Trump on Putin plan to recognize breakaway Ukraine regions: ‘This is genius’

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    • #472477
      jbnw
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      From https://thehill.com/policy/international/595373-trump-on-putin-plan-to-recognize-breakaway-ukraine-regions-this-is .

      Former President Trump on Tuesday called Russia’s recognition of two breakaway territories in eastern Ukraine a “genius” move ahead of its military invasion.

      In an interview on “The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show,” Trump said Russian President Vladimir Putin’s recognition of the Donetsk and Luhansk people’s republics in eastern Ukraine on Monday was “smart” and “pretty savvy.”

      “I went in yesterday, and there was a television screen, and I said, ‘This is genius,'” he said. “Putin declares a big portion of the Ukraine — of Ukraine — Putin declares it as independent. Oh, that’s wonderful.”

      “I said, ‘How smart is that?’ He’s going to go in and be a peacekeeper,” added Trump, who regularly praised and sought close ties with Putin during his time in office. “That’s the strongest peace force. We could use that on our southern border. That’s the strongest peace force I’ve ever seen. There were more army tanks than I’ve ever seen. They’re going to keep peace, all right.”

      Note that the invited peacekeeping force is called an invasion in the article.

    • #472479
      HassleCat
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      I think Trump may have wanted to do something similar along the US border with Mexico.

    • #472481
      Pam2
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    • #472492
      ozoneman
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      I do think that Putin will de-fang Ukraine to some extent, whether that will require a demilitarized zone, or simply annexing larger territory, to maintain Russian security.

      I’m sure the U.S. wouldn’t like it if Russia installed nukes in Cuba or Venezuela. Am I right?

      Regarding the Mexican/U.S. border, Trump has a good point! The Democrats will lose, partly over that issue.

    • #472514
      Earthartist
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      Putin did the right thing at the right time he saved lives and showed anyone who paid attention who the real bully is. Europe will pay a mighty price for being Americas tool.  They seem to forget it was Victoria Fuck the EU who started this with her puppet Joe and son.

      Earthartist

    • #472550
      rudycantfail
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      It’s about the U.S. manufacturing a pretext to sanction the shit out of Russia and cut them off from Europe and attempt to strangle their economy in the hope that Russians feel enough pain that an overthrow of Putin by the West is possible. Only then can the U.S. isolate, surround and stop upstart China from breaking the U.S. hegemonic stranglehold of the World.

      I don’t think it’ll work but the hard liner neocons (almost everyone with a say) will stop at nothing. From that perspective it’s the only play left and it will ruin this nation.

      • #472552
        jbnw
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        is Vladimir Putin. He named it as a major reason for recognizing the DPR and LPR with 800,000 civilians involved.

        Even Zelensky doesn’t mention his own (former) citizens in Donbass.

        • #472554
          rudycantfail
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          on the global chessboard. Just because Putin’s doing it doesn’t mean the U.S. isn’t. U.S. intervention is always justified to save “the people”.

          • #472581
            jbnw
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            It wasn’t the action in Ukraine. No US President pushed for Minsk, and Joey armed one side of the civil war he started.

            • #472655
              rudycantfail
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              Is there something in my original point below that you disagree with or the entire thing?

              It’s about the U.S. manufacturing a pretext to sanction the shit out of Russia and cut them off from Europe and attempt to strangle their economy in the hope that Russians feel enough pain that an overthrow of Putin by the West is possible. Only then can the U.S. isolate, surround and stop upstart China from breaking the U.S. hegemonic stranglehold of the World.

               

              • #472657
                jbnw
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                I don’t know what the US is planning for the whole world, but I do see the difference between what the US says and what the US does.

                For China, well, it’s where I depend on our Asian experts like @soryang to weigh in.

                As for Russian sanctions, I was in Russia before and after Obama’s sanctions. The US just taught Russia the need to be independent and prepared them for future sanctions.

                I have a friend who was working for a lighting company. After the sanctions, they had to find an internal supplier, hurting their previous EU supplier as much as it hurt the Moscow company.

                • #472660
                  rudycantfail
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                  I think these new sanctions against Russia are going to be much harsher than before. As harsh as possible, really.  The economic warfare already imposed also includes asset seizures and cutting Russia off from bank credit in the West. The U.S. is all in to break Russia over an international incident that the U.S. engineered to do just that. As I said originally, I don’t think the new harsh sanctions -> Russian pain -> instability -> Putin’s ouster in favor of a new Yeltsin plan will work but it’s clear to me that is the intent.

                  I don’t think you have to be a China or Asia expert to understand that the U.S. national security state views China as the great threat to their hegemony. It’s really about understanding U.S. motivations and behaviors more than it is China’s imo

                  • #472662
                    jbnw
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                    Russia has the resources that Europe depends on – gas and other natural resources. It also has something like $600 billion in reserves, and the US has a $30 trillion dollar debt.

                    And much of that US debt is held in China, if I remember correctly —

                    It depends on how Russia responds. I saw Russia after the first sanctions – stores with non-essential items were very empty of people. A few years later, with the same sanctions in place, it all looked normal.

                    It depends on how Russia responds.

                  • #472679
                    Earthartist
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                    Well the sanctions maybe harsh but they finally may go both ways. We are the 2nd largest buyer of Russian oil, we also get rocket and Plane parts from Russia. Our farmers need potash from Russia. Europe will basically freeze to death without Russia oil and potash coal and other assorted minerals, parts and food. Russia on the other hand has several countries who. Will be happy to pickup the unsold pieces from the US. 2, the Russian trade deficit is nothing compared to the US.

                    Russia new all of this going in and were prepared for the sanctions from hell

                    Earthartist

                  • #472680
                    soryang
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                    …the stronger China gets in relative terms. There is no “grand plan” among the neocons, or anyone else in DC. Most of them fight for their own turf. I don’t think anyone is going to “break Russia,” either. The US tries to foment tension wherever its seems to have potential and then as opportunists play it by ear. They manufacture the rationale for their next move as they go along. A lot of their schemes go nowhere except for their overall, neomercantilist scheme to protect their faltering trade positions.

                    The more resources are tied up in Europe, more freedom of action arises in the Far East and vice versa. The US is suffering from grandiose illusions at this point about what it can accomplish, and the cost to itself and its allies. The US footprint has reached its highwater mark and is receding. I don’t think its possible to contain Chinese influence at this point and a containment strategy of Russia and China is going to be very costly to the US. They can try to do it with Azov battalions and astroturfed uprisings in peripheral states of Asia, but everyone is onto the scheme at this point.

                    惑世誣民 혹세무민

      • #472558
        closeupready
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        The Biden administration balked at providing free COVID testing kits, it has done ZILCH on bringing a public option to fruition, he reneged on his promise to forgive $10,000 in student loan debt for American debtors …

        For me, those facts (and others) serve as indicators as to how little he, his administration and Democrats care about Americans and their quality of life.

        So no, Ukrainians likely know full well this is not about freedom or democracy for Ukrainians. LOL Give me a break. It’s about defense contractors getting US taxpayer cash.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

        • #472565
          rudycantfail
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          neither the opinions nor the well being of the people of that country are considered. The opinion of the U.S. public does matter however and that is why propaganda and narrative control is so important to the national security state.

          Defense contractors and war profiteers play a big role in keeping the war machine churning but there’s a geo-strategic element that is downplayed. The strategies and plans to maintain global U.S. hegemony are paramount.

          • #472566
            closeupready
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            people in DC don’t care about public opinion. For example, universal health care is supported by a supermajority of Americans, and even a majority of Republicans. Yet, “it can’t be done”, “it’s a better idea that will NEVER EVER EVER come to pass.” Biden won’t even work on the meager public option which he promised to voters (during the campaign), that he’d get it done during his first year in office.

            But for the sake of this argument, let’s agree I’m wrong, and public opinion does, in fact, matter. Why does it matter? How would unfavorable public opinion actually work to thwart military adventurism?

            The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

            • #472590
              Ohio Barbarian
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              • Total Posts: 25,301

              He just sent in troops anyway, and Congress didn’t even squeak.

              Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

              The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

            • #472597
              rudycantfail
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              I’ve had three replies to my original point about U.S. geo strategy and they all seem to want to go down a tangent that’s unrelated to my original point.

              But to answer your question, U.S. public opinion matters wrt to war because it is dangerous for the establishment if public opinion turns against the government on war. Nixon and Kissenger scared shitless gazing out a White House window in 1970 after ordering a gigantic troop call up,  surrounded by a hoard of livid young people with only a ring of school buses and 5,000 DC police between them comes to mind. You might say, well that was only because of the draft and that’s over now so it’s a moot point. I’d counter that by saying it’s one of the reasons they did away with the draft. It pisses lots of people off and that’s a very dangerous thing.

              The last thing the national security state wants, especially now, is a genuine insurrection, not an FBI instigated one like 1/6, that’s based on a critical mass of the public finally figuring out the scam, or as Smedley Butler called it, a racket. This is where the necessity of propaganda and narrative control and red bating and intimidation come in.

              Propaganda keeps enough people ignorant that military spending is bankrupting the country and the reason we can’t have nice things like universal health care, free college, good infrastructure, ending homelessness, reducing poverty and increasing financial opportunity which in turn reduces crime, mass incarceration, drug use and suicide etc. in the richest country in the world.

              Propaganda and narrative control tells people that the massacres by their military is necessary for freedom and democracy and whatever bullshit and for the well being of country being destroyed. It covers up the pain inflicted on members of the military and their loved ones.

              It also reassures people there’s a really good reason why our leaders are risking nuclear annihilation.

              There’s a whole host of other reasons. There’s the fact that both establishment parties or uniparty is already in a precarious state and is hemorrhaging members and that more people than ever are looking to independent media for the truth because they don’t trust establishment media.

              It’s critical from the national security state perspective that the public continues to trust the so-called democratic institutions controlled by the establishment and doesn’t start to figure things out, get organized and go rogue.

              I hope that answers your question.

              • #472599
                closeupready
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                This actually was a terrific explanation, and I realize you put some time into it. I appreciate it. 🙂 @rudycantfail

                The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

              • #472681
                Earthartist
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                Truth! Rudycantfeil   Propaganda.  I left 350. ORG because they refused to talk about the pentagon THE LARGEST POLLUTER in the world!  So then I started a group called planet VS pentagon I walked out the day the group told me that the Russians are dangerous!  The Chinese were committing genocide!  Do you think these people are serious?  Propaganda against Russia from WW2 on.  Think of all those 007 movies with the bad Russians.

                Earthartist

    • #472555
      Gryneos
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      had to add this modifier to the quote-sentence: “ahead of its military invasion.”

      Speaking of tools…

      The people-to-cake ratio is too high.

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