Ukrainian armed forces may be starting to surrender at high rates

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    • #492681
      jbnw
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      • Total Posts: 9,573

      LUGANSK, June 23. /TASS/. The militia forces of the Lugansk People’s Republic (LPR) have repeatedly registered instances of the surrender of Ukrainian territorial defense troops who are brought to the frontline without weapons and food, LPR Assistant Interior Minister Vitaly Kiselyov told TASS on Thursday.

      “There are numerous instances of the surrender of territorial defense militants after they are brought to the frontline without weapons, foodstuffs and clothes. They surrender in order to survive,” he said.

      Over the past few days, the allied forces of the LPR people’s militia and the Russian army have been moving ahead in their advance south of Lisichansk to trap the Ukrainian military in that city and at the Azot chemical plant in Severodonetsk. According to a source close to the LPR people’s militia, militants from the Ukrainian Neo-Nazi Aidar battalion holed up in the Azot chemical plant in Severodonetsk are expected to start surrendering en masse by the evening.

      It’s from TASS, a major Russian news source.

      https://tass.com/world/1470521

    • #492687
      HassleCat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 9,177

      Volunteers from other countries have commented on the Ukrainian forces. They lack training, communication, leadership, experience and just about everything else they need to oppose the Russians. Everybody agrees they are brave and stubborn, but that only goes so far.

      • #492768
        chknltl
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,838

        On the other hand, according to Scott Ritter, the Ukranian forces were well trained by NATO prior to the Russian invasion.

        These Ukranian forces he refers to were well trained to integrate with NATO forces, just as other European forces were.

        That said, also according to Scott Ritter, the U.S. is sending in armaments that the current Ukranian forces are uneducated in operating.

        From my point of view, these may be two separate and conttradictory analysis from the same man.

        Either they know how to fight with the weapons we send them or not, I have no answer.

        Also according to Scott Ritter, the Russians have basically divided the Ukranian forces from their leadership.

        Again, I do not know how much of that is true.

        Perhaps those “volunteers” are Ukranian conscripts in which case it makes sense that they are untrained in using our modern armaments.

        If this is the case, I understand why these “volunteers” would choose surrender over….well death.

        • #492770
          jbnw
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          • Total Posts: 9,573

          There’s no way for us to know how many of those remain. I’ve heard 70,000 Ukrainian soldiers killed, and Scott gave them credit for their professionalism – but I don’t recall that on recent interviews with the remaining army.

          But it’s exactly that – no way to tell, and there’s less and less information recently, so I really wonder what’s happening, and when/if we’ll know.

          All I do know for certain is that the US keeps sending armaments, some percentage of which makes it to the Ukrainian army. But there’s also no way to tell what that percentage is either.

          • #492781
            chknltl
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,838

            Redacted is a non-partisan news show on YouTube.

            They say that without a great deal of training, an operator of many of our U,S. munitions will find things difficult at best.

            This rings true to me as an ex-tank turret mechanic. It took my class two months of training prior to being sent out to our units and even then we were rookies.

            If those NATO trained Ukrainian forces have been depleted, no amount of our modern war tech will do the newer volunteers or conscripts much good.

            I have also seen, on Redacted, the ridiculous list of military hardware Zelensky has requested. The list includes a lot of tanks.

            From personal experience, a tank crew requires gobs of training and even then tanks break down OFTEN!!! Someone has to fix them before they can return to the field.

            I suspect the same can be said for most of the larger armaments Zelensky is asking for.

            Also on Redacted I saw items that the U.S. has sent over winding up on the black market.

            The example which alarmingly stood out to me was a shoulder fired anti-aircraft missile system for the paltry sum of $30,000!!!

            Imagine if a terrorist group gets ahold of a few of those and starts downing comercial airliners.

            I can easily see a Ukranian commander padding his wallet by selling such military hardware to the black market.

            Furthermore, from what I understand, Zelensky is emptying his prisons of those criminals willing to serve with the Ukranian military.

            I doubt those folks would have any issues with selling anything they can get their hands on into the black market as well.

            • #492785
              jbnw
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 9,573

              But no way for us to confirm and I suspect it’s unlikely we will ever be permitted to know much of the truth from Western sources. One reason I like Telegram –

    • #492736
      Babel 17
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 6,786

      They could be in fear of the Neo-Nazi loyalty enforcers, and when given a no ifs or buts schedule to meet a quota of troops shipped, they comply.

      Zelenskyy should get ready for his close-up, because this deteriorating situation is putting him nearer and nearer to having his Der Untergang moment, one where he’s counting on “Steiner” to counter attack, and his commanders are being sent children to bolster their ranks.

       

      Don't Kill the Whale
      Don't feed the trolls

      • #492742
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 24,999

        One of the best Eastern Front movies ever, IMHO.

        Never let your morals stop you from doing the right thing.--Isaac Asimov

        The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them.--Julius Nyerere

        • #492780
          Babel 17
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 6,786

          Near the end, when James Coburn tells Schell he can take him to where the Iron Crosses grow, that was pretty intense.

          Edited: I’d confused Schell with von Sydow.

          Just so nobody gets confused though, I was referring to the other famous Steiner, whose name features so prominently in Downfall/Der Untergang parodies.

          I just saw this clip, and wow, the Russian military sure does like to use “Cauldrons” whenever they have the opportunity to implement them.

          Don't Kill the Whale
          Don't feed the trolls

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