Tulsi May Get the Last Laugh…

Homepage | Forums | Main Forums | General Discussion | Tulsi May Get the Last Laugh…

Viewing 15 reply threads
  • Author
    Posts
    • #241502
      game meat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,242

      …in the long run.

      Tulsi voting ‘present’ is seen as an act of cowardice and impotent grandstanding by resiters, and impeachment enthusiasts in general. No one can read her mind, but even if she voted how she did just for the sake of making a spectacle or being contrarian, if the consequences of her vote lead to her getting blackballed further by the party and destroying her political future, and she did it anyway, then it was certainly a courageous action.

      Arguably, Sanders has better policies on most issues, but she is more aggressive in this regard. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it has its place.

      But there’s no guarantee that it will turn out that way for Tulsi in the end. Her vote would not have changed the results, so this was obviously a calculated move on her part. If this all ends in tragedy for the Democrats in 2020 and the party implodes, she can shrug her shoulders and say, “I told you so,” and look like the lone voice of reason in hindsight.

      The Democrats are in a transitional period. It’s not yet certain what the dems will transition into exactly, especially if they succeed in stopping Sanders, but Tulsi may be betting on being an integral part in creating whatever that is. By not going along to get along, and making a point of distancing herself from Democrat orthodoxy, not just on this one issue, but the way she’s conducted herself in general over the last few years, she may be taking a deliberate high risk/high reward gamble, betting on the future rather than the present.

      The neolibs have ruled since the 1980s and are circling the drain, trapped in the inertia of group think and cannibalizing themselves over identity politics. There’s a certain symbolism to the weak and feeble Biden being their current frontrunner. His campaign, bold and inspirational only in its dedication to not being so, is a microcosm of the state of the dem establishment as a whole. Why not distance yourself from this embarrassment, not just Biden, but the whole current version of the party as a whole?

      Trump’s impeachment is just a cheap sugar high. Once it wears off, it will be obvious what a useless endeavor it really was. Impeachment is not holding Trump accountable in any practical way, nor will it set a precedent to prevent further corruption or abuses of power since those things are bipartisan affairs. This is all just the hounds of the resistance finally catching the bus they’ve been trained to chase.

      We’re at the beginning of the end of this particular diversion, and something else will take its place. Trump’s agenda moves on the same as it did before that ‘historic day,’ and the Democrats will forget about all that resisting when it counts, just like when they voted to extend the Patriot Act, giving Trump all the powers that entails, all the while making impassioned declarations in public about him being a threat to national security. Nothing has changed.

      Once the Senate acquits Trump, that’s all the average person is going to remember. Trump can then go around saying he was cleared of all wrong doing and, for perhaps the first time in his life, he won’t have to lie.

      Everyone knew this was a political risk for the Democrats. They bet everything on independents and swing voters turning on Trump after the televised hearings brought the evidence to their attention. In other words, it was the same strategy as Russiagate betting it all on Mueller. If the first time you charge head first into a brick wall, just get up and do it again.

      Not only was there not a mass exodus from Trump, but the very states and voters the Democrats need to win back are not showing any real longing to come back to them. The polls are neck and neck in those states, usually favoring Trump moderately. The fall of the so called ‘blue wall’ in 2016 may have been the start of a genuine political realignment, rather than  the anomaly many assumed it to be.

      And then what?

    • #241506
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,032

      Tulsi did what she thought best.I would have done the same.I support Tulsi.

    • #241508
      elias39
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,775

      I support Tulsi’s vote too.

    • #241512
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,695

      There’s a lot of “maybe”, “could”, and “should” in the article.

      Can she win the nomination?

      She was grandstanding, which all politicians do, but even the author of the article admits it had no effect on the outcome.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #241554
        game meat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,242

        It’s unlikely she’ll get the nomination, and I suspect she knows that. She’s young enough to play the long game.

        The tl;dr of what I am saying here is if the impeachment fiasco blows up in the face of the Democrats in a major way, she will be in a good position.

        She may have been grandstanding or she may have been sincere. It may also have been a combination of the two, which is what I suspect since her vote was not something out of character. But we can not read her mind.

    • #241515
      Snort McDork
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,779

      She still may be Bernie’s VP pick.

      I'm Snort McDork and I approved this message.

      "I like birdy num-nums"

    • #241518
      lownslow
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 471

      I support Tulsi on this. Her explanation was spot on. Impeach trump, obama, clinton and bush on war crimes😈😈😈

    • #241520
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,102

      Looks like the DNC is still going for the “vote for the blue no matter who” route.  Because it worked so well last time.  Actually, depending on their strategy of voting with the GOP, that may have been a success.

    • #241523
      retired liberal
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,716

      @gamemeat

      “Trump’s impeachment is just a cheap sugar high”

      The best description I have read so far.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.
      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.
      Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…
      Always wear a proper mask when out and about. The life you save could be both yours and mine.

    • #241603
      doh1304
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,207

      Tulsi has no future in the Democratic Party. Her only hope is if the Democrats go the way of the Whigs and so she is positioning herself to be the one to follow in Bernie’s footsteps when (if) a new party rises out of the rubble of the neolib empire.

    • #241605
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,581

      Impeaching Bill Clinton did not work out well for Republicans. I’m not sure why Democrats thought it was a good idea. Doesn’t matter if it’s for a blow job or an actual crime.

      • #241658
        mrdmk
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,869

        The impeachment of Bill Clinton did not kill the Republicans either:

        Year 2000 Nation Election Results

        George W. Bush (R) President (Stolen)

        Senate was 54 Republicans 46 Democrats, after the election 50 Republicans 50 Democrats

        House was 223 Republicans 211 Democrats, after the election 221 Republicans 212 Democrats

        Yes the Republicans got dinged, but that was about it. In 2002 the Republicans gained seats:

        Year 2002 Nation Election Results

        Senate was 50 Republicans 50 Democrats, after the election 51 Republicans 48 Democrats

        House was 221 Republicans 212 Democrats, after the election 229 Republicans 205 Democrats

        Of course, 6 years later the Republicans were in charge when the Nation was literately blown-up from within.

        And for good measure, here are the results to the 2004 election. The Republicans once again pick-up some seats:

        Year 2004 Nation Election Results

        George W. Bush (R) President (Stolen)

        Senate was 51 Republicans 48 Democrats, after the election 55 Republicans 44 Democrats

        House was 229 Republicans 205 Democrats, after the election 232 Republicans 202 Democrats

        Granted there was a whole bunch of election fraud going on with the new voting machines and other shanagans. But in truth, the Republicans never lost power until 2006.

        LINK — Year 2000 Senate and House

        LINK — Year 2002 Senate and House

        LINK — Year 2004 Senate and House


        @hasslecat

        If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

    • #241616
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,150

      A “NO vote….  Tulsi would have been accused of being a Republican.

      A “YES” vote….. Tulsi would be partially responsible for the impeachment fiasco and the re-election of Trump.

      A “PRESENT” vote means she that saw the train wreck coming and decided not to participate in it.

    • #241670
      RufusTFirefly
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,329

      In retrospect, Tulsi may turn out to be the Barbara Lee of this botched impeachment.

      Just to be clear: I fully support impeaching perhaps the most impeachable president in our nation’s history. Yet I could not have imagined what an utter cockup the Democrats would make of the whole process.

      Too late. Too narrow. Too partisan.

    • #241677
      Jan Boehmerman
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,150

      I’m sure the Senate will vote overwhelmingly for impeachment as soon as Pelosi passes it on to them!

    • #241684
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,399

      I guess there’s a long shot chance that Pelosi off the record concedes the possibility that she won’t send the articles to the Senate anytime soon. And then a bit later a vote for censure happens.

      That would be amazeballs. Even if that vote just happened, nearly as if an orphan, that would still represent a feather in Tulsi’s cap. Bernie is on a roll and the last thing that the movement he leads is for the next debate to have “Impeachment???” as the Yooge, Gassy, Elephant in the Room.

      And needles to say if a trial becomes scheduled for a week or two after the debate then that makes the Elephant a Tyrannosaurus. And if it gets scheduled two to three weeks before a debate then that means Sanders would have to break camp and return to Washington.

      There’s also a long shot chance that impeachment becomes notably less popular with voters, and polling shows that the swing voters in the swing states decidedly would rather have seen either no impeachment or anything else, or at most just a censure. Bernie would stick to his implied promise to convict, and that won’t be good for how he polls in swing states.

      What the heck, a light just went on. Biden and Buttigieg don’t have to vote, and after the trial they might benefit from pissed off moderate Independents deserting Bernie, Warren, and Klobuchar. And maybe this has been part of the Impeachment considerations all along. To make Biden poll better in swing states, and thus look more electable.

      • #242127
        game meat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,242

        @babel17

        Your last paragraph is an interesting possibility. Since the Democrats knew impeachment was unlikely to be a big winner, it could all be about forcing Sanders to have the impeachment albatross around his neck with Warren and Klobucher being sacrificial lambs in the effort to stop Bernie. This then allows Biden and Buttigeig to adopt whatever position is politically expedient when the time comes.

        Idk, though, I tend to go back and forth: sometimes seeing the dems as incompetent fools, and other times seeing them as a malignant, but highly capable force.

    • #241694
      Hobbit709
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,804

      I said from the beginning that it was a dog and pony show put on by Pelosi and the DNC.

      They were just posturing to give them another point for fundraising from the rubes.

      The emoluments clause in the Constitution is spelled out in black and white so they went with what was basically a bunch of hearsay instead.

      Of course Pelosi would never open the door on actual corruption since then the light would shine on her and her cohorts too.

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

      • #242027
        xyzse
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,507

        @hobbit709 That is my take as well.

        Thing is, the 2nd article of impeachment I find dangerous and can be used against any President, where it becomes an impeachable offense if they decide to stick it to Congress and not provide them with their demands on investigation and telling to bring them to court.  That is dumb as hell.

      • #242174
        Babel 17
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,399

        I used to have as a signature the following, which applies here:

        “Politicians are like cannibals. They might criticize each other’s table manners, but nobody is proposing vegetarianism.”

        lol

         

         

    • #241939
      Piperay
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 225

      Cheers to Tulsi, she did the right thing and showed courage against  the mob!

Viewing 15 reply threads
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.