War in Ukraine

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    • #414707
      Earthartist
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      The US puppet state has started the the war in Ukraines Russia provinces.  Read through the the discussion. Hope this does not get out of control Blinkin and Biden to to be held to account for war crimes.   https://thesaker.is/drums-of-war-in-the-ukraine-open-thread/

      Earthartist

    • #414711
      soryang
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      Ukraine isn’t a member. Having preexisting border and territorial disputes with a neighbor is a factor which should preclude intervention. I guess individual states can do whatever they want. At the same time Sullivan was in the Philippines suggesting the US might help them with their “Mischief Reef” problem. Is the US going to go to war over disputed fishing rights, really? Which war starts first? Ironically, the Poles are using the South China Sea marine tactics against the Nordstream II. Such a rules based order.

      • #414713
        Passionate Progressive
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        I hope I’m proven wrong……

        The precedents for going to wars for issues that were outside of the NATO and or UN Charter are too numerous.  Further, Biden has made commitments – to stand I think the words I heard were ‘shoulder to shoulder’…….Whether this is rhetoric or Biden can convince other members to commit….who knows….

        But as Michael Hudson pointed out (per my post in this thread), these people are fanatically anti-Russian.

        The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

        • #414714
          Earthartist
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          Yes Soryang they were using their boats to ram pipe line boats. Reading the comments on Saker was very interesting as a number of regional people have very low opinions of the Pols.

           

          Earthartist

      • #414721
        RCW2020
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    • #414712
      Passionate Progressive
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      from the two articles referred to in the Saker’s preamble bear repeating.

      Michael Hudson stands out when he speaks about people in the United States who are driving US’ insane foreign policy or, rather, lack of it. As Hudson posits,
      “The Americans want war. The people that Biden has appointed have an emotional hatred of Russia. I’ve spoken to government people who are close to the Democratic Party, and they’ve told me that there’s a pathological emotional desire for war with Russia, largely stemming from the fact that the Tzars were anti-Semitic and there’s still the hatred about their ancestors: “Look what they did to my great-grandfather.” And so they’re willing to back the Nazis, back the anti-Semites in Ukraine. They’re willing to back today’s anti-Semites all over the world as long as they’re getting back at this emotional focus on a kind of post 19th-century economy. I’ve met these people. Their emotion is one of hatred and anger. You can look at their face and see what they’ve become. This is really dangerous. They are crazy. And Putin is quite right. America has got its power by breaking contracts. It broke all of the contracts with the native Americans to take their land. It’s broken the Iranian contract. It broke most recently the Ukrainian Minsk agreement, and the JCP before. So what’s the point of making an agreement with any Americans.”

      The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

      • #414715
        soryang
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        however, the difference here is that Ukraine is in Europe. That means that states that vote for Ukraine membership in NATO, or treating the “partner” as a member by agreeing to defend it, may have direct military consequences on states in NATO. I’m pretty sure this is the basis for German reluctance to go along with this. It was a major mistake to bring Poland and the Baltic states into NATO. This is some long held stupid obsession of the neo-cons that goes back to the fifties. That’s where all of US foreign policy is right now. Delusions of world domination that lead to military disasters and millions of people getting killed.

        I’m as concerned about this as you are. My opinion above is based on the NATO rules for membership which are based on common sense. Of course, if one doesn’t have any common sense, like the current national security people working in the white house, oh well, WWIII could break out at any time. The Germans know where this can lead.

        The national security “experts” in the white house are full of all kinds of bs game theories about how the Russians or the Chinese will back down. They’re literally delusional.

      • #414727
        Cold Mountain Trail
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        Hudson’s saying jews in the government are still burnt because of what russians did to their forefathers 3 generations or more ago?

        So burnt that they are willing to set the world on fire and take the rest of us down with them?

        I usually think hudson is on the money but that seems pretty far out there

        maybe i’m naive

        • #414751
          Passionate Progressive
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          and perhaps this is overly simplistic thinking…But what Hudson is talking about is exemplified in the musical Fiddler on the Roof and perhaps its cherry-picking but its the Kagans and the Wolfowitz and Nuland (+) within the government……….But you combine this with Brzezinski – not Jewish – but I think a large part of his (and Polish) hatred is from his historical roots….

          Russian western borders were fluid and the forced Russification and Sovietization generated  countless emigres fleeing to the US from the tsars and the Soviets….It seems that they (emigres) to a large extent find their mission to correct history within the US State Department.  This combines with the US McCarthyism of the 1950’s where – being of that generation I recall the bomb drills where we either filed into the cafeteria and/or hid under our school desks –  and it becomes a psychological trigger…..

          Whatever the genesis, I do think that within Washington, DC elite circles there exists some racist hatred of Russians and I think that this is being played by – to use Ray McGovern’s words the MICIMATT (Military Industrial Congressional Intelligence Media Academic Think Tank) Complex. 

           

          The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy.....Martin Luther King '63

    • #414716
      Earthartist
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      I don’t agree with him that Americans want it but the government and Oligarchs sure do. Lots of money to be made. I think the people are so awash is misery that blaming Russia makes it easier to deal with the fact their own government is beyond repare

      Earthartist

    • #414717
      David the Gnome
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      That the U.S. and Russia will go to war – mainly for the reason that anyone with half a brain could predict the likely conclusion.  The leading oligarchs hunger for money, power and control – but they do not want dystopia.

      No, I think this is likely more about financial maneuvers taking place behind the curtain.

      I could be wrong, but to me, the idea is insane.  Only a lunatic would want it.

    • #414718
      Earthartist
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      Yes I agree that the biden gangsters are so full of themselves they are clueless.  America has never had any threat to it’s soil I believe these oligarchs that run the pentagon still think that this makes being the worlds bully a safe game to play. I think Russia may give them an idea of what they are capable of in hopes they wake up. I don’t know if these creatures can even function beyond their greed. China Iran Russia and my guess India and Turkey may shift their alignment in the near future as our economy tanks. I just hope the big kids are capable of taking care of the world without WW3 and I do not include the UK and US at the big kid table

      Earthartist

    • #414722
      soryang
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      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_theory

      bs bargaining tactic short interesting write up.

    • #414734
      Pam2
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      What happened to the 7 wars we are already in? Isn’t that enough? Assholes. Not to mention all our huge domestic problems.

       

       

    • #414850
      Ohio Barbarian
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      Or maybe Canada’s a better parallel than Mexico. Ain’t gonna happen. Biden’s people are idiots if they think otherwise.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

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