What Democrats Did To Progressives In 2020 Primary & The Left's Repponse Must Be Internalized

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    • #302291
      leftcoast mountains
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,374

      April 12, 2020

      Jamarl is on a roll. Wants to destroy the Dems. Sounds good to me. You want better policies? You need to go after them. Stamp them out.

       

      vote for nobody

    • #302295
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,814

      But there’s no way I can watch Jamarl Thomas talk in circles for half an hour. I wish he’d take oratory or speaking lessons so he could get to the damned point, because he’s got some great perspectives.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

      • #302299
        Homer Ramone
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 307

        Him and Tim Black both. Sorry if that seems racist, but they really do ramble…

        • #302323
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 14,814

          @homerramone

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

        • #302332
          The Red Menace
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,080

          Add Jimmy Dore and Cenk to the pile, too.

          I don’t listen to podcasts; i can read what I need. The problem is that these guys want to fill air. And sure, makes sense, you’re making podcasts for a living. Unfortunately, you really CAN’T fill an hour, or however long, with just you talking. There’s a reason the 24/7 news cycle is full of graphics, interviews, guests, and of course, reams of commercials; to break things up. To enliven things. The only people who spend an hour on the air yelling hteir opinions are crazy motherfuckers talking to other crazy motherfuckers like Glenn Beck and Rachel Maddow.

          I’m certain Jamarl and Cenk and all of them can do just fine. I just think they need a different format to do it with.

        • #302358
          roody
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 419
      • #302481
        ColorsoftheRainbow
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 583

        @ohiobarbarian writes:

        “But there’s no way I can watch Jamarl Thomas talk in circles for half an hour. I wish he’d take oratory or speaking lessons so he could get to the damned point, because he’s got some great perspectives.”

        Are you familiar with Lionel Nation?

        Jamarl Thomas is my favorite, right after Jimmy Dore, but I found myself tuning out about halfway.

        But, it has nothing to do with Thomas.

        It is me.

        I understood enough of it, and then all that has played out was being reminded via Thomas, that I was ready to move on. I mean, really, I am already there. I have denied the Democrats my general-election votes in 2016 and 2018—and I am prepared to do so again in 2020. How many consecutive times does it take before one is out (so to speak)?

        I lately have been taking some breaks, with exception of Jimmy Dore, from following some content by the progressives I trust because, frankly, it is just how I am feeling over the last couple weeks.

    • #302300
      Red Cloud
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,433

      Dummy-crats see outsider Bernie and gang tackle his momentum, plus MSM in on the propaganda parade, etc. Even though Bernie would absolutely trounce Trump, they can’t have the better version of FDR take the keys. Instead they let punch-drunk clueless Joe cheat up the momentum.

    • #302318
      Zopilote
      Member
      • Total Posts: 612

      The ONLY way we can gain any power is by refusing to support shit democrats.

      • #302335
        The Red Menace
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,080

        I heard that one all the time in 2016.

        No dumbasses, blackmail is demanding I vote to injure myself or else you’ll punish me.

        This is negotiations. You want something I have – my vote – alright, so what will you give me for it? How much is it worth to you, Democrats? It’s up for grabs, but I’ve got good offers from other people and you’re gonna have to do better. I’ve got Howie on the line promising me an actual Green New Deal, I’ve got Gloria over there, promising me universal employment programs. But what are you offering me, Democrats? What, telling me that I can have medicare in twenty-five years? No sale.

    • #302381
      Jim Lane
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 462

      I agree with the comments here about the way Jamarl rambles.  Based on the times I’ve listened patiently to him in the past, I’m now unwilling to invest half an hour to find out what’s on his mind.

      There’s a definite Conventional JPR Wisdom — not universal but common — that goes something like this: Biden is not a progressive.  Progressives should refuse to vote for Biden so as to influence future cycles.  The DNC actually chooses the nominee, the primaries being just kabuki theater, and if Biden wins then the DNC will continue to nominate similar candidates.  If, however, progressives refuse to vote for Biden, and he loses, then the DNC will realize that progressives are a force to be reckoned with, and that the Democratic Party needs our votes, and it will modify its conduct accordingly.

      Does Jamarl, in 30 minutes, add anything to that?  Does he have anything specific to say about what the left’s response should be?

      • #302417
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,140

        wherein one must vote for Trump or Biden, no matter how much the GOP and the Democratic Party wish to make that so.

        This board was founded by people disgusted with the Democratic Party, not just people who dislike Hillary as a candidate or who want Bernie as a candidate.  Dislike of what the Democratic Party has become is at the root of this.

        We know the Democratic Party is never going to get anything but more corporate.  We just won’t vote for that.  What, exactly, would YOU recommend?  Vote for the blue no matter who?  Nope, and whatever progressives want, they have to start somewhere, no matter how small.  Personally, eight years of corporate Democrat feasting on the peasants sounds worse than four more years of Trump.  The list floated of Biden’s possible cabinet picks tells me that.  Wall Street all the way.  I have no illusions that the Democratic Party will do anything but continue sliding to the right.  Just not something I will vote for, that’s all.  Simple as that.

        Someone told me if I didn’t care for reading repetitive stuff  about numbers, I should ask the mods for the ignore function.  I would suggest the same thing for those who don’t want to waste their time listening to Jamarl.  He is not going to say anything you would agree with, is my take on it.


        @jimlane

      • #302424
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 14,814

        @jimlane The Democratic Party of my youth is dead. Stone cold dead and buried. It is now the Vichy Democrat Party(VDP), steadfastly inimical to my interests. It has proven itself openly hostile to leftists like me, and probably you for that matter, and reform from within is impossible.

        I thought this years ago, but figured it was worth one more “Once more into the breach, dear friends” effort at reform of the Party behind Bernie Sanders and his FDR-type vision, and behind groups like Justice Democrats. That effort has unequivocally failed. As I see it, progressives should work to destroy the VDP, not to save it, for it no longer has any redeeming social value for us that’s worth more than a bucket of warm spit, as James Nance Garner might say.

        And then what, you ask? Again, speaking only or myself, I think the possibility of peaceful reform and revolution has passed. Reform through democratic elections is impossible in a country that is not, and never will be, a democracy so long as the ruling oligarchy has power, and they’re not going to give it up no matter how we vote; in fact, they’ll electronically change our votes for reformers into votes for their puppets if enough of us show up. They just did that last month.

        So what will I do? I’ll vote my conscience, which means no votes for any Democrats whatsoever this year. Many others will simply not vote, and I can’t blame them. I’ll look into supporting third parties, though they alone will not be able to make the changes we need to survive. I’ll advocate for wildcat strikes and a general strike; anything to disrupt this system and hopefully force some real change.

        And I’ll wait for the inevitable collapse of our kleptocratic, financial capitalist system that climate change alone will bring about if other factors don’t cause it first. Whatever causes it, there will be opportunities, but we will need the support of the military rank-and-file to pull it off in the end.

        In short, there will probably be blood. You may as well get used to the idea. It’s not my first choice, but it is likely to be the only choice in the end. Either that, or serfdom, and that is unacceptable. The VDP has forgotten JFK’s warning,

        Those who make peaceful revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. 

        One day they will reap the whirlwind that they themselves have helped to create. I just hope I live long enough to see it.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

      • #302435
        ravensong
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,144

        covers at least part of what he was trying to express.

        This Absolute Bullshit Would Not Be Possible Without Propaganda

        https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2020/04/13/this-absolute-bullshit-would-not-be-possible-without-propaganda/

        “A lie doesn't become truth, wrong doesn't become right, and evil doesn't become good, just because it's accepted by a majority.” ~ Booker T. Washington

        The truth is, there’s no such thing as being “anti-Fascist.” Either you are a decent human being with a conscience, or you are a fascist.
        ~ Unknown

      • #302606
        Utopian Leftist
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 410

        The DNC actually chooses the nominee, the primaries being just kabuki theater, and if Biden wins then the DNC will continue to nominate similar candidates.

        You got that mostly right. However, the DNC will continue to nominate similar candidates from now until kingdom come. That much has become clear, considering the lengths they have gone to twice, to vanquish Bernie, the most popular politician in Murderkkkastan!

        I say at this point that if there is any hope AT ALL FOR ANYONE ON THE PLANET, it will come in the form of a third party.

        "All fascism is a result of a failure of the left to provide a viable alternative." ~ Trotsky

    • #302396
      Canoeist52
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 103

      The primary in summed-up in a pointed phrase…

      "There is nothing pragmatic about an incremental solution to a catastrophic problem." - Ron Placone

    • #302764
      Betty Karlson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 467

      Destroy them both (GOP and Dem).

      Cut-throat policies, scorched earth, … call it what you want. Just as long as the system is blown up.

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