Will Trump let go of power?

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    • #331577
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 2,406

      I know that some immediately think “Well, they always have before – even Bush did – why not?  How can he hold on to it?”  Granted, that is a consideration I have had myself.  There are flaws in that logic though.  Chief among them (in my opinion) is that in the many years before, Presidential power has been more limited.  It was often said that a President was not a King, that he had no magic wand.  Yet, consider the Obama administration’s war in Libya – they might not have called it a war, but a war it was.  He/it did not require congressional approval – and to the extent of my knowledge never got it.  Instead, what we saw was a constant media barrage of the evil villain leading that Country, poor people holding up signs begging America/the UN for aid – and so on and so forth.  The cost was not really considered – and the U.S. still had enough respect throughout much of Europe, at least, to gain limited UN support.  There is much else that could be considered, the Patriot Act, the National Defense Authorization Act, drone assassinations, even of Americans, without any kind of due process.

      The President may not be called a King – but like such rulers of the past, that seat of power is growing ever more firmly entrenched.  I can’t even begin to list all of the things that the Trump administration has done that in years before would have been considered highly unlikely.  Particularly the elimination of environmental protections, but we also have the complete restructuring of the federal court system – and conservative judges that will hold the reins of power over such for decades to come.  That is how you change the laws – or at least alter how they are understood and/or enforced.

      The DOJ, whatever its original intent, is more and more controlled by the President and his administration.  The Senate, particularly with McConnell at the helm, can block pretty much any legislation pushed by the left.  That is the current state of affairs.  While there has been some pushback, Trump still has control over most of the military.  His sympathies, as we know, lie with white supremacists, with conservative extremists – even those that proudly wear or wave swatstikas or confederate flags.  While, again, there is some pushback – most of the wealthy (particularly the very wealthy) also support Trump, even if not openly.  He has given them massive tax breaks, even free money in the hundreds of billions of dollars they have scammed out of the American populace.

      Or, consider the pandemic.  In years gone by, I would never have imagined it could become as bad as it did.  Surely no one this incompetent could have gained the Presidency!  If they had, why, checks and balances!  Someone would have done something!  Hmm.  Whoops.  Guess not.  It is not merely his rhetoric, his racism, his narcissism and so on and so forth – those are merely among his personal flaws.  It is in all of those that whole-heartedly support him, knowing what he is – so many of whom have never had the opportunity to read history books, or to learn from the many, many examples of what happens when the likes of Trump come to power.

      He hasn’t completely had his way.  The military and police were not quite as brutal as he wished them to be.  Given the option, he would have indeed had them shoot the protestors for making too much noise.  Given the option, he will indeed sue – and if he can – imprison anyone who resists him too successfully.  This has been demonstrated many times by now.

      Are the lights on upstairs?  Is Trump stupid and crazy?  No to the former – probably to the latter.  He is also someone who has much experience with appealing to crowds, even on National television.  Much like Reagan, he has a “certain something” that just draws all the crazy in.  So who ever he is in his heart of hearts is largely irrelevant – there is almost certainly a script, even for the likes of him.  He seems to be breaking with it more frequently these days (in particular with all the crazy shit he says) and that is when there is a little pushback from some republicans.  Yet the people he surrounds himself with are the worst of the swamp creatures.  Bolton in particular, who is frankly one of the most obvious examples of evil in today’s modern world – got a damn storm of media coverage for writing a book that criticized him.  Even good old GWB is getting praise for criticizing Trump.  Never mind that that criticism will ultimately accomplish nothing – or that Trump merely takes their own policies and ideology as far as they wish they could.

      How does he get away with all he does?  Well, there is the matter, of course, of the ineffective resistance from the democrats.  Even the impeachment, such as it was, was about some fucking business with the Ukraine – never mind financial corruption, money laundering, much more obviously criminal endeavors in which he has been involved.  No, somehow its all about his relationship with Putin and how he apparently works for the Russian leader of state.

      Let us say that, as expected, Biden defeats him in the general election in November.  This is assuming that there actually is an election, whether in public or via mail in voting… seems to me that if the pandemic isn’t better controlled by then, a public one is just begging for dystopia.  Say it happens though, one way or another.  Can the military – or will the military – actually resist the President if he attempts to hold on to power?  Perhaps it will be by declaring martial law, or using some poorly understood legislation that is hundreds or thousands of pages long – that no one really ever read anyway, but has all the tools to make one untouchable for the duration of a crisis.  Seems to me, we are in a considerable crisis.

      Let us assume he DOES ultimately do the bidding of Vladimir Putin (I do not think so, but for the sake of argument) – would Putin be willing, perhaps even eager, to raise the stakes?  Let’s say the growing threat of a war with Russia, or even some kind of strike… after which, the President might very well have or gain the authority to declare martial law.  Can it happen?  I would have said no… during the Obama years and the Bush years.  Now, I really don’t know.  I have no clue what provisions may or may not be included within the NDAA, for example, or various other legislation that none of the god damn elected officials ever bothered to read.

      The democrats, indeed, might be giving Trump (assuming any of the Russia conspiracies hold any water at all) just what he needs to hold on to power… “The Russians are coming!”  Well, no, they aren’t, but the media certainly portrays it as such.  Will he use it?  Will his administration use it?  Or – is the pandemic, in fact, being deliberately permitted to spread to such an extent that the disaster will enable a grasp for power that would have been impossible before?  How many would answer the President’s call if he called the Country to arms to support him?  How many would oppose?  Oh, we had some retired generals, former joint chiefs of staff – and even fewer current ones who denounced him over the whole shooting protesters thing… but the majority?

      This all assumes, of course, that the vote is not otherwise rigged to guarantee a Trump or Biden victory.  It could be that the real power is not the Presidency – that there are billionaires that determine what happens next.  Which one are they more likely to support?  All I can say is that it does not look good for the rest of us.  Even if Trump leaves willingly, somehow I do not expect his followers, who see him as some kind of messiah, are going to just go about their lives as usual.

      I think a war is coming, one way or another.

    • #331611
      • Total Posts: 1,465

      Yes, he will.  If he were to lose this November, he won’t have much to stand on.

      If he were to win this November, he’ll go off in 4 years.

      However, I agree with you at the end.  Even with Biden, with them shoehorning him in like this.  It was basically to prolong an unsustainable status quo.

      These folks are repressing the people so much and making the conditions so bad that it is getting closer and closer to a revolt.

    • #331612
      • Total Posts: 1,884

      ..if he is defeated.As an ex president he will have none of the headaches he has now plus an unlimited opportunity to show off.

    • #331618
      • Total Posts: 3,934

      Trump would just leave, again IMO.  That’s  hair-on-fire talk.  The Freepers were convinced Obama would not leave.

      But yes, the real power is not the presidency.  It is the MIC, the entrenched intelligence agencies, Wall Street, the banks, the .1%.  And politicians like Pelosi serve the real power no matter who is president.  The Vichy Dems block the legislation from progressives and cooperate with the GOP..

    • #331621
      • Total Posts: 1,884

      Presidents come and presidents go,but the system consensus remains.

    • #331622
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 2,406

      Or, we might be in for quite a surprise.  There is apparently a dangerous new virus in China, while tensions and pissing contests in the Pacific are ongoing.  There is the (real or imagined) threat of war with Russia, particularly given the media sympathies.

      Then, of course, there is the potential for covid19 to get a whole lot worse.  Or genuine revolt/civil war such as has not been seen in over a century.

      I am not saying he will remain, just asking the question.  Are there enough checks and balances to prevent such a thing?  Are there enough people in positions of power with the will and the means to stop him?

    • #331628
      • Total Posts: 3,934

      And yes, there are checks and balances, I sincerely doubt Trump would even want to do that, but again, my hair will only be on fire due to the thought of Biden/Vichy Dem having free rein to inflict austerity and war on us all.  And, IMO, that is what would happen.

    • #331634
      Ohio Barbarian
      • Total Posts: 13,854

      He’s even indicated that of late. Besides, he’d need the military to try to hold on to power, and he doesn’t and won’t. All this bullshit about Trump not quietly leaving office comes from people who like to compare him to Hitler, and who will be astonished when someone far worse than Trump replaces Biden or his VP if we have elections in 2024 and 2028.

      Right now I’m kind of hoping we don’t.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      If Democrats don’t stand for the people, why should people stand for them?--Jim Hightower

    • #331647
      game meat
      • Total Posts: 1,219

      Sure, he’ll probably dispute the results if he loses, but so what? This idea that he’s going to barricade the door to the oval office with empty KFC buckets and everyone is just going to shrug their shoulders and say, “Oh well, I guess we’re stuck with him,” is peak Trump derangement. That tptb, the military, and the coalition of billionaires who run the country would risk an actual civil war out of an unyielding devotion to Trump is beyond laughable. And for what? To stop Biden from assuming power and doing almost everything exactly the same?

      He can piss and moan in the corner and stomp his feet all he wants. If it comes to that, then he will be forcibly removed just as soon as everyone is done laughing at him.

    • #331653
      David the Gnome
      • Total Posts: 2,406

      I think it is worth considering though, whether we might all be wrong.

    • #331661
      • Total Posts: 1,465

      @davidthegnome Well, if such a thing happens, it happens, and we will just have to deal with it.  I doubt it would be Trump, heck Biden’s VP(or Trump’s for that matter) would be a more likely candidate.  Guy has to have a few things going for him which he just does not.

      A possible Authoritarian Dictator has have some of the following:

      1. Supported by the Military – Negative
      2. Support of more than 70% of the populace – Negative
      3. Able to take advantage of a crisis and leverage support to their cause – Negative (just by 2 it is very unlikely)

      Usually when an Authoritarian comes up in a country, it is usually after a Power Vacuum conflict.  Where the existing power is deposed and a new one comes up.  Other countries that had a President become an Authoritarian one, the trend tends to be that they kicked out a pre-existing system(a.k.a. Foreign Influence) and declare Martial Law to keep things stable.

      Trump is currently the existing power.  Had they been successful in unseating him with the impeachment, and if there was a power struggle after that, then there would have been a larger chance for an authoritarian dictator to come up.

      The only way I see this happening, is if this Economic Collapse gets much worse and the Governmental Leader would actually go after the banks and companies.  Going after that group and help remove the debt of the citizenry.  In essence, getting out of the pre-existing Power System that we are under, while getting the support of the populace since they would need broad support.  At the moment, it just isn’t there.  Only way I see a President being able to get to that point is if he were to overturn the whole system in place when the vast majority of the people are in dire straits.

      It’s not there yet.  However, if there is an armed revolution that happens in the US, the next governmental body would most likely be Authoritarian.

      It’s not going to be Trump.

    • #331696
      • Total Posts: 5,438

      That’s what they said about Hillary.

    • #331848
      • Total Posts: 2,505

      If the U.S. was a business, he would have dragged it into bankruptcy court long ago.

    • #331892
      • Total Posts: 877

      WAY too many people are counting chickens before they hatch.

      Amazing how some Democrats in the Senate are even OPENLY talking about getting rid of the filibuster when Biden wins and the Democrats take the Senate. That’s a very dangerous move to telegraph at this stage.

      The overconfidence and arrogance by the DNC we saw in 2016 is already back in full swing.

    • #331898
      • Total Posts: 3,026

      That question, unfortunately, was settled in Kentucky this morning, and Colorado tonight. Neither of those two Schumer backed frauds will have a snowball’s chance in my back yard in November, and that’s pretty much the final nail in the coffin of a “Democratic” Senate Majority.

      So even if Biden wins, and Cheeto doesn’t fight the inevitable, look “forward” to 4 years of absolutely NONE of the last 4 years damage being undone. (Never mind the 36 years of damage before that) and probably little or nothing to prevent further damage in areas where it’s crucial to act NOW – but not in the interest’s of the corporate oligarchs who fund Dementia Joe & the rest of the Vichy “Democrats” (climate change/health care/infrastructure/student debt/etc.)

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #331910
      Captain Arizona
      • Total Posts: 153

      drag him kicking and screaming from the white house and dump in on pennsylvania avenue.

    • #331990
      • Total Posts: 1,939

      His tax returns, all of the potential scandals that he has prevented administration officials from testifying about and his egotistical approach to dealing with foreign countries will all come out after he leaves Washington.

      One thing we can be sure of is that he will remain the darling of the RW media for some time to come after he leaves. His conspiracy theories and attacks on anyone who is not ‘loyal’ to him will be unrelenting. Fox News will eat it up.

      They are called 'human' rights not "if politicians do not feel threatened" rights. Many politicians see national sovereignty/security as more important because they protect their power and wealth. Human rights often do just the opposite.

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not resolved with more national sovereignty.

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