What If the U.S. Had Multiple Political Parties?
November 18, 2019 at 10:25 PM - Views: 81 #227259
Echelon Insights looked at U.S. registered voter support in a hypothetical multi-party democracy.
Here’s what it might look like:
- 28% Labor (working class center-left)
- 21% Conservative (traditional-right, pre-Trump)
- 19% Nationalist (basically Trump)
- 12% “Acela Party” (socially liberal, globalist, fiscally centrist)
- 10% Green (basically AOC)
I think there are many problems with this. I think basically AOC are the working class wing of the party & the rest rely on a lesser of two evils voting strategy or “electability” voters that if given a fair chance between all those parties basically AOC would beat whoever Labor is & the conservatives & basically Trump which they could combine because there is not much difference.
What do you think about this?
November 18, 2019 at 10:44 PM #227262
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our “two” parties not only add up to ~46% of the registered electorate, they’re also older and more populous than half of Europe’s countries (Italy has 60K but was only finalized 1870): frankly they’re a poli sci question unique in the annals of state representation
November 18, 2019 at 10:47 PM #227263
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It would quickly devolve to a two party system, just as we have now. Multiple parties work where they have proportional representation, with the p ok possibility of two or more representatives from a given district. We have winner-take-all primaries and single member districts, thereby ensuring that power is divided roughly in half because the only force capable of competing with the biggest party is the next-biggest party.
November 18, 2019 at 11:55 PM #227325
UK has similar system as US, and a very complex multiparty system becoming even more multiparty. What is most astonishing about US mass culture is the near total lack of federal representation of locally defined independent political parties – which if strong enough would prevent the bipartisan hold on media narratives.
November 18, 2019 at 10:47 PM #227264
AOC: red-green coalition of urban precariate. Collage edumacated, loads of debt, no steady job.
Labor/trad. social democrats are the traditional union workers with steady jobs, classical urban proletariate.
November 18, 2019 at 11:26 PM #227317
- Total Posts: 1,010
This is roughly about what I’d expect from most polls I’ve seen of voter ideology. Usually economically left/ socially moderate is the largest block, and fiscally conservative/ socially liberal is the smallest.
It makes sense when you break it down into simple terms: people put self-interest first. They prioritize what they believe will benefit them in the here and now (so called kitchen table issues), which is what this hypothetical labor party promises. In other words, they want healthcare, good wages, job security, and a strong social safety net, but are less concerned about stuff like reparations or abolishing ICE.
November 18, 2019 at 11:44 PM #227323
Where does that leave the 60% of African Americans that support reparations & ICE has only been around since the Bush administration & they are very racist, misogynist, & right wing. Trust me Hispanics are not going to want to save ICE.
AOC > ICE
Members of a secret Facebook group for current and former Border Patrol agents joked about the deaths of migrants, discussed throwing burritos at Latino members of Congress visiting a detention facility in Texas on Monday and posted a vulgar illustration depicting Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez engaged in oral sex with a detained migrant, according to screenshots of their postings.
In one exchange, group members responded with indifference and wisecracks to the post of a news story about a 16-year-old Guatemalan migrant who died in May while in custody at a Border Patrol station in Weslaco, Texas. One member posted a GIF of Elmo with the quote, “Oh well.” Another responded with an image and the words “If he dies, he dies.”
Created in August 2016, the Facebook group is called “I’m 10-15” and boasts roughly 9,500 members from across the country. (10-15 is Border Patrol code for “aliens in custody.”) The group described itself, in an online introduction, as a forum for “funny” and “serious” discussion about work with the patrol. “Remember you are never alone in this family,” the introduction said
“These comments and memes are extremely troubling,” said Daniel Martinez, a sociologist at the University of Arizona in Tucson who studies the border. “They’re clearly xenophobic and sexist.”
The postings, in his view, reflect what “seems to be a pervasive culture of cruelty aimed at immigrants within CBP. This isn’t just a few rogue agents or ‘bad apples.’”
The Border Patrol Facebook group is the most recent example of some law enforcement personnel behaving badly in public and private digital spaces. An investigation by Reveal uncovered hundreds of active-duty and retired law enforcement officers who moved in extremist Facebook circles, including white supremacist and anti-government groups. A team of researchers calling themselves the Plain View Project recently released a hefty database of offensive Facebook posts made by current and ex-law enforcement officers.
And in early 2018, federal investigators found a raft of disturbing and racist text messages sent by Border Patrol agents in southern Arizona after searching the phone of Matthew Bowen, an agent charged with running down a Guatemalan migrant with a Ford F-150 pickup truck. The texts, which were revealed in a court filing in federal court in Tucson, described migrants as “guats,” “wild ass shitbags,” “beaners” and “subhuman.” The messages included repeated discussions about burning the migrants up.
One member encouraged Border Patrol agents to hurl a “burrito at these bitches.” Another, apparently a patrol supervisor, wrote, “Fuck the hoes.” “There should be no photo ops for these scum buckets,” posted a third member.
Perhaps the most disturbing posts target Ocasio-Cortez. One includes a photo illustration of her engaged in oral sex at an immigrant detention center. Text accompanying the image reads, “Lucky Illegal Immigrant Glory Hole Special Starring AOC.”
Another is a photo illustration of a smiling President Donald Trump forcing Ocasio-Cortez’s head toward his crotch. The agent who posted the image commented: “That’s right bitches. The masses have spoken and today democracy won.”
Vicki Gaubeca, director of the Southern Border Communities Coalition, said the postings are more evidence of the sexism and misogyny that has long plagued the Border Patrol. “That’s why they’re the worst at recruiting women,” said Gaubeca, whose group works to reform the agency. “They have the lowest percentage of female agents or officers of any federal law enforcement agency.”
Democrats ran on Abolish ICE platforms the 2018 midterms but are abandoning it so the establishment was never sincere.
Guess what AOC supports those working class issues more so then DCCC Democrats or ones taking Super PACs or corrupted by money in politics. I never had a candidate that I agreed with 100% of the time though Bernie Sanders is close but I wouldn’t ditch someone over reparations especially with a racially wealth gap, slavery, Jim Crow, redlining, mass incarceration, etc & fuck ICE. If we abandon these issues we risk losing voters to the “vichy” Dems you all hate so much.
On edit — the story is about border patrol but Abolish ICE in an AOC context reminded me of that story. Either I side with AOC over ICE. If that makes me unpopular I’ll just quit politics. I just hope the next President legalizes weed.
November 19, 2019 at 12:15 AM #227333
- Total Posts: 1,010
Jesus… Calm down. That was just an example as this “labor party” is defined as being “focused on bread-and-butter economic issues, not cultural issues.”
Well, this hypothetical “labor party” was more attractive to Hispanic voters than any other racial group, and more attractive to black than white voters (page 8 of your first link), so don’t shoot the messenger. That doesn’t mean they support nationalist policies; it’s not a binary choice. It is priorities though. People want to pay their bills first and foremost.
The “Acela Party” is the one most similar to vichy dems, so this is something different entirely.
November 19, 2019 at 12:23 AM #227337
Sorry. I just think AOC policies are more popular like she recently came out against reauthorization of the Patriot Act. I remember Democrats were united in opposing the Patriot Act under Bush and I have always had the same policies so the party around me changed under Obama while I stay the same. I have respect for people like Greenwald for staying consistent under Obama, Bush, Trump.
I’m close to giving up on politics. I will wait and see how this Bernie things play out then after that I will work it out from there. 🙂
November 18, 2019 at 11:58 PM #227328
First priority of young people is environment.
November 19, 2019 at 12:18 AM #227335
- Total Posts: 1,216
I’ve been wishing for this for many years. The two party system does not work now, if it ever did. The Big Tent is a cherished myth.
I feel much better since I gave up hope.
"If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set, then there’d be peace." – John Lennon
November 19, 2019 at 1:58 AM #227371
- Total Posts: 2,007
Even better. What the U.S. had no political parties?
“I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all.” –Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.
“Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,…to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man.” –Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.
Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites
November 19, 2019 at 3:51 AM #227426
November 19, 2019 at 2:08 AM #227379
- Total Posts: 4,430
Yhat is never, ever going to happen unless current third parties get serious about voter outreach There are very rare examples where the do, as in Kshama Sawant’s volunteer base of nearly 1000 people.
Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction
November 19, 2019 at 2:50 AM #227402
Cold Mountain TrailMember@coldmountaintrail
- Total Posts: 5,936
all that adds up to 90%.
the way they’ve broken it down there’s a presumptive majority for right wing economic policies.
i don’t believe it.
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