Turkish army pushes into Syria, people flee as air strikes, artillery hit border town

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  • #179719

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    AKCAKALE, Turkey (Reuters) – Turkey launched a military operation against Kurdish fighters in northeast Syria on Wednesday just days after U.S. troops pulled back from the area, with air strikes and artillery hitting YPG militia positions around the border town of Ras al Ain.

    Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, announcing the start of the action, said the aim was to eliminate what he called a “terror corridor” on Turkey’s southern border.

    Turkey had been poised to enter northeast Syria since U.S. troops, who had been fighting with the Kurds against Islamic State, started to leave the area in an abrupt policy shift by U.S. President Donald Trump. The withdrawal was widely criticized in Washington as a betrayal of America’s Kurdish allies.

    A Turkish security source told Reuters the military operation into Syria had begun with air strikes.

    Full story here.

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #179727

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    Here’s an AFP map of Syria some of you might find useful. I know I do:

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #179803

    David the Gnome
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    @davidthegnome

    Some have said that this is a place we should never have gone to.  They are right.  Some have said that this was not our fight – and for ordinary people, they were right.

    What we have, however, are the results of a long civil war instigated by our own Country.  That is what unleashed the madness and chaos in Syria.  Both political parties attempted to use the tension in the area for their own agenda.  They finally went so far as to send in troops and gain the military aid of the Kurds, who have done a lot of the fighting and most of the dying in this conflict.

    Whatever business Turkey has with the Kurds on their own territory is their business.  This, however, is Syrian territory, held by Kurds and so called freedom fighters that the American government helped fund and arm.

    As this situation worsens – and it will, perhaps we might ask ourselves at what point any decent or wise decision was made.  It is clear now, that the word of those who govern us cannot be trusted.  It is also clear, that now we cannot be relied upon as allies, not even in extreme circumstances.

    Among the many things that, some decades ago, brought down the Nazi regime… is that they could not be trusted.  Hitler betrayed his alliance with Russia, without this fact, history and the modern age might both be very different.

    Much of Europe had suffered great loss, before the US engaged in war – and that was to protect and avenge our own.  Russia and England burned long before, bombing raids, endless slaughter, hunger- and worse, with no real end in sight.  The Russians especially died in their millions… and the US did nothing.

    Similar to now, people said it wasnt our business, that we did not want and could not afford another war.  The difference this time is that no war was, or is necessary to stop Erdogan’s advance.

    It only needs to be made clear that we will stand by our allies.  Apparently though, we will not.

    This slaughter us on us, too.  Because, according to Trump, it would have cost too much to stop.

    How long before we betray other, older alliances?  How long before the world comes to see us as the new Nazi regime?  Those who demonstrate no honor, faith or loyalty, welcome more of the same.

    So, we too, will likely be betrayed.  Perhaps even by Erdogan.  The Kurds are too late, we have already betrayed them… but Erdogan is not the type to just stop.

    I fear this will become unbelievably ugly.  It could have been stopped.  Those who died with our force will now be killed by another, while America turns away and the UN writes some strongly worded letters.

    Some times I think that there may be no point left in believing in archaic notions like honor and loyalty.  Perhaps the world has abandoned them – our governments certainly have.

    Just remember…. the children of those betrayed will one day become adults – and they will not forget.

    • #179815

      Ohio Barbarian
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      • Total Posts: 6,326
      @ohiobarbarian

      @davidthegnome You make some good points. I do think we should entirely withdraw from southwestern Asia and other places. I also think the precipitous way Trump ordered this withdrawal was incredibly stupid, but that’s no surprise because he is a stupid man. Erdogan probably promised him a hotel in Istanbul or something; that wouldn’t surprise me.

      The Turks will only go so far, though. They won’t risk tangling with the Russians or the Assad regime for obvious reasons. Those two won’t mind seeing the Kurds weakened, either, nor will the Iranians, no matter what they say.

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #179819

    game meat
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    @gamemeat

    The US insists on dipping its nuts in the punch bowl of other countries, and then expects people to believe they can remove them at some point without impacting the taste.

    Of course it’s not the right time to leave. That’s what they always say. The problem is is the right time never comes; the circumstances are never going to be ideal. At some point enough should be enough. Then again, I’m the sort of person who thinks the last conflict we actually needed to get involved in was WW2.

     

     

     

  • #179900

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    @gamemeat I have slowly adopted that attitude myself. The only possible exceptions I can think of are Korea in 1950 and Kosovo in the 1990s; the former because that was a UN intervention and the latter because the Europeans requested assistance in Europe, and a genocide really was going on. OTOH, I can understand the argument against intervention by the US in the former Yugoslavia.

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #180086

    3fingerbrown
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    @donaldtuohy

    So if Turkey is a NATO member then isn’t this an attack by NATO? One for all and all for one, right?

    All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

    • #180269

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      @donaldtuohy No. NATO is a defensive pact. Other NATO members are only required by the treaty to come to the aid of another member if they are attacked. There is no obligation for a NATO nation to come to the aid of another that has started a war. The last time the the NATO treaty was invoked was in September, 2001.

      The favorite conservative whipping country, France, invoked the treaty on behalf of the United States after 9/11. That’s why there were Norwegian, French, Danish, Dutch, and German forces in Afghanistan for a time.

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #180480

    3fingerbrown
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    @donaldtuohy

    @Ohio Barbarian. Thanks OB. Wasn’t quite sure about what NATO countries can and can’t do within this pact since these days NATO seems more offensive (see Libya) than defensive (no more Warsaw Pact) , particularly if one of the members is neither north or atlantic, lol

    All governments lie to their citizen's, but only Americans believe theirs.

  • #180830

    peacecorps
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    @peacecorps

    Bernie’s take:

    Sen. Bernie Sanders issued a statement late Wednesday condemning U.S. President Donald Trump’s decision to abandon Kurdish forces and pave the way for Turkey’s military assault.

    “I strongly condemn Trump’s reckless decision to abandon our Kurdish allies to their fate at the hands of Turkish President Erdoğan,” said Sanders, a 2020 Democratic presidential candidate. “This is not a case of sending American troops there. They are already there and Trump is withdrawing them, giving the Turkish army permission to invade.”

    Sanders said the U.S. president “should not make significant national security decisions impulsively, by tweets after a single phone call,” and urged Congress to assert its constitutional authority over foreign policy.

    “Kurdish fighters have fought and died in our joint effort to eliminate ISIS,” said the Vermont senator. “They should not be abandoned in this way. Congress must assert its important responsibility over foreign policy and serve as a check on our unstable president.”

    https://www.commondreams.org/news/2019/10/10/amid-reports-civilian-deaths-sanders-condemns-trump-giving-turkish-army-permission

    As in the case of Yemen, in which our MIC makes bundles selling arms to Saudi Arabia which uses them to kill Yemeni civilians, with Turkey Trump and the MIC must think that Turkey will buy more arms from us to kill Kurdish civilians. More profits for the MIC without American body bags that might endanger future profits.

    National problems (slavery/racism, income inequality, pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war) are not solved with more national sovereignty.

    A CEO, an American worker and an immigrant sit at a table with a dozen cookies in front of them. The CEO grabs 11 of them, then leans over and warns the worker, "Watch out for the immigrant. He is trying to get your cookie."

    • #180892

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      @peacecorps Bernie did accurately sum up the current facts. Our troops have been there illegally since Obama sent them there without congressional authorization. Trump made noises about pulling them out in 2017 but he never did, then does pull them out after one phone call from the Turkish president knowing full well not realizing, because he really is a stupid idiot, that the Turks would do everything they could to crush the Kurds and expel Syrian refugees on Turkish soil.

      Of course, the Kurds would never have been fighting ISIS in the first place had George W. Bush, Inc, not lied their way into the invasion and conquest of Iraq, and then compounded the error by prohibiting former Hussein regime officials and soldiers from having jobs in the new puppet government. Those people are the ones who formed the first corps of ISIS, because they were unnecessarily made desperate by a previous, stupid American regime.

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

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