, I use this in my arguments with my offline friends. Hopefully my online friends at JPR will assist me in either correcting or improving on my arguments. Thanks ahead of time.
May 16, 2019 at 4:32 PM #67332JonLPParticipant
- Total Posts: 2,331
I think the neocons are typically war hawks. They joined the Republicans because they didn’t like antiwar hippies or that is my understanding based on reading the history of the ideology.
I consider ‘deep state’s o be CIA, NSA, & other intelligence agencies. FBI Counterintelligence tends to treat things like a law enforcement matter but in the past as well as not so distant past they had operations like COINTELPRO. There is a lot to pour over when it comes to those groups.
I highly recommend this book Inside the Company by a Philip Agee with no redactions.
May 16, 2019 at 10:30 PM #67448
the neocons considered themselves JFK Dems–ironically for the same reason he’s also seen as a martyr for peace, because he wasn’t able to continue talking about policy until his natural death (well, hastened by Addison’s and uppers)
that let Vietnam fester and LBJ pick up the more hawkish advisors as “asskickers,” believing he needed to ramp up Vietnam War to save the Great Society by keeping Goldwater out!
every president since Truman (including every one of those after JFK) quickly came to regret the whole concept of the Cold War, because it restricted everyone into perpetuating its restricting assumptions; but each new president except Carter came in promising to renew the fight the incumbent dropped! the only way a president was “serious” (or even non-treasonable) was by agreeing that Russia had to be battled
Negroponte, Wolfowitz, Kristol, Kagan, Armitage, Eliot Cohen, and Max Boot meant it when they transferred to Hillary, that the Dems had finally dropped its irresponsibility towards the world, its idealism and isolationism that let people in Iran and Russia and Venezuela suffer so: now there wasn’t going to be an antiwar movement
to them the Cold War’s not some Straussian deception, the world of 1945 really is divided between countries where there’s freedom of election and freedom of enterprise, vs. the crematoria and mothers drowning their newborns with their breast milk: who could defend that? and there’s a strong Trotskyite/Orwellian streak in neoconservatism–against Hitler and Stalin equally, they’re both totalitarians so they can’t be tolerated in free society: it’s not any sort of paradox to exclude, snitch, and persecute them for their ideas, as the execrable Stanley Hook argued
it further plugs into the centuries-old self-image of America as a haven free from the bigots and aristocrats and tinpot meddlers of the Old World, and as eventually obliged to spread its benefits–that’s why all those New Atheists clambered aboard Dubya’s crusade, we were gonna rescue all the women and gays from Morocco to Irian Jaya! they were gonna have science again! Islamdom (however secular) was supposed to be the new USSR, a creative, insidious, WMD-seeking, and above all ideological existential threat
so it’s not about any one figure–Dulles, or Giancana, or North, or Singlaub–or any one criminal connection, or any one agency (many CIA agents don’t like these political cowboys and their destabilizing ideas) but the massive ideologically-charged space, protected by secrecy, protected by running the state and its policing systems, that’s the issue
and it’s not over, either: under Clinton the neocons plotted the PATRIOT Act and Iraq thinking they’d be cakewalks, they pushed SoS Clinton’s worst moves, and under Obama bent the CIA and Democratic Party to a Cold War 2.0–they weren’t just planning on hitting Syria, they saw it as a gateway to break Putin’s regime itself, just like their attempt to groom Deripaska if they couldn’t have Navalny
so we have a homegrown movement that defines itself against the public of its own country, that secretly reshapes the way the public thinks and the limits of acceptable political discussion, that restricts press and Presidents, that repeatedly seized the government, and that’s launched wars that have killed into the eight digits, and has endured seven decades running without the need for public support
May 16, 2019 at 6:13 PM #67358SatanParticipant
- Total Posts: 3,451
I know you never listen to the Devil, but since you enjoy firing your cabinet members so much, why haven’t you fired The Walrus yet?
As bad as every one of your cabinet picks has been, for any number of reasons, you literally could not do worse than John Bolton. Hell, even Michael Bolton would be an improvement (we love his music here in Hell. Works great for tormenting the Damned!)
Granted, given the history between Michael and your second wife, Marla Maples, that’s probably not a likely replacement….
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy
May 17, 2019 at 4:13 AM #67525algernonParticipant
- Total Posts: 539
He doesn’t fire them because he just hired them because he likes them, thinks like them, and can use them. For Trump’s purpose they’re an improvement on the last bunch. Who he ate for breakfast on live TV.
Yes, he has the mentality of little boy, but people forget that little boys often have fun destroying ant heaps, in every way a little boy might imagine, then walk away and forget they did it. One thing Donald expects 100% is that Donald will never pay. And I kinda agree. Why should he pay if nobody else of that station has had to, regardless their unforgivable crimes?
May 16, 2019 at 6:22 PM #67364EnthusiastParticipant
- Total Posts: 4,523
They should all begin to have doubts about a war with Iran.
First of all the American people know it would be another extremely expensive unnecessary war. Secondly they would likely have to start up the draft in order to get the necessary number of conscripts.
I think they are going to back off.
I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".
May 16, 2019 at 8:39 PM #67401beemerphillParticipant
- Total Posts: 94
chknltl, You may not have everything exactly right, but you have presented a theory that would explain a lot of what has happened in recent decades. Anyone who follows politics must realize that there are puppet masters pulling strings to make our politicians do their bidding. No sane country would have ever sent out troops to die for, and wasted so many billions of dollars on worthless countries as we do. Every time we enter into another war our leaders claim that it is necessary and will pay returns to the American taxpayer. And every time it has been a lie. If the truth were known many would be calling for the prosecution of these criminals at the controls. It will never happen, but it should.
May 17, 2019 at 2:22 AM #67511SorechasmParticipant
- Total Posts: 337
We should know by now, that nothing Trump says or is proported to say by his handlers is reliable. It means nothing that they are claiming he has a conscience about promises made during his campaign. He will contradict this statement tomorrow just for spite. Unless…he realizes that he has lost control of the Pentagon. They are refusing to attack Venezuela for good reason. Russian anti-aircraft installations, a failed stooge leader, a countryside of communes filled with American trained fighters loyal to Chavez’ legacy, and zero support from any other country:
Iran wouldn’t go much better. No one believes in the war mentality except for the mental warriors.
“Go and tell Alexander that God the Supreme King is never the Author of insolent wrong, but is the Creator of light, of peace, of life, of water, of the body of man and of souls;...what Alexander offers and the gifts he promises are things to me utterly useless;..." Dandamis, a great sannyasi of Taxila.Excerpt From: Yogananda, Paramahansa. “Autobiography of a Yogi.”
May 17, 2019 at 3:14 AM #67515
the Reagan WH had to content itself with penny-ante pseudo-covert ops and the Contras forcing villagers to step back from pharmacists and agrarian-extension workers to shoot them, since the Pentagon told them if the Marines landed it’d be Vietnam times 20, in a country one-fifth the size; unlike South Vietnam, there were no anti-Sandinista outfits or military units, and the guerrillas just kept going against the Contras with much bigger howitzers and planes than the Vietcong ever did–an evolution in guerrilla as well as counterguerrilla warfare: Ho promised a bayonet behind every blade of grass in Vietnam–in Nicaragua that would have been fulfilled
now multiply that by 50, backed by experience in combined arms, sophisticated sciences, strengthened regional allies in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, North Yemen, al-Hasa, a flood of Russian autonomous missiles, ethnic minorities who want nobody from Washington or Islamabad intervening in their relations with Tehran, a doctrine centered on flexibility and innovation that’d make General Riper proud, and a terrain that’s basically a slotted death trap, and that’s Iran
May 17, 2019 at 3:00 AM #67514chknltlParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,048
MistaP and beemerphil:
Thank you for the direct response.
I often think myself as one of the blind guys describing an elephant but i am the one who only grasps it’s tail. Unlike that guy, i am fairly sure that the elephant is not a snake…but without further evidence i am unable to describe the elephant further.
Deep down i intuitively feel that our capitalistic system is at the root cause of our urgent issues.
I feel that it is cancerous, that it has within the past few decades become so corrupt that it is now become a tool for the highest bidders to use for their purposes.
I can even picture it as a biological event that turned the host body into something akin to a zombie-a zombie that takes orders from others.
We The People do not appear to have control over our government. I do not think that the citizenry have enough unity to control it.
What unity our citizenry does have is heavily divided between the two major parties of supporters and they do not have the currency to get their needs met.
Those who are getting their needs met are the Corporatists and a few countries who control things we want like oil.
Speaking of oil.
I recently learned that the U.S. struck a deal with the devil, ie they made a deal with Saudi Arabia where they would support Saudi Arabia’s needs, sell them arms, and who knows what else in exchange for them requiring those who purchased their oil do so with U.S. dollars.
One would imagine that such a deal must have rankered many countries. One would also imagine that should Saudi Arabia at any point change it’s mind that the U.S. dollar could see a sudden and dramatic drop in value.
So when Venezuala under Hugo Chavez drove out the Oil companies stealing his country’s resources AND THEN chose to drop the Venezuelan oil’s ties to the American dollar our country went all out ballistic against Chavez.
Outside of sanctions there was little we could do at the time. BTW under Chavez, poverty dropped, life expectancy increased and life in general got better for the Venezuelan citizenry.
So when Libia tried the same-threatened to separate oil from the U.S. dollar the U.S. went the regime change route and Libia wound up with a new leader.
When Assaud in Syria threatened to do that as well we tried regime change again. Iran is making the same noises and guess what…yep…regime change.
Our deal with the devil is fraying badly around the edges. Even Saudi Arabia is making nice with Russia-the same Russia who is offering aid to Venuzuala.
Sorry for the lengthy rant, after wondering WTF was going on with these insane wars i did a little research and got lucky by discovering Kim Iverson’s “What Our Government Is Not Telling Us About Venuzuala” on YouTube and it all makes better sense to me now than what i was thinking earlier.
May 17, 2019 at 3:25 AM #67518
one of the big bennies of working in this underworld is the ability to make it big, and to conceal that: a mole buys a $500,000 house and a $50,000 Jag in cash, a legitimate officer of state just happens to make a few good investments
the last DCI to not die wealthy was Turner, after all
May 17, 2019 at 3:53 AM #67521Jan BoehmermanModerator
- Total Posts: 3,398
“Trump prefers a diplomatic approach to resolving tensions and wants to speak directly with Iran’s leaders.”
BS! He is playing “bad cop/good cop” aka “Mutt and Jeff”. It’s a tactic taken straight out of “the used car salesman’s handbook”.
May 17, 2019 at 4:19 AM #67526gordyflParticipant
- Total Posts: 943
I think Trump knows an attack on Iran would cause the stock market to drop and oil prices rise.
Besides, he now has less faith in his neo-con advisers since the Venezuela debacle.
May 17, 2019 at 4:23 AM #67527ArtfromArkParticipant
- Total Posts: 1,012
I think you overestimate Trump. The only thing Trump disagrees with Bolton about Venezuela is when to invade. Trump’s already violated international law by first expelling Venezuelan workers from the Venezuelan Embassy, then storming the Venezuelan Embassy to arrest activists who were there with the blessing of the legitimate Venezuelan government.
“There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.