Why is the left hated around the world?

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  • #231562

    JonLP
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    @jonlp

    It seems like bad conservative policies especially when it comes to economics are treated normal and anyone to the left of them is hated. Even among Democrats in the US they hate anyone to the left of them but make conservatives like Rick Wilson are heroes of the Resistance even though he worked for a third party campaign (which some people hold Nader against Michael Moore even though Krysten Sinema worked for Nader’s campaign but has Joe Manchin level of immunity meaning she can do whatever the hell she wants and we have to fall in line. )

    Also I look at Europe while Jeremy Corbyn seems like a decent person compared to Tony Blair & especially Boris Johnson people in the US think having Jeremy Corbyn is snatching defeat from the Jaws of victory and they say people in Britain hate Jeremy Corbyn (I follow a lot of Corbyn supporters so I have a completely different picture). I do know Labour was very unpopular by the time he took over and he made the party more popular outperforming expectations now people’s expectations are they would have won without Corbyn.

    Boris Johnson said things like this

    Boris Johnson said children of single mothers were ‘ill-raised, ignorant, aggressive and illegitimate’ in newly unearthed column

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/boris-johnson-said-children-of-single-mothers-were-ill-raised-ignorant-aggressive-and-illegitimate-in-newly-unearthed-column/ar-BBXrMTU?ocid=st

    But it is Corbyn that is hated because he happens to be more liberal than they are.

     

  • #231576

    N2Doc
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    @n2doc

    The left is unpopular with the oligarchs and their stooges in Government and the media. And they are the ones controlling the message. Not the 99%

    • #231582

      JonLP
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      @jonlp

      I think you’re right. That was my main guess.

    • #231595

      jwirr
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      @jwirr

      Exactly. And they have hated people politicians since FDR welcomed their hatred. Greed, hatred, bigotry and selfishness have been made acceptable by the rw churches that are run by the 1%. And the 1% own most of the governments of the world. They also own most of the media (message) of the world.

      jwirr

    • #231672

      Yanath
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      @yanath

      @n2doc

      +1

      People, the world over, have been hoodwinked by the corporate media establishment with deceitful propaganda, into believing that they too can be ‘rich’.

  • #231580

    djean111
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    @djean111

    As others have said, because the rich hate the Left, and the rich control the narrative.

    I will not vote for a Vichy Dem. Period. As always, I decide who is a Vichy Dem.

    Bernie's ISSUES or Bust!

  • #231584

    JonLP
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    @jonlp

    I think this Tweet answers some questions.

  • #231597

    RufusTFirefly
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    @rufustfirefly

    That’s what’s so frightening about corporate media. Well-intentioned people unknowingly digest its propaganda day in and day out and then dutifully echo the message under the mistaken impression that they’re expressing their own ideas.

    • #231604

      retired liberal
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      @retiredliberal

      @rufustfirefly
      That is because critical thinking has not been taught in our schools for many decades, generations even. School now is to not question, do as you are told, while teaching to a test designed only to impart the basics of reading, and arithmetic, with a minimum of creative writing. And to indoctrinate, accept what the authorities say/want, with a minimum of questioning or thinking.
      It is working. Most other countries, the people would be in the streets with fire brands and pitch forks by now. US? We’d rather watch Dancing with the Stars, or the Masked Singer.

      We are an arrogant species, believing our fantasy based "facts" are better than the other person's fake facts.

      If you are wrong, it will be because you are not cynical enough.

      Both major political parties are special interest groups enabling each other for power and money, at the expense of the people they no longer properly serve…

      • #231606

        MizzGrizz
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        @mizzgrizz

        The rich people’s control of the narrative is part of it.Another part is that on many occasions people who seem to represent the left in the public mind do things that just doesn’t seem,to ordinary people,to make sense,stuff that gives the left a bad name.

        For instance,the fuss the so called left makes over transgender bathrooms.What’s the big deal?Average working people would rather they discussed a living wage or Medicare For All.

        • #231610

          JonLP
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          @jonlp

          To be honest it is the right wing that makes a big deal about transgender bathrooms. I post at a football message board where there are conservatives and someone brought that up in the context of LGBT bashing. It is like the right wing & immigration. I live in Arizona and it is not a big issue for me, I support immigration reform because the system is screwed up but the Republicans obsess over border enforcement. There are bigger issues like health care but the right wing loves their wedge issues.

  • #231605

    Ohio Barbarian
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    @ohiobarbarian

    It’s traditional. The Left has always represented taking power away from the elite and distributing it more equally among the general population. The elite have always despised, hated, or feared the left, depending on the circumstances. In Western history, this goes at least as far back as ancient Greece, when first their version of the bourgeoisie overthrew the old hereditary aristocracies and set up their own oligarchies, only to be replaced in some cities by genuine democracies.

    In the Roman Republic, there were several revolutions and civil wars between the common people, or plebeians and their sometimes wealthy champions, and the old order, which ultimately triumphed and morphed the Republic into the Empire.

    Even when the Left triumphs, as it did in France and America a few times, there are always people who try to erode and roll back egalitarian changes so they can have more power and control. This struggle has never ended. I don’t think it will ever end so long as humans are humans.

    Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.–Ben Franklin

    We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

    With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #231620

    doh1304
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    @doh1304

    Everyone is forgetting the biggest part – fascists claiming to be “liberals” lying and betraying the people time and time again.

    • #231652

      Cold Mountain Trail
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      @coldmountaintrail

      you got it @doh1304 +++++

    • #232069

      Ohio Barbarian
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      @ohiobarbarian

      And then there’s that. @doh1304

      Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, because both believe in advancing corporate interests through the power of the state. —Benito Mussolini

      Anyone who makes laws intended to advance the interests of corporations and the wealthy over those of the working class is technically a Fascist by Mussolini’s definition, and he was an expert on the subject. Harsh criminal penalties applied mostly to the working class and minority groups are another telltale sign of Fascism.

      Which is why I call the Joe Bidens of America Vichy Democrats. They are Fascists, too; they just have a different ephemeral style.

       

       

      We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

      With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

  • #231646

    salemcourt
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    @salemcourt

    97% of the MSM endorsed Hillary and also called her progressive.  But the common people knew that she was a corrupt politician who will do the bidding of the oligarchs, MIC, and the banks.  So they have conflated the left with supporting these policies. However, people are starting to realize that the MSM is the primary enemy of the people and they are the propaganda tool of the oligarchs.  So, when they oppose Bernie, OAC, Warren, and other progressives,  saying they are too left, their support is actually going up.

  • #231674

    jerry611
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    @jerry611

    A simplistic answer is that conservatives want to maintain status-quos, stability, and maintain cultural traditions and purity. Liberals want to change things. Obviously there is more to it than that…but that’s broken down into a very generalized view.

    There have been psychology studies of the brain on political differences and thinking patterns. And they have found some very clear differences. For example, conservatives tend to have more neural activity in the right amygdala. This is an area believed to house emotions dealing with fear. Therefore the idea is that if you cause people to fear unsafe or instability, it will lead to more conservative thinking. They begin to gravitate more towards authoritarianism.

    This is a reason the left may trigger feelings of fear and those who’s brain is sensitive to fear will react by going right. Most of the time the left uses language that attacks the stability of established systems and hierarchies which may trigger feelings of fear. Thus they start to fight against that proposed change.

    Conservatives fear immigrants and become xenophobic because they feel those new people are going to change their culture or change the current way of life. This is how Trump got elected. He scared his voters. And the Democrats played right into his hands….and still are. The left-wing tends to poke a stick at this fear rather stupidly more often than not. It’s also why I highly disagree with the language and rhetoric around the concept of “white privilege.” I don’t necessarily disagree with the concept, but the way it is always presented is highly antagonistic. Language matters. The way you say something can put people on a defensive footing and force their heels to dig in deeper. Change will then become even harder to achieve. Many on the left can’t seem to understand that.

    • #231680

      Cold Mountain Trail
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      @coldmountaintrail

      “but the way it is always presented is highly antagonistic. Language matters. The way you say something can put people on a defensive footing and force their heels to dig in deeper.”

      agree with you there @jerry611   In fact, people digging in their heels harder seems to be the most immediate results of antagonistic presentation — on all sides of issues.

      people turn off & shut down & continue to believe what they believe without hearing other POVs.

      And I’m quite sure the ptb know that, and weaponize it in various ways, since they fund the research!

      It’s why heavy political discussions are banned from holiday tables….

    • #232062

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      Language matters, and also American version of liberalism – classical liberalism with some welfare state elements –  is fully committed to capitalism and in that sense conservative project to protect the status quo.

       

      Conservatives fear immigrants and become xenophobic because they feel those new people are going to change their culture or change the current way of life.

       

      It is true that cultural conservatism is linked to xenophobia, local communities resisting external pressure to change local customs. Working class resistance to immigration is also economic and dictated by their conservative acceptance of state capitalism, they don’t want immigrants to compete on local labor market which results in getting less crumbs from capitalist table.

      The progressive approach to this is socialist internationalism and/or altermundialism, globalization based on global class solidarity, equality of all peoples regardless of their nationality.

      Aloha!

  • #231723

    bazukhov
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    @bazukhov

    “ Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

    John Steinbeck

    Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

  • #231725

    chknltl
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    @chknltl

    Back in my college years I used to be what is called a dungeon master (DM) in the game called Dungeons and Dragons.

    I learned pretty quick that when I passed out the “trinkets”, (magical wands, enchanted swords, rings that made you invisible and etc)., I was the ‘good’ DM.

    The players were quite reluctant to give these trinkets up, something I always found ways to make them do in latter game sessions at which point I became the ‘bad’ DM.

    The DM giveth and the DM taketh away made for interesting games, especially with my college girlfriend who was one of the players. (She often made a point of not letting me hear the end of it!)

    Because we live in a capitalist meritocracy, folks are quite protective of what they have earned and what they expect to earn.

    For this reason, imo, we on the left are seen as “the ones trying to take away the trinkets”.

    “Who is going to pay?”, is a question I get often asked. “No way in hell am I giving up what I earned for your hairbrained socialism!”  I’ve been told.

    In one case where I pointed out that our VA medical bennies are a form of socialism-socialism I wanted everyone in the U.S. to enjoy, I was angrily informed that, “I risked my life to EARN those benifits!”  (This from an airforce mechanic who never got close to serving in a warzone.)

    This same person let me know that our socialist libraries and fire departments were merely “infrastructure” and therefore “no different than our roads and highways.”

    (um…ok…so why can’t our bodies be infrastructure too then? What is more important the bridge or the person about to fall off the bridge?)

    My point is that folks and especially folks on the right tend to believe that things as they know it will always be the same.

    They are unafraid of natural disaster affecting their personal status quo.

    In other words there is no DM making their lives “interesting” for them, they are quite comfortable with what they have or expect to get.

    OTOH, they see us on the left as wanting to affect their personal status quo in that they believe we are the ones who want to take away their stuff in order to benifit those who have not “earned” that stuff.

    For example: that ex-airforce mechanic above is a hard core right winger.

    He sorta got my ire up when he tried to start an argument with me by offering this “solution” to the worlds problems:

    “Instead of “stealing” from the rest of us, you guys on the left should pay for fixing everything and see how that works out for you.”

    What he misses out on is this metaphore: We on the left and on the right are all brother explorers in the same dungeon.

    If we work together we can all make it out alive with a goodly amount of trinkets.

    Currently we are deep in that dungeon, our position is being overrun by our true enemy (capitalism)….

    If we choose unwisely to fight among ourselves we will be unable to defend our position.

    If that happens, nobody winds up with the trinkets because nobody makes it out alive.

    I hope by using metaphor I have described why I see the left as percieved to be the bad guys.

    Despite the media, i suggest that it is on us to dangle those trinkets out for the players to want.

    I have seen plenty of charts here at JPR that show how M4A will benifit our society, we know that free schooling will be a tremendous boon to our society as well because the G.I. Bill richly demonstrated that.

    Cheap affordable pharmaceuticals, renewable energy allthese ‘trinkets’ and more are within our grasp!

    It is these charts-these stories that need to be dangled like baubles before our society.

    Again,  the media will not do this for us ….this is strictly on us.

    Just my opinion.

  • #231739

    RufusTFirefly
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    @rufustfirefly

    Great quote, @bazukhov

    Unfortunately, Steinbeck never actually wrote or said that. The closest he came to doing so was in a 1960 article for Esquire, in which he wrote:

    “I guess the trouble was that we didn’t have any self-admitted proletarians. Everyone was a temporarily embarrassed capitalist. Maybe the Communists so closely questioned by the investigation committees were a danger to America, but the ones I knew — at least they claimed to be Communists — couldn’t have disrupted a Sunday-school picnic. Besides they were too busy fighting among themselves.”

    The source of the confusion is probably Ronald Wright, author of A Short History of Progress (2004), who wrote:

    “John Steinbeck once said that socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.”

    By the way, here’s my favorite real Steinbeck quote. It’s from Cannery Row (Ch. 23):

    “It has always seemed strange to me,” said Doc. “The things we admire in
    men, kindness and generosity, openness, honesty, understanding and feeling
    are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest,
    sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meanness, egotism and self-interest are
    the traits of success.”

    • #231766

      bazukhov
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      @bazukhov

      You’re probably right but I consider the quote all too apt in describing Americans and their dreams of becoming rich.

      Steinbeck often compared Communism and Communists to religion and religious fanatics in his novels.   Rigid and humorless True Believers who could dismiss any crime as justified for “the cause”.

       

       

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

  • #231740

    Cold Mountain Trail
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    @coldmountaintrail

    If we choose unwisely to fight among ourselves we will be unable to defend our position.  If that happens, nobody winds up with the trinkets because nobody makes it out alive.

    I hope by using metaphor I have described why I see the left as percieved to be the bad guys.  Despite the media, i suggest that it is on us to dangle those trinkets out for the players to want.”

    Nice @chknltl

  • #231758

    The Red Menace
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    @twilightsporkle

    Fascists recruit with fourteen words, and is generally willing to take in and educate anyone who’s interested, even “ironically.” Fascism is also a philosophy that is very comfortable to people who have lots of money, and people who hold centrism as their political heading (since the driving goal of centrism is maintaining the status and prestige of a given centrist, more than anything.)

    The left recruits with a mandatory reading list spanning 250 years, ten languages, and multiple exams. “Have you read Hegel? Have you read Bakunin? Have you read Kropotkin? You can’t really understand these things unless you’ve read Kropotkin.” It gatekeeps on these bases (among others) and has little interest in recruiting or educating people who are interested unless they can demonstrate literacy in all these “core works.”

    The left is hated because Fascists hate leftists and fascists are better at recruiting.

     

  • #232010

    sadoldgirl
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    @sadoldgirl

    The problem I have with this question is that therein is

    no definition of Right or Left. To Fox CNN is left; to the

    Danish people our Democrats are Right wing. What does

    Left or Right mean to Russians or to the Chinese? I don’t

    know.

    The question I ask myself is: Why is egalitarianism so

    despised in the US? There are clear answers to it. From

    the cradle until the end Americans are taught that

    individual freedom is more important than their

    community. They are indoctrinated with their “exceptionalism”,

    with their “equal under the law”,with a clear calvinistic view, which

    has lead to the righteousness of the evangelicals. At the same time

    they don’t realize that homo sapiens is a social animal, who cannot

    survive alone. They don’t admit their indoctrination and the falsehood

    about equal justice. They have to feel superior to others, which gives

    them some self-satisfaction. These are just some of the reasons, imo.

    • #232066

      Voltairine
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      @voltairine

      Equality of access vs. equality of outcome is how the discussion is nowadays often defined. The common sense solution to that debate is equality of access with good social safety net, a good mixture of negative and positive freedoms.

      There is very big difference between libertarian decentralized communities, which are radically egalitarian, and centralized power hierarchy of mass society – which means class society and antithesis of egalitarianism. The urban proletariat, which is product of capitalist mass society and centralized capitalist ownership, have hard time understanding that the mixture of rural conservatism and libertarianism still essentially remains Luddite rejection of industrialized and capitalized mass society as a whole. Their ideal way of life is small scale egalitarian communalism and small scale independent production without systemic humiliation of wage slavery.

      The kind of “Left” that is most despised is the urban professional managerial class, the scribes of centralized mass society that cook the books for their own benefit, to rob the productive classes to the ruling class of urban consumers.

      The Luddite pre-industrialized and even pre-civilized egalitarianism of independent production and voluntary co-operation vs. proletarian begging for more crumbs from the capitalist table in the name of “equality of outcome” is essentially scaling problem.

      How to scale up radical egalitarianism of small communities to mass society and to keep the win-win aspects of mass cooperation without the centralized class society of bureaucratic alienation and oppression, and all the psychopathology of pecking order etc. that comes with it? Blockchain revolution offers practically feasible solution to this problem which is as old as civilization.

      Aloha!

      • #232075

        sadoldgirl
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        @sadoldgirl

        @voltairine:

        wished someone could explain to this old woman what

        this blockchain revolution is.

        What I find so peculiar that while many think that the

        French Revolution was a great step forward, here there

        is only the freedom motto mentioned, not l’egalite nor

        fraternite.

        • #232077

          Ohio Barbarian
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          @ohiobarbarian

          @sadoldgirl No equality, either. Anarchy only offers “freedom.” Without legality and fraternity, there can be no equality, but anarchists don’t like the authority necessary to provide that legality, so they don’t mention it.

          We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

          With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

          • #232098

            Voltairine
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            @voltairine

            l’egalite is french for equality, not legality.

            Authority can’t offer you equality. If you give that a little thought, you might realize why…

            As for fraternity, my ontological basis for anarchy is that empathy is the most fundamental level of being, and anarchy is the way of opening our hearts, removing the tribal, nationalist, and class society empathy barriers that close our hearts to others. People who live or have lived as part of anarchic aka egalitarian small communities without institutional power hierarchy know by heart  that if a member of a community is not feeling well, the whole community is not feeling well.

            Violent coercion by central government is the opposite of fraternity and equality as well as liberty. Anarchy is realization that those three are inseparable.

            Aloha!

        • #232096

          Voltairine
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          @voltairine

          Blockchain is a math tool that makes it possible to organize mass cooperation win-win games without class society. Class society is essentially ruling class or scribes doing the math to organize mass cooperation. Math is bad master but can be a good servant. The potential of blockchain is to make math a good servant of humanity, instead of bad master.

          Blockchain allows to share our data without central authority being able to cook the books. Integrity of data.

          Aloha!

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