Why Bernie Lost

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    • #285681
      Stockholmer
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 500

      Pakman nails it pretty much, especially Sander’s false self-labelling as a democrat socialist (and also his weak attempts to try to call us Nordics dem soc nations, smdh) part. It isn’t like I did not try and warn on that for ages.

      Like the Bajans say…….

      Hard-ears dun hear, hard-ears gine feel

    • #285687
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,974

      They hit him over the head with Castro & the cold war debate. They wouldn’t let Sanders have his thunder after primary wins while the media was in the tank for Biden.

      He would probably done better if he called himself a social Democrat instead of socialist or be a registered member of the party but I always felt a general election was easier for Bernie to win than a Democratic Party primary.

       

      Packman was one of the people that hit Sanders with Castro so fuck him.

      • #285724
        joentokyo
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,026

        @jonlp

        Yet another Neo-liberal wearing a progressive sheep-skin progressive suit. Hmmm. Maybe that should be Neocon, not Neo-liberal.

        “A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves” ~ French philosopher Bertrand de Jouvenel (1903-1987)

    • #285727
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 13,725

      Does Pakman mention election fraud? No? That is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. In state after state, actual results showed an 11 point swing from Bernie to Biden from the exit polls. If this had happened in Sweden, would it have been a major issue? I don’t know. You tell me.

      It would not have been an issue in the UK, for they have paper ballots there. Not here. Easily rigged electronic voting machines here, and they were used.

      My point is that the Democratic Party establishment would have done the same thing no matter what Bernie labeled himself, and it would have worked just as well for them.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

      • #285757
        Stockholmer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 500

        I do not buy into the whole votes were flipped bollocks. Way too tinfoil hattish for my tastes, and backed with ephemeral wishes and dodgy exit polls (pulls might be more apropos). If you honestly think that your nation is collapsed to that shambolic of a level, why stay? You can do nothing to change it if you truly believe your own paradigm.

        • #285777
          joentokyo
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,026

          @stockholmer

          I live in Japan. Left in 1982.

          “A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves” ~ French philosopher Bertrand de Jouvenel (1903-1987)

        • #285778
          Cold Mountain Trail
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 8,476

          still pushing the line you push everytime you show up here i see

          the adoptive swede from the british council

          pakman is a joke

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        • #285789
          incognito
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 3,700

          evoting machines were designed to steal votes. Here’s the Whistleblower who designed the software himself, testifying before John Conyers’ committee. You will see Maxine Waters sitting on the committee and you will hear Jerry Nadler asking questions but is hidden behind the woman with the camera. All of Congress KNOWS evoting machines can be programmed to steal votes. That’s why we still use them. And FYI, after this hearing (I watched this Live the day he testified) , the evoting machine fraud issue was dropped – never to be discussed publicly by anyone in Congress ever again. WHY? Because BOTH parties use them to steal elections. Just watch this testimony of the Whistleblower.:

        • #285802
          RobertFromNC
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 91

          @stockholmer,

          I am not sure about the whole votes flipped thing either, I think that would be very hard to do. With that being said, I certainly wouldn’t trust the results in cases were the vote totals are very close(like Florida in 2000), and the whole race certainly has not been conducted in a fair way to Bernie or Tulsi. Not to mention the caucuses and delegate awarding processes(which I do think are and have been rigged outright). The Democratic Party establishment(who oversees the elections in the primary) and the media have colluded against and done everything that they could possibly do to stop Bernie and Tulsi by running the elections in a way that works against the two and not covering/giving negative coverage of the campaigns in the news.

          • #285903
            carrotguy
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 453

            I don’t think vote flipping would be hard to do.   The conventional argument against conspiracy theories – that  cooperation requires so many collaborators the  secret couldn’t be kept – is sometimes valid.   Despite how valid that seems, the history of union busting, surveillance of political groups, and general greedy human rat-fuckery leaves me in a position of being absolutely and genuinely astonished if I learned that some steps weren’t taken to directly affect voting results.

            If you need cooperation, blackmail it

        • #285810
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 13,725

          @stockholmer Easy for you to say, just as it is easy for comfortable American white liberals in the suburbs to say that we can’t afford to pay for Medicare for All but we can pay for wars to keep us safe. You speak from a position of privilege, whether you know it or not.

          Have you even looked at the exit polls and compared them to the actual results. Have you even seen how easy it is to program an electronic scanner to flip a set percentage of votes? Come back to me after you have.

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

          • #285852
            Stockholmer
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 500

            exit polls are notoriously unreliable

            Exit Polls: Why They So Often Mislead

            https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/05/upshot/exit-polls-why-they-so-often-mislead.html

            Did you think John Kerry was poised to win the presidency? That Scott Walker was close to losing the 2012 governor’s recall election in Wisconsin? Do you believe that the black share of the electorate in North Carolina dropped to 23 percent in 2012, from 26 percent in 2004? If you said “yes” to any of those things, you probably have too much faith in exit polls.

            Don’t get me wrong: Exit polls are an exciting piece of Election Day information. They’re just not perfect. The problem with them is that most analysts and readers treat them as if they’re infallible.

            The problems begin early on election evening, when the first waves of exit polls are invariably leaked and invariably show a surprising result somewhere. You’re best off ignoring these early returns, which are unweighted — meaning the demographic mix of the respondents is not adjusted to match any expectations for the composition of the electorate. The first waves also don’t even include all of the exit poll interviews.

            The problems continue with the final waves, which analysts pore over in the days after the election and treat as a definitive account of the composition of the electorate. Some foolish journalists might write entire posts that assume that the black share of the electorate was 15 percent in Ohio. In reality, the exit polls just aren’t precise enough to justify making distinctions between an electorate that’s 15 percent black and, say, 13 percent black.

            snip

             

            Is this the beginning of the end of the exit poll?

            https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/09/exit-polls-election-day-frustration-287913

             

            Ten Reasons Why You Should Ignore Exit Polls

            https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ten-reasons-why-you-should-ignore-exit/

             

             

            • #285882
              Ohio Barbarian
              Moderator
              • Total Posts: 13,725

              That is what has happened in the primaries this year. I’m not exactly a CT type–I believe Al-Qaeda was responsible for 9/11 and that JFK was killed by a lone gunman–but I do believe the evidence of my own eyes and my own experience. I also know how easy it is to slip in one line of simple code.

              Most states do not have paper ballots, there is no paper trail at all for how votes were cast, no audit trail, and corporations like Diebold have patent protections that prevent anyone they don’t authorize to inspect their machines. So yes, my nation has sunk to this shambolic level of corruption when it comes to our elections. The only way to change it is to go back to paper ballots with public counting of votes.

              And what European country will take in a 61 year old man with no skills that they need? And his wife whose greatest skill is genealogical research? They shouldn’t, and I don’t blame them. Besides, I’m patriotic in my own way. It’s my country, and I will fight for it as best I can.

              I also find your attitude on this thread condescending and smug. I don’t have to like it, and I don’t.

              It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

              If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

              • #286324
                JonLP
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 1,974

                He may have been shot by a lone gunman but certainly part of a conspiracy. Oswald visited the Soviet Embassy the section that deals with assassinations in Mexico City. The CIA was watching the place but instead of providing a photo of Oswald they provided a photo of a body double. Also the CIA worked with the Mafia to assassinate Castro and that could have easily turned against JFK. There are so many suspects. I suspect that Bay of Pigs, The Kennedy Assassination, and Watergate are linked because it involves many of the same faces.

                As far as 9/11 the Saudi Arabia government assisted the highjackers and the US government as well as the FBI covered it up.

          • #285857
            Cold Mountain Trail
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 8,476

            that one is always pushing the anti-bernie line every time he deigns to visit

            which is every time bernie has a setback

            calls himself a ‘nordic’ bs

             

            • #285862
              Stockholmer
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 500

              Not at all, I just have a more reality-grounded take on things, IMHO.

              I warned for ages about false self-labelling, and sure enough, that came back to bite Sanders in the batty.

              It allowed a negative narrative to be EASILY reinforced, as you had Sanders in hundreds of videos and print articles claiming a label (and falsely claiming it at that) that is electoral poison in reactionary America. It is also patently false to call the Nordic nations socialist countries, it is straight up bollocks.

              It did not take quantum analysis to call that one years in advance.

              cheers

              • #285888
                Cold Mountain Trail
                Participant
                • Total Posts: 8,476

                “patently false to call the Nordic nations socialist countries”

                you claim bernie did that too?

                you’re a brit, you’re a nordic, you’re an expert on ‘reactionary’ america…

                 

                • #285911
                  Stockholmer
                  Participant
                  • Total Posts: 500

                  of course he did

                  he said democratic socialism in his definition was not Cuba or the Soviet Union but instead like Denmark or Sweden

                  you need to pay more attention to what is going on instead of constantly try to snipe and slag people off who are simply giving preemptive and constructive advice

                   

                  .

                  https://grabien.com/story.php?id=272169

                  .

                  SANDERS: “Now my definition of socialism, needless to say, is a little bit different, and I think if you look at countries around the world, look at countries in Scandinavia, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, what do they have? Everybody in those countries has health care as a human right. They vary a little bit, but by and large, it is a right. You don’t have to take out your wallet. It is available to all people. In those countries, Germany, other countries, higher education is basically free. In those countries, you have strong child care systems so mom and dad can go to work and know that their kids are going to be in high quality affordable child care. The housing programs are strong. In other words, they have run governments which have policies designed to help the working families and the middle class.”

                   

                  .

                  Democrats point to Nordic nations as models of socialism. Here’s how they actually work.

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/democrats-use-nordic-nations-as-models-of-socialism-they-actually-involve-a-lot-of-capitalism/2019/06/24/b6d9bbdc-945c-11e9-b58a-a6a9afaa0e3e_story.html

                   

                  Socialism — pro or con — is the hot issue in Democratic circles as the party’s candidates for president prepare to debate this week.

                  To the obvious objection that socialism failed catastrophically in Venezuela and the Soviet Union, Democratic democratic socialists have a ready response: Our model is the thriving nations of northern Europe.

                  “I think that countries like Denmark and Sweden do very well,” Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) told an Iowa audience in April. “My policies most closely resemble what we see in the U.K., in Norway, in Finland, in Sweden,” Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) told CBS’s “60 Minutes” in January.

                   

                  snip

                   

                   

                  Bernie Sanders Doesn’t Understand Scandinavia

                  They’re not socialist.

                  https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/bernie-sanders-doesnt-understand-scandinavia-119906

                   

                   

                  Bernie Sanders’s Scandinavian fantasy

                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/bernie-sanderss-scandinavian-fantasy/2020/02/27/ee894d6e-599f-11ea-9b35-def5a027d470_story.html

                   

                  Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) says that his proposals “are not radical,” pointing again and again to countries in Northern Europe such as Denmark, Sweden and Norway as examples of the kind of economic system he wants to bring to the United States. The image he conjures up is of a warm and fuzzy social democracy in which market economics are kept on a tight leash through regulation, the rich are heavily taxed and the social safety net is generous. That is, however, an inaccurate and highly misleading description of those Northern European countries today.

                  Take billionaires. Sanders has been clear on the topic: “Billionaires should not exist.” But Sweden and Norway both have more billionaires per capita than the United States — Sweden almost twice as many. Not only that, these billionaires are able to pass on their wealth to their children tax-free. Inheritance taxes in Sweden and Norway are zero, and in Denmark 15 percent. The United States, by contrast, has the fourth-highest estate taxes in the industrialized world at 40 percent.

                  Sanders’s vision of Scandinavian countries, as with much of his ideology, seems to be stuck in the 1960s and 1970s, a period when these countries were indeed pioneers in creating a social market economy. In Sweden, government spending as a percentage of gross domestic product doubled from 1960 to 1980, going from approximately 30 percent to 60 percent. But as Swedish commentator Johan Norberg points out, this experiment in Sanders-style democratic socialism tanked the Swedish economy. Between 1970 and 1995, he notes, Sweden did not create a single net new job in the private sector. In 1991, a free-market prime minister, Carl Bildt, initiated a series of reforms to kick-start the economy. By the mid-2000s, Sweden had cut the size of its government by a third and emerged from its long economic slump.

                  snip

                   

                  They call themselves socialists, but they don’t know the meaning of the word

                  https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article215553335.html

                   

                   

                  Denmark’s prime minister says Bernie Sanders is wrong to call his country socialist

                  https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/9650030/denmark-prime-minister-bernie-sanders

                   

                   

                  What socialism is — according to Bernie Sanders

                  U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders has been calling himself a democratic socialist since the 1960s.
                  Bernie’s use of the word “socialist” has attracted both love and ire from the left.
                  His definition of socialism is vague, but is the basis for many people’s understanding of the concept.

                  https://bigthink.com/politics-current-affairs/what-is-socialism-bernie-sanders?rebelltitem=3#rebelltitem3

                  snip

                  Luckily for us, Senator Sanders explained his political philosophy in a speech he delivered at Georgetown University in 2015. (The entire speech can be viewed here.)

                  He begins by referring to the New Deal of President Franklin Roosevelt and pointing out the good that it did for a country in the depths of the Great Depression:

                  “He saw one-third of a nation ill-housed, ill-clad, ill-nourished. And he acted. Against the ferocious opposition of the ruling class of his day, people he called economic royalists, Roosevelt implemented a series of programs that put millions of people back to work, took them out of poverty and restored their faith in government. He redefined the relationship of the federal government to the people of our country. He combated cynicism, fear and despair. He reinvigorated democracy. He transformed the country. . . . And, by the way, almost everything he proposed was called ‘socialist.'”

                  The senator then muses on several issues facing the United States, income inequality, unemployment, high rates of childhood poverty, the high cost of medical care, and a declining faith in our political system, among others, and decides that the concentration of wealth and power is both the root cause of them and the key reason why we have failed to solve them. His solution, of course, is “socialism.” It is then that he gives us his conception of what that is:

                  “Democratic socialism means that we must create an economy that works for all, not just the very wealthy. Democratic socialism means that we must reform a political system in America today which is not only grossly unfair but, in many respects, corrupt.”

                  He goes a bit into the particulars of policy and explained that his conception of socialism would require — this is what it would look like — universal health care, total employment, free college education, more public spending, a living wage, environmental regulations, and a robust democratic culture to come into existence. He flatly denied any interest in nationalization, telling the audience:

                  “So the next time you hear me attacked as a socialist, remember this: I don’t believe government should own the means of production, but I do believe that the middle class and the working families who produce the wealth of America deserve a fair deal.”

                  The contents of this speech were very similar to other statements he has made about socialism across his entire political career. The entire speech could have been summed up neatly in a quote he gave to the Associated Press back in 1997:

                  “To me, socialism doesn’t mean state ownership of everything, by any means, it means creating a nation, and a world, in which all human beings have a decent standard of living.”

                  Wait a moment, praise for the New Deal? No interest in nationalization? That definition sounds a lot like capitalism!

                  You might have noticed that this program focuses on making capitalism work better and not replacing it with an entirely new system based on social ownership. This has made his definition of socialism a matter of contention.

                  While “socialism” is a system based around replacing private ownership of the means of production with social ownership, which generally means having the workers own and operate them instead — either through cooperatives or the state — Bernie hasn’t shown much of an interest in using the government to promote this change.

                  Bernie’s explanation of “socialism” is, in fact, closer to what political philosophers refer to as “social democracy.” This is a capitalist system, since the means of production are still privately owned, where the state heavily regulates the economy and has an active welfare system in place to correct for the worst problems inherent to capitalism like inequality, cyclic instability, or the profit motive encouraging people to do things against the public interest.
                • #285930
                  Stockholmer
                  Participant
                  • Total Posts: 500

                  Based off what I have seen of your postings, yes, I think I have a superior knowledge of the American geopolitical, socio-economic, and socio-cultural makeup and interlocks, the taproot structural underpinnings of those arenas, than you do, certainly from an academic standpoint and I daresay, from a balanced realistic weighing of the scales of outcomes as well. You seem to exhibit a rigid, inflexible, and ineffectual doctrinaire typology, one that tries to ramrod and force-fit reality into various and sundry compartmentalisation schemata solely to match your wishes and desires.

                  I have lived in the US for multiple years over two separate periods and have been there on dozens of trips, both of business and personal nature. I have been in every State save for Alaska and Hawai’i (zero desire to go to either.) I do not come to the table devoid of real life experiential backgrounding when it comes to my discussions of the nation.

                   

                  • #285945
                    Cold Mountain Trail
                    Participant
                    • Total Posts: 8,476

                    “he said democratic socialism in his definition was not Cuba or the Soviet Union but instead like Denmark or Sweden”

                    –oh, now you add ‘democratic’ to the ‘socialism’ you typed about before.  as though they were synonyms.  maybe they are in brit-speak.

                     

                    “you need to pay more attention to what is going on instead of constantly try to snipe and slag people off who are simply giving preemptive and constructive advice”

                    — thanks for more advice, but actually what you do is uniformly make negative posts about sanders, particularly when he’s had a set-back.

                    – I don’t need cites from the WAPO & The National Interest (founded by ‘the godfather of neo-conservatism,’ Irving Kristol, that’s a tell btw; you have a talent for finding such sources to cite) to ‘elite-splain’ what “democratic socialist” means in English because I got a good public school education  and know the popular and political usage of the phrase over many decades.

                    Not buying what you’re selling, no matters how many americans you’ve met on your varied stops in varied international locations. quite the jet-setter, our man stockholmer…

                    • #285989
                      Stockholmer
                      Participant
                      • Total Posts: 500

                      awww

                      Image result for you mad bro

                       

                      did you want to be a physician as a child, cuz you are up my arse like a bloody proctologist

                      you constantly make false aspersions about my postings

                      I have been on JPR since the dot org days

                      and you are the only one who is on constant perma-whinge mode

                       

                      btw I changed nothing over the years when it comes to my critique

                      democratic socialism is the label that Sanders falsely self labels as

                      dem soc for short

                      don’t try and play too-clever-by-half semantic games via weak pettifogging attempts

                      Sanders constantly conflates social democracy with democratic socialism, and has repeatedly, for ages, tried to cast the Nordics as dem soc, when they ARE NOT.

                      Regardless of what you want to believe, the bottom line is that his incorrect definitions and labels were deleterious (as predicted) in terms of impact to his overall campaign. US elections, Dummicrat primaries included, are not won by playing ‘pin the tail on the Jacobin editor’ games.

                       

                       

        • #285926
          Maedhros
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 641

          Big differences between exit polls and election results is a red flag.

          His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
          but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
          and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
          more deadly than his right had been.

      • #285969
        Haikugal
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 1,557

        @ohiobarbarian.

        My point is that the Democratic Party establishment would have done the same thing no matter what Bernie labeled himself, and it would have worked just as well for them.

        This is the conclusion I have come to.

        edited to add quote..

    • #285734
      B Calm
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 821

      does not allow their presidential candidates to run left of center.

    • #285752
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,854

      ..would have never allowed Bernie to take power and they were willing to do whatever it took,with the help of their enablers in the media,to stop him.If it took slander,so be it.If it took election fraud,so be it.

    • #285758
      incognito
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,700

      just so happens to be one of my least favorite people and this is why. Mr. vote blue no matter who and insisted everyone vote for Clinton in 2016? Fuck him until he calls out obvious ELECTION FRAUD.

      He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. The Castro thing was ridiculous. Obama said the same things Bernie said. All that was just a ruse. No one gives two hoots about that. It’s just one more excuse to use to cover up evoting machine fraud.

      • #286325
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,974

        More people watch the corporate media than reading Shaun King tweets. Look at the polls before and after. It certainly had an effect. Progressives may not have given a shit but the media hit job certainly had an effect.

        Take a look at The View. They were glowing in praise over Obama and Cuba but when it came to Bernie Sanders they were 100% negative. I bet more people watch The View than those that read Shaun King tweets.

    • #285775
      MikeW285
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 221

      I’m getting the lowlights here in the comments, thanks all.  I stopped watching Pakman after he jumped on the Her train in 2016. Same with Cenk and Hartmann, sad to say.

    • #285798
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,371

      This is what you are going with?  No election fraud, those who say otherwise are wearing tinfoil hats and shit?  How little you understand American elections.  There has been deep fraud, theft, manipulation and voter suppression in every election of my lifetime.  They dont just do it – they take pride in it.

      Pakman is wrong – and so are you.  You make it sound so damn easy to just up and leave America.  Here is a fact – precious few Nations have anything remotely resembling a progressive immigration policy.  Ask the Greeks, the Turks.  Ask the Europeans, the Asians, shit, ask anybody.

      I dont disagree that the primaries are basically lost.  I absolutely disagree with the naivete that insists there isnt foul play here.  Of course there is.  The Shadow app, the hundreds of polling stations closed – deliberately to prevent the young, the poor and Latino Americans from voting

      The media constantly lying about Sanders and treating Joe like he is some kind of fucking hero.  It was no coincidence that Buttigieg, Klobuchar, Bloomberg – or even Yang endorsed Biden.  Promises are made and only some times kept, simply put, bribery.

      No, I do not believe Bernie will win – but being condescended to by people who have little stake in this grates on my nerves.  You know who has stake in this?  Poor Americans, working class Americans, disabled Americans, so many of us who never had the right education to tell us WHY voting is so important.

      Maybe you are worried about the U.S. military or the way our mad fucking oligarchy is accelerating climate change.  Hint: the way to resolve this is not to condescend to or show contempt for Americans.

      I cant continue this.  I’m too fucking pissed.

      • #285871
        Stockholmer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 500

        I have met shedloads of American expats over the decades, in an utter multiplicy of nation states. Many of them far from wealthy overall, and many are recent (within the past 5 to 10 years, multiple ones in the last couple. The US has millions of immigrants of recent origin, many came with almost nothing. The same goes for the EU. You just have to want it bad enough, and be willing to roll the dice in terms of uncertainty, plus be willing to put in the effort, which starts with taking the initiative and actually planning it out.

        I am NOT saying leaving is the only option, I was simply replying to a posited paradigm that to me seems truly nihilistic.

    • #285805
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,371

      @incognito

      The big high and mighty Muckety mucks have known for a long time.  They have been using it for a long time.

      I wonder if some of our more computer literate members or programmers can comment on the video Incognito shared?  100 lines of code, if you could see the source codes of this voting machine software, could you determine if something was there that should not be?

      Also – who has access to these source codes? Is it possible for us to get a look at them?

      • #285934
        ieoeja
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 71

        Last time I had software being turned over to me, I found dozens of errors in the first few minutes.  Code meant to flip the vote would probably stand out in a fairly big way as obviously not belonging.

        However, odds are these applications are written in a language that has to be compiled.  I could write two copies of the source code with only one of them having the crooked code.  I could compile that version then delete that copy.  So the source code you would be looking at would not match the program that was actually run.  While the date/time stamp would still match making it appear to be the correct code.

        There are ways to de-compile an application.  But that gets far trickier and not something with which I have any experience.  For one thing I believe de-compilers only output Assembly language code.  I got the flu in the middle of that semester and never did become very proficient at Assembly.

    • #285824
      Yanath
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,267

      That’s what we need; more opinion from “entrepreneurs”.

    • #285877
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,611

      IMO.   He didn’t convince enough voters that he had a better chance of beating Trump than Biden has.   Which was The Issue for most Democrats.

      I also think his decision to stick with M4A went against the majority of voters desire (rightfully or wrongfully) to have a choice about their own insurance.

      I voted for Bernie in my state’s primary and was surprised when he lost to Biden by 2%.  Probably due to the 10% of Warren supporters who stuck with her and voted early.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #285940
        Maedhros
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 641

        when the DNC and media conspire to distort and suppress his message.

        It is an error to assume that there is a level playing field for candidates.  Unfortunately, most Americans lack the critical thinking skills to recognize media bias and outright misinformation (cf. Russiagate).

        His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
        but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
        and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
        more deadly than his right had been.

        • #285956
          bazukhov
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,611

          Well, they certainly displayed their lack of critical thinking skills when millions of them voted for Trump.

          The media (at least the mass media) is most interested in selling their newspapers TV news shows advertising.    So they manufacture their headlines to attract the most interest.   “Bernie Sanders Admits He’s a Socialist!”  sells better than “Senator Sanders Expresses New Deal Principles.”

          Trump used that to his advantage by grabbing the headlines with his absurd/vulgar/racist/obviously stupid announcements.  He played to the silent (white) majorities unspoken fears and prejudices against foreigners, other races, the well educated, women, and just about anybody that wasn’t like them.   He knows his audience just like Rush Limbaugh does.  He knows what that audience wants to hear.

          Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

          • #286009
            Maedhros
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 641

            The low levels of comprehension and very poor analytical skills among the general populace is the primary cause of our political failures.  People can be convinced of demonstrably false arguments simply through repetition, a fact that the oligarchy uses to great effect.

            One of Bernie’s problems is that he speaks plainly and truthfully.  That just doesn’t fly in America.

            This quote from “The American President” sums up American politics quite effectively:

            Bob’s problem isn’t that he doesn’t get it. Bob’s problem is that he can’t sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who’s to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections. You gather a group of middle-aged, middle-class, middle-income voters who remember with longing an easier time, and you talk to them about family and American values and character. And wave an old photo of the President’s girlfriend and you scream about patriotism and you tell them, she’s to blame for their lot in life, and you go on television and you call her a whore.”

            Change the references to “Bob Rumson” to “Democrats” or “Trump” and it still fits to a ‘T’.

            His body recovered from his torment and became hale,
            but the shadow of his pain was in his heart;
            and he lived to wield his sword with left hand
            more deadly than his right had been.

          • #286040
            djean111
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 3,913

            Entitled, austerity-loving, warmongering baggage-laden really bad candidate.  Was pretty clear that the most important thing about the election was not the issues, but electing Hillary Clinton.  If Hillary had been electable, there would have been no need to cheat and rig the primaries.  Simple as that.  Looks like the DNC wants to try the same thing this time.  Nope.  And thinking Bill in the White House, in charge of the economy, was a great feature – bwahahaha!  Another nope.


            @bazukhov

             

      • #286328
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,974

        M4A won more states than either Sanders or Biden. Voters are voting against their self interest based on the idea they think Biden has a better chance of beating Trump.

    • #285912
      RobertFromNC
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 91

      Warren or Gabbard over Sanders before the election myself, although I switched to Sanders when the others didn’t gain momentum. I also now see what was wrong with Warren, and what a terrible candidate she would have been, but I am starting to wonder if Gabbard would have been a better candidate if her campaign had gained momentum. She’s much younger, doesn’t have the democratic socialist label, is a woman and a POC, and emphasizes some issues more and has some better positions than Bernie, such as ending the overseas wars, the drug war, as well as supporting universal basic income. She also has the most crossover appeal of any of the candidates. Finally and most importantly, I think that Tulsi is a much better fighter than Bernie.

      • #286340
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,974

        She isn’t critical of Modi, she voted present on impeachment rather than yes or no, if she is pushing Yang’s UBI that is another oddball position because his UBI was a scam to cut the safety net.

        Tulsi is better than most of the other candidates but Sanders was clearly the best overall on the issues.

    • #285952
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 13,725

      @robertfromnc Of that there is no doubt.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #285961
      ColorsoftheRainbow
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 559

      Published to YouTube April 13, 2015:

      ✦ ✦ ✦ ✦ ✦

      Published to YouTube August 8, 2016:

      ✦ ✦ ✦ ✦ ✦

      Published to YouTube November 8, 2016:

    • #285962
      sonofspy777
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,100

      The shenanigans leave Virtually NO Doubt, Bernie won Massachusetts, they clearly messed with his huge lead in California,

      One polling station open in the the two largest cities in N Dakota. 1/2 mile long liones with Bernie volunteers bringing

      pizza and smacks to line waiters, closing 500 polling places in Bernie strongholds the day before the primary NEED I GO ON??????

       

      Stockholmer you are espousing neo-liberal policies, which will bring about utter ruin, you have lost the respect I used to have for you.

      The very people Biden is attempting to bring back into power the same ones who fucked us all in 2008. Only Iceland got it right.

      I guess I will ignore any further posts you make as not being worth my time.

      Bernie figured he could do more good ALIVE,
      than dead in a small plane "accident".
      I think he's right.

      Don't you?

      • #285980
        djean111
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 3,913

        Authoritarian, self-congratulatory, shit-stirring, and no reason to believe a word.  Always critical of Bernie – for no constructive reason.   Perhaps still pissy because we all did not jump on the Tulsi bandwagon.  And this is all academic, if taken at face value, anyone can type anything.  and, ya know, not his country.  Don’t see why I would care what he thinks.  That’s why I did not respond, I don’t take him seriously.  Always shit-stirring, lots of hubris.  And so it goes.


        @sonofspy777

        • #286322
          Stockholmer
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 500

          I was never a Tulsi or bust person, you must have me confused with someone else. I rarely have talked about her at all. I think she had almsot zero chance to win from the beginning, although  I also do believe she would have been a good POTUS. People have tried to frame me as some sort of anti-Bernie (my dog, look at me years-long record of blistering Shillary and Biden and DWS and all the rest of the Dummicrat (I coined that term on here years ago, back on the dot org board) establishment shills) all because ages ago I posited that he was making a large structural mistake by falsely self-labelling as democratic socialist (a really loaded term in reactionary America, and one that he has not expressed actual philosophical support for (what is ACTUALLY means), in fact he has on multiple times refuted the core principles of of it) and then he continually conflates social democracy (THAT is what Sanders is, a bog standard social democrat, which is basically my own political stance) with socialism (democratic or otherwise.) It makes no sense electorally to give one’s enemies red-hot self-inflicted ammo like that. US electoral politics are not some uni debating society, where you can score points for trying to redefine 200 year old plus, globally entrenched definitions.

           

      • #285994
        Stockholmer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 500

        You obviously are pretty confused as to the actually definitions of neoliberalism, both the RW Thatcherite type, and the early 1980’s spun-up LW type that became so beloved of third way scum like Clinton and the numpty Blairite rotters.

        I espouse NOTHING in terms of either type. Ludicrous assertion.

      • #286333
        Cold Mountain Trail
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,476

        “Stockholmer you are espousing neo-liberal policies”

        Surprised by that, are you?

         

        • #286344
          Stockholmer
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 500

          BULLSHIT

          I doubt you can even give a coherent and cogent definition of the two main types of neoliberalism

          NEITHER of which have I ever espoused here or on any other board

    • #285985
      The Red Menace
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,080

      I mean 2/3 of delegates are still up for grabs.

      Maybe you ought to spend more time worrying over Sverigedemokraterna in your own country rather than trying to sow despair on JPR.

      • #286003
        Stockholmer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 500

        LOL, SD is not something I am terribly worried about atm. The only way they become any sort of systemic threat is if we were to embark on a suicidal intake scheme again, which, I can assure you, is not in the cards for the Social Dems, nor the Moderates. Jimmie Åkesson has about as much chance of becoming PM as I do. Aslo, unlike the US RW’ers, SD is 0verall a defender of the folkhemmet, they just want to boot out most of the invandrare as a preservation mechanism, and come to that stance from a xenophobic/racist angle.

      • #286334
        Cold Mountain Trail
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,476

        He’s not worried about them at all.

        People like sanders are the type he worries about.

        Why his only reason for being here is to slag sanders.

        • #286342
          Stockholmer
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 500

          you REALLY need to back off with the fucking smears and personal attacks

          I have been a good faith poster hear since dot org days

          you have no right to chase me around the damn board slagging me off

          • #286346
            Cold Mountain Trail
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 8,476

            The only thing you post these days is bullshit attacks on Sanders.

             

            • #286350
              Stockholmer
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 500

              That is patently untrue bollocks. You are violating TOS by chasing me around the board and posting personal attacks. You are falsely trying to gaslight the board into thinking I am some sort of crypto-RWer and agent of attack on Sanders. I have years of solid postings to back up my overall contributions here.

              All I have ever done is engage in a good faith critique of his self-labelling issue. To debate that on a logical, dispassionate level is NOT at all some out of bounds hidden agenda. You are going completely authoritarian in terms of trying to shut down any debate in terms of the merits or demerits of any critique whatsoever simply because you happen to take umbrage with it.

    • #286427
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 3,304

      I think they do, and before discussing further with mods here to ask that posts here be edited as to their attack statements TO others, I’m going to PM two people here…

      As far as TO the awful David Packman, who I stopped listening to long ago, due to his subjective, rather than objective opinion), his analysis is wrong, and I’d stop listening to him (but I already have). Packman’s also indicated that persons (he presumes what – Bernie Bros primarily?) are making anti-semitic remarks about him. That’s wrong, too.

      Choose your words carefully, Ann Landers or Dear Abby said at several points in their career… You may have to eat them someday.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #286462
      Bill Haywood
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 138

      “Ann Landers or Dear Abby” were gentrified reactionary tools of ruling class society and utterly full of shit on every level. They were the voice of the boss and the owners. Any admonitions towards posters calling out this sophist passive-aggressive drivel in no uncertain terms are laughable.

      • #286542
        Mr. Mickeys Mom
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 3,304

        Talk about laughing… I shall hence tear up my Dear Abby/Dear Ann Landers true believer’s membership card, since we all know where this falls.

        Thanks for setting the world straight!

        Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

        • #286860
          Bill Haywood
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 138

          “What was the purpose of this deliberate misrepresentation? It is so self-evident that it suggests itself. The purpose was to sow the seeds of dissension in our ranks; to have it appear that we were divided among ourselves; that we were pitted against each other, to our mutual undoing. But Socialists were not born yesterday. They know how to read capitalist newspapers ; and to believe exactly the opposite of what they read.

          It is true that these are anxious, trying days for us all—testing days for the women and men who are upholding the banner of labor in the struggle of the working class of all the world against the exploiters of all the world; a time in which the weak and cowardly will falter and fail and desert. They lack the fiber to endure the revolutionary test; they fall away; they disappear as if they had never been. On the other hand, they who are animated by the unconquerable spirit of the social revolution; they who have the moral courage to stand erect and assert their convictions; stand by them; fight for them; go to jail or to hell for them, if need be —they are writing their names, in this crucial hour—they are writing their names in faceless letters in the history of mankind.

          If ever I become entirely respectable I shall be quite sure that I have outlived myself.”

          –Eugene Debs

    • #286510
      carrotguy
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 453

      ok I finally watched some of the video.   Sanders has done a few questionable things that do little to improve his image among some people but it’s a mistake to attribute the lackluster outcome to moderate preferences of democratic voters.    Warren’s theft of Bernie’s platform and success with it tell me otherwise.

      Under that premise, starting the video with the claim “you’ll get no hot takes from me here about the DNC stealing it, or establishment stealing it.   The problem is that not enough people wanted Sanders to win” seems to be mostly wrong.    Pakman mentions that the moderate support for Klobuchar and Buttigieg being directed to Biden isn’t stealing votes from Bernie, it’s realizing there is a moderate electorate.    Maybe I’m showing my ignorance here but who funded Buttigieg, Harris, and O’Rourke’s war chests.   Of course they had their own donations but collectively they had like $36m between them.   Isn’t the DNC somehow responsible for that?    My friend that is the definition of being fucked by the establishment.     With so many of these states having open primaries you’ll have a really hard time convincing me that conservatives did not vote for Biden.

      I’ll have to watch the rest of the video, since it might touch on #demexit.   I hope Pakman isn’t speaking against #demexit in the clip.   His statement in the beginning “I get that this will be painful for people to hear” will be right at home when directed to Biden supporters after the general election if Sanders ends up being robbed.    For some reason Pakman mentions that in some states, Sanders’ polling doesn’t improve above 15% until everyone else has dropped out, at which point he polls at ~20%.   That left me with two questions:

      -Why the fuck do we care about Mississippi exactly and

      -Doesn’t this prove that dumbfuck moderates will support Sanders when it counts?

    • #286522
      So Far From Heaven
      Keymaster
      • Total Posts: 5,568

      there may be a thing called disillusionment happening.

      That is why the young don’t vote for the most part.

      “Who fucking cares?”

      “What’s the difference?”

      “They’re going to install the candidate they want, so why even vote for (insert name)?”

      “Shit, why even vote?”

      And we wonder why only a fraction ever vote in the general, much less the primaries. Give people enough reasons to not show up and they ain’t gonna show.

      I don’t need your ‘epic’ vid pontificating useless gibberish to tell me why Bernie lost. The OPINIONS of the speaker have zero to do with reality on the ground. Teach some college classes and talk to the students and you’ll get the truth.

    • #286539
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,913

      IMO, worth paying attention to.  The writer just has a really inflated sense of his/her importance.  And is just being condescending.  Blargh.

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