Why Tourism Should Die

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  • #257232

    Cold Mountain Trail
    Member
    • Total Posts: 5,963
    @coldmountaintrail

    The New York Times’ recent Travel package “52 Places to Go in 2020…” is the annual feature meant to draw visitors to heretofore-neglected world gems. Far more apparent in this year’s roundup, however, was the running theme of “responsible tourism.” Words like “sustainability,” “green,” and “conservation” were shoved into every other euphoric blurb like the last pair of shoes jammed into a suitcase already bursting at its zippers. In Sicily, grassroots groups have pledged to use less plastic. In Uganda, proceeds from gorilla trekking permits go toward conservation efforts. Read the piece front to back and you might conclude the entire planet has morphed into one giant, eco-friendly playground, with new nonstop service to Ulaanbaatar and Lima making access easier than ever.

    It’s all bullshit, of course... A 2018 study published in the journal Nature Climate Change announced tourism alone—that’s nonessential pleasure travel—is responsible for 8 percent of global greenhouse gas emissions… But these aren’t bad people promoting travel. It’s just that they’re engaged in the impossible task of reconciling international tourism with a genuine desire to neutralize tourism’s impact on climate change. The trouble is these concepts are incompatible. Telling people to “be thoughtful about lodging” and “mind what you eat”—two Earth-saving tips from that Washington Post story—is like trying to sober up by switching from gin to beer…

    All motorized transport is a problem—cruise ships generate 21,000 gallons of sewage per day, much of it flushed into the ocean—but the primary offenders are airplanes. According to U.K.-based Earth Changers, another outfit dedicated to “sustainable tourism,” aviation emissions account for 3.2 percent of total global carbon emissions. That figure could rise to 12 percent by 2050.

    Perhaps even more troubling, the 2018 study pinning 8 percent of global carbon emissions on tourism relied on data collected between 2009 and 2013. It’s already badly out of date…

    https://newrepublic.com/article/156307/tourism-dieand-wont

     

  • #257242

    GZeusH
    Member
    • Total Posts: 1,895
    @gzeush

    What’s really bad is when two travellers are taking their honeymoon and decide that this would be the right time to procreate.  Then they do the worst possible thing for greenhouse gas emissions, they add another planet nibbler to the world’s population.

    • #257246

      ThouArtThat
      Member
      • Total Posts: 2,027
      @thouartthat

      @gzeush

      Hi zeus,

      Spot on!

      TAT

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
      - George Orwell

      "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
      Rather than truth as the authority."
      - Gerald Massey

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  • #257245

    ThouArtThat
    Member
    • Total Posts: 2,027
    @thouartthat

    @coldmountaintrail

    Hi cmt,

    Agree completely.  It ‘s all part of the myth that humanity can grow without bounds and limits forever without consequences.   We already use 1.6 earths worth of resources as it is.  And yet, we work overtime finding ways to consume ever more.  And the capitalists are all too happy to oblige these travel impulses.  CO2, who cares?  Threatening wildlife, who cares?  When all this ends, as it must.  It will not end well.

    TAT

    "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
    - John F. Kennedy

    "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
    - George Orwell

    "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
    Rather than truth as the authority."
    - Gerald Massey

    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
    - Jiddu Krishnamurti

    • #257259

      The Red Menace
      Member
      • Total Posts: 858
      @twilightsporkle

      Humanity CAN grow to an extremely hefty population. We could easily fit about 12 billion of us on this planet.

      The problem is when all 12 billion of them are trying to have that Americna lifestyle; seven thousand calories a day, a car for everyone in the household, a new iPhone every six months, world travel by plane, all of it powered ultimately through roasting coal and dead algae.

      This is why it’s bullshit when people claim “overpopulation” is the problem. There’s something fucking grotesque about a sausage-y finger being waved at an Indian family having “too many kids”, when the finger belongs to a single fatass American hyper-consumer whose individual footprint is quadruple that of the entire town that family lives in. “overpopulation” is fine (at least in the big picture, locally it still causes problems with disease and food stresses) but overconsumption is what’s killing everyone.

      • #257271

        ThouArtThat
        Member
        • Total Posts: 2,027
        @thouartthat

        @twilightsporkle

        Hi menace,

        As has been posted many times, the culprits for CO2 growth are well known.

        What that chart reflects is the wealthiest world citizens and their actions to over consume the planet.  This includes tourism.

        Source: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/02/worlds-richest-10-produce-half-of-global-carbon-emissions-says-oxfam

        TAT

        "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
        - John F. Kennedy

        "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
        - George Orwell

        "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
        Rather than truth as the authority."
        - Gerald Massey

        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
        - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      • #257331

        closeupready
        Member
        • Total Posts: 1,003
        @closeupready

        @twilightsporkle – thank you.  been saying that for years.

        The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #257332

        GZeusH
        Member
        • Total Posts: 1,895
        @gzeush

        NO. Just plain no. The Earth was stretched to its limit with 1.2 billion in the early 1800s, at the very start of the CO2 emitting orgy known as the Industrial Revolution.  Despite what is implied in TAT’s champagne glass figure,  poor people living miserable lives in third world countries DO tax the Earth’s resources.  It wasn’t Hollywood jet-setters flying around the world that caused Africa’s big game populations to crash.  A relatively small number of people living in the Hamptons having a clambake is not what caused the ocean’s fisheries to collapse.   It wasn’t the rich robber barons of the 1800s that eradicated the billions of passenger pigeons that used to darken the skies.   Poor people nibbling at the planet is not something you can ignore.  As much CO2 as Leonardo DiCaprio emits flying around wringing his hands about climate change, a lowly paid worker in Brazil setting fire to the Amazon probably emits more.

        Consider that 99.9% of the great apes on the planet are human.  Isn’t that a bit out of balance?  Haven’t humans been too reproductively successful? If the human population was 75 million, 1% of what it is now, then there might be some room for the other great apes.

        • #257361

          The Red Menace
          Member
          • Total Posts: 858
          @twilightsporkle

          It wasn’t Hollywood jet-setters flying around the world that caused Africa’s big game populations to crash.

          No, it was a demand for ivory and horn and “exotic” pelts from wealthy people in wealthy nations, combined with a thirst for big game hunting to “prove” your testosterone levels among white dudes in pith helmets.

          A relatively small number of people living in the Hamptons having a clambake is not what caused the ocean’s fisheries to collapse.

          Depends – are the people having the clambake the CEOs of Maruha Nichiro, Trident Seafoods, or Nestlé Purina Petcare? I want you to think for a moment about how much sea life dies and is utterly wasted, so your cat can have a disk of “ocean whitefish dinner”

          It wasn’t the rich robber barons of the 1800s that eradicated the billions of passenger pigeons that used to darken the skies

          You mean the barons who literally paid hordes of people to go out and blast the flocks with flack cannons do that the pigeons could be sent to canneries those barons owned? Whose industries massively deforested the continent east of the Mississippi? Was it poor subsistence farmers who were importing all that european chestnut for fancy furniture, (inadvertently) introducing the blight that wiped out the primary food source for said pigeons?

           As much CO2 as Leonardo DiCaprio emits flying around wringing his hands about climate change, a lowly paid worker in Brazil setting fire to the Amazon probably emits more.

          Leo’s having the beef during his flight. So is his entourage. Then he lands. Gets driven around. Has fancy dinners with lots of other people who just flew in and drove around and had the beef dinner. They all check their thousand-plus-dollar watches, full of gold and silver and diamonds – and for the less stylish, more tech-minded of the bunch, rare earth minerals – Oh, it’s time for the event. Their bellies full from a single meal that would feed a brazilian farmer for a day, they clamber on stage, and bathed in light powered by a distant coal-burning power plant, they each take half an hour giving a dissertation on how that poor brown bastard burning some bushes is the biggest bastard in the world, and must be stopped. Applause. it’s time for dessert. The checks are written, thousands, tens of thousands of dollars, most of it from people whose hands are elbows-deep in investment in energy, travel, and cat food companies. All agree – they’re the good ones, it’s that worthless brown subhuman near the equator who’s the problem.

           

          It’s our lifestyles in the first world, our massive hunger for resources, so we can have prestige, and status, and idle comforts, and display our wealth so conspicuously to one another, that is drowning this planet. I understand it makes you uncomfortable, it makes me uncomfortable too, especially as you and I, even though we’re definitely participants in the problem, have no real strength to halt it.

          But to ignore that and go “it’s those people, those lessers, those poors, those browns, who are ruining it all! THEY NEED TO STOP BREEDING!” that… well that’s just some fucking nasty eugenics shit, isn’t it?

          • #257449

            Cold Mountain Trail
            Member
            • Total Posts: 5,963
            @coldmountaintrail

            “But to ignore that and go “it’s those people, those lessers, those poors, those browns, who are ruining it all! THEY NEED TO STOP BREEDING!” that… well that’s just some fucking nasty eugenics shit, isn’t it?”

            +++++

             

          • #257508

            GZeusH
            Member
            • Total Posts: 1,895
            @gzeush

            You make some obtuse points that ignore the fact that rich people can’t sell billions of pounds of passenger pigeon, canned tuna or canned cat food unless there are billions of people to buy it and eat it.   If these top 1% consumers were to disappear overnight, there would still be 100+ million Japanese trawling the oceans, and similar numbers of Brazilians burning down the Amazon, Africans chowing down on “bush meat”, and Chinese eating anything that is alive.   To get the population down to 75 million, EVERYONE is going to have to cut down on breeding, no matter what continent, no matter what skin color, no matter what economic status.

      • #257660

        mindpilot
        Member
        • Total Posts: 267
        @mindpilot

        Man there are a bunch of hyperbolic strawmen in this thread. 7000 calories a day?! Middle class Americans jet-setting around the globe? Seriously? Most Americans don’t even have passports. Lack of travel and contact with other cultures is part of what produces the ignorant pieces of albino shit we call Trump voters.

        You want to make a big dent in air travel? Cut back on business travel which from my perspective is most of what I see. Not unusual for me to be told I need to be on the other coast by tomorrow morning. Or people in remote locations fly in to the HQ twice a month to attend a meeting that could easily be a VC. I’ll bet half the people on any given flight are there earning a living.

        And then there is the military.

        Slavery was the legal fiction that people can be property.
        Corporatism is the legal fiction that property can be people.

        "If you believe in god, I'm probably smarter than you." -- Tom Leykis

  • #257262

    Mr. Mickeys Mom
    Moderator
    • Total Posts: 2,046
    @mrmickeysmom

    Let’s build renewable energy travel and have a race as to who can do it the best. We’re all winners in the end,.

    Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #257272

      ThouArtThat
      Member
      • Total Posts: 2,027
      @thouartthat

      @mrmickeysmom

      Hi mmm,

      Great sentiment.  However, renewable energy won’t support commercial jet travel.

      Without commercial jet travel, few will have enough time to take the slow boat to China or anywhere else now served by overseas jets.

      TAT

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
      - George Orwell

      "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
      Rather than truth as the authority."
      - Gerald Massey

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      • #257379

        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 9,971
        @ohiobarbarian

        @thouartthat I can’t even afford to fly to San Antonio, where I grew up, anymore. Haven’t for years. I have to agree with you on this one, commercial air travel using fossil fuels has got to go. Since there’s nothing flying right now that doesn’t use fossil fuels, that’s pretty much it.

        I suppose they could bring back zeppelins and power them with something else; I don’t know.

        As for overseas travel, I’d love to sail across the Atlantic, sort of bond with my ancestors, you know.

        We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

        With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

        • #257388

          ThouArtThat
          Member
          • Total Posts: 2,027
          @thouartthat

          @ohiobarbarian
          @mrmickeysmom

          Hi ob,

          Both you and mmm make some very good points about travel.  Yes, we can have alternate and less damaging methods for moving around the planet to include modes of travel like sailing ships and  zeppelins.  History teaches us that those modes of travel had essentially two classes: first class and steerage: abundant opulence or miserable crowding.  For those in first class, they were wealthy enough that travel time never mattered.  For those in steerage they were so poor that travel time never mattered as well.  With respect to today, the observation is simply that high-speed travel represented by commercial jets will become a thing of the past and with it globe-trotting jaunts by what we call the middle class.  Future forms of travel will not support the speed necessary for middle class citizens to maintain a full-time job and go places within their allotted two weeks vacation time.  For all but the very, very wealthy, travel will again become a luxury and for everyone else very local.

          TAT

          PS – Just consider that when Greta sailed from New York to Spain this past November, the trip took almost three weeks due to unfavorable winds.  And she was on a moderately fast high-tech cruising catamaran.  When the last of those sailboats go out of service there won’t be any more because they are all made from fiberglass and carbon composites manufactured with Fossil Fuels.  And until they do it will be interesting to observe a typical wage slave negotiating their vacation schedule – well it might be three weeks or two months – all depends on El Nino winds.  The boss answers swiftly – not approved.

          "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
          - John F. Kennedy

          "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
          - George Orwell

          "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
          Rather than truth as the authority."
          - Gerald Massey

          "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
          - Jiddu Krishnamurti

          • #257389

            Ohio Barbarian
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 9,971
            @ohiobarbarian

            @thouartthat Screw it. Let’s just invent teleportation of some sort and Move On(pun intended).

            We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob.--Franklin Delano Roosevelt

            With Bernie Sanders, we have the receipts. --Nina Turner

          • #257484

            Mr. Mickeys Mom
            Moderator
            • Total Posts: 2,046
            @mrmickeysmom

            @thouartthat… I like to think outside the box on how boats can be made, too. The trick is to match the elasticity of the resin with the fabric used for these big catamerans. How about using glass for this? Frankly, it isn’t particularly costly.

            We have big brains out there in science land. I just know it.

            Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

  • #257284

    Fugitive Birdie
    Member
    • Total Posts: 119
    @fugitivebirdie

    Interesting.

    I think we waste far more energy going to work every day, and depriving each other of knowing people and culture in far off places doesn’t make sense.

    We could flip this on its head…

    … and live anywhere in the world we want but commute to work using fiber Internet, video conferencing and/or virtual reality.

     

    • #257391

      ThouArtThat
      Member
      • Total Posts: 2,027
      @thouartthat

      @fugitivebirdie

      Hi fb,

      All very high-techy and makes the assumption that globe spanning fiber optic cables will be with us forever.  Sadly that will not be the case because maintaining those fiber optic cables requires tremendous amounts of Fossil Fuel – they don’t last forever even today.  Slowly over time the world will once again become larger in that far off places will become far off places again.  The following video underscores how Fossil Fuel intensive the manufacture, installation and maintenance of global Internet fiber optic cables truly are.  All will become a thing of the past as the Fossil Fuels dry up.

      TAT

       

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "In a Time of Universal Deceit - Telling the Truth Is a Revolutionary Act."
      - George Orwell

      "They must find it difficult ... Those who have taken authority as the truth,
      Rather than truth as the authority."
      - Gerald Massey

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

  • #257311

    Pam2
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 4,213
    @pam2
  • #257372

    ravensong
    Donor
    • Total Posts: 1,473
    @ravensong

    Rich people are totally fucking up all the best and most beautiful places in the world.

    Never tell anyone about your secret fishin’ holes.

    Promote Freedom From Religion, and Separation of Church and State.

    See how much you will pay for Healthcare under Bernie Sanders Medicare for All plan:
    https://www.mfacalc.com/
    Together, together, my friends, we have begun a political revolution to transform America, and that revolution, our revolution, continues! ~ Bernie

    • #257410

      The Red Menace
      Member
      • Total Posts: 858
      @twilightsporkle

      it sure wasn’t Thai fisherman who turned Maya Bay into a heap of dead coral and discarded water bottles, contrary to what some posters would say.

    • #257434

      closeupready
      Member
      • Total Posts: 1,003
      @closeupready

      “never tell anyone about your secret fishing holes” – a-yup.  learned that the hard way.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

  • #257498

    bazukhov
    Member
    • Total Posts: 2,041
    @bazukhov

    Especially by those folks dressed in chic camouflage and carrying guns as a fashion statements.   You know, the ones keeping us “safe” from the eternal bogymen.

    Why, we could even find them something productive to do, for a change, with the money saved and they could buy their own fashions and become less damaging tourists.

    Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

  • #257667

    Stockholmer
    Member
    • Total Posts: 298
    @stockholmer

    Hard pass.

    Navel-gazing provincialism and lack of contact via physical, in situ, wanderings and interactions with other societies leads to Trumpian dystopian nightmares.

    Also, it is a dodgy myth that one needs to be a posh toff to see a lot of the world, far removed from the borders of one’s particular nation state.

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