Worse Than Hitler

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    • #374337
      ZimInSeattle
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      • Total Posts: 1,805

      By Eugene Jarecki

      Godwin’s Law, one of the funniest and most incisive principles of the digital age, posits that the longer an online discussion continues, the higher the likelihood things will escalate to a point where one or another party mentions Hitler or the Nazis. I recognize that with the title “Worse Than Hitler,” I may lose some readers. Out of the gate, I’m already an egregious case-study in Godwin’s Law. But I am prepared to take that risk. For me, the stakes of remaining silent are too high.

      My father fled Nazi Germany in 1939 at the age of six, coming to America where he met my mother, whose own family had fled Czarist Russia a half-century before. They married in 1957 and, born of refugeeism, my siblings and I were taught to see the world through a lens of flight, the ominous awareness that societies can turn monstrous overnight. As a filmmaker, I’ve sought to advance the cause of human dignity, with a particular focus on America and its promise of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

      Of course, America has always been an imperfect experiment in democracy. Yet for all its faults, it has nonetheless proved a staging ground for some crucial advances in the long arc of the moral universe, which Martin Luther King reminds us, “bends toward justice.” As a result, even during America’s worst moments, I have always rejected comparisons to Hitler or the Nazis. I recognize that ill-placed analogies risk instrumentalizing history and catapulting discussion into unproductive hyperbole.

      But this time it’s different.

      I can’t begin to fathom the content of Donald Trump’s character. Nor for that matter Adolf Hitler’s. The clouds of propaganda surrounding any public figure make it impossible for any outsider to really know what makes them tick. But what I do know, though, is that the actions of the Trump administration have taken on an increasingly authoritarian character over time: voluminous lies, admiration and kinship with recognized strongmen, brazen racism and sexism in public remarks including the endorsement of eugenic beliefs like “racehorse theory,” encouragement of racial and subversive violence, actions to undermine the independence of state institutions, threats to lock up opponents and detractors, an aggressive adversarial posture toward a free press, unapologetic self-dealing, and, most recently, expressions of contempt toward the Constitution’s separation of powers and free and fair elections. Where Hitler wrote in Mein Kampf of the power of the “big lie,” Donald Trump engages in something new and more fitting to the social media age: an hurricane of smaller lies that inflict a thousand little cuts on the possibility of objective truth itself. That he has also publicly toyed with the idea of remaining in power beyond two termsand being succeeded by his children only underscores the evidence, at minimum, of authoritarian inclinations.

      More at above link.

      "Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime" - Aristotle "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine" - George Bernard Shaw "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, will make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK #SurviveAndRevolt

    • #374341
      HassleCat
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      • Total Posts: 5,541

      So are you. So is everybody. In some respect. Godwin’s Law exists for a reason. When it comes to the ability to seize an opportunity to impose authoritarian rule and implement evil, no modern figure compares to Hitler. This is why Hitler comparisons should be narrow, and not generalized or broadly interpreted. For example, it’s quite probable that Trump cheats at golf more than Hitler cheated at golf, but this does not support the conclusion, or even the implication, that Trump is worse than Hitler. Godwin’s Law helps us from wandering down that path.

    • #374343
      N2Doc
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      • Total Posts: 8,843

      I have an elderly friend who was a child in Nazi Germany. He doesn’t talk much about it, sounded like his village wasn’t hit hard by the fighting. Yesterday he came to me and expressed his worries that the US was looking awfully familiar to pre-war Nazi Germany. First time he had seemed so freaked out. I don’t know if it is the media or if the parallels really are that clear to him, but I respect his opinion.

    • #374347
      bazukhov
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      • Total Posts: 2,946

      Hitler used nationalism to come to power and believed in it.   Trump believes in nothing beyond what he sees in the mirror and uses nationalism as an excuse for his depravity.

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

    • #374350
      Hobbit709
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      • Total Posts: 2,177

      in Vienna. Growing up in Vienna back in the 50’s I learned a lot from them about what it was like.

      When Shrub created DHS, my mother’s comment- “That is a direct translation from the German.”- said it all.

      When Trump started his shit in 2016, her attitude was “I’ve heard all this crap before.”

      So yes, I can see the similarities to Hitler in his rhetoric.

      I don't waste my time teaching pigs to sing.

    • #374358
      Satan
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      • Total Posts: 4,177

      Cheeto had fake bone spurs and hasn’t done shit about infrastructure (and probably never would do anything unless it was corporate funded toll roads).

      So in those respects he’s definitely worse than Hitler.

      As far as the death rate goes… Cheeto has managed to rack up a quarter million dead Americans in about 9 months, so if you gave him 4 years, he might very well match, or even exceed Hitler’s body count.

      "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable". - John F. Kennedy

    • #374445
      GZeusH
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      • Total Posts: 3,319

      Fuckin’ shitball made it impossible to point out fascist behavior right in front of your eyes without having to get tangled up with his stupid meme.  Where’s my quiver of lightning bolts, I need to send one down and part his hair with it.

    • #374452
      djean111
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      • Total Posts: 5,518

      https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/26/trumps-murder-rate-cnn-guest-count-hits-stalin-hit/

      historians generally number Hitler’s death count around 11 million; Stalin’s, about 20 million; and Mao‘s, anywhere between 20 million and 45 million.

      IMO it would take a Joe Biden-instigated WWIII to reach those numbers.

    • #374453
      Sorechasm
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      • Total Posts: 384

      except that he wasn’t quite stupid enough to believe his own lies. His ego may be our saving grace since he was too lazy to take a Hitler-like advantage of the sheep who idolized him.

      “Go and tell Alexander that God the Supreme King is never the Author of insolent wrong, but is the Creator of light, of peace, of life, of water, of the body of man and of souls;...what Alexander offers and the gifts he promises are things to me utterly useless;..." Dandamis, a great sannyasi of Taxila.Excerpt From: Yogananda, Paramahansa. “Autobiography of a Yogi.”

    • #374474
      Cold Mountain Trail
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      • Total Posts: 10,703

      “historians generally number Hitler’s death count around 11 million; Stalin’s, about 20 million; and Mao‘s, anywhere between 20 million and 45 million”

      –that’s BS, from the ‘historians generally’ to the counts themselves.  The counts vary wildly depending on 1) political stance 2) what’s counted as a death.

       

       

    • #374691
      ArtfromArk
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      • Total Posts: 1,184

      I once had a Chinese officemate whose family was decimated by the Cultural Revolution. He hated the Chinese Communists with the passion of a thousand suns.

      Remember that Mao got his start at killing back in the 1920s, when he started his Communist revolution. He continued through the Japanese occupation, going so far as to dress up some of his goons as Japanese soldiers to kill opposition Nationalists and persuade neutral Chinese to join his cause. After the Japanese left, the civil war continued for another 4 years until the Nationalists were forced into exile in Taiwan. Over the next few decades, Mao imposed his will on the Chinese people, with devastating results. During the “Cultural Revolution” of 1966-76, for example, Mao forced urban professionals and rural bumpkins to trade places, so that doctors and professors became “instant farmers” while uneducated dirt farmers suddenly became “doctors” and other “professionals”. This led to both massive starvation caused by food shortages arising from “farmers” who had no idea how to grow crops, to people losing their lives to fake “doctors” who had no idea how to treat patients. So the estimate of 20 million to 45 million Chinese losing their lives to that tyrant is in all likelihood correct. Even Mao’s successors had to admit that the Cultural Revolution went “too far”, and they even arrested Mao’s widow after his death.

      “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #374694
      ArtfromArk
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      • Total Posts: 1,184

      I once worked with a woman who was from the former SSR of Georgia, Stalin’s home republic. She told me that the 20 million figure was probably close to the real numbers, although no one will know for sure. At any rate, some of the 20 million “Soviet” deaths in the “Great Patriotic War” that are attributed to Germany can probably be attributed to Stalin, as some SSRs, like the Ukraine and the Baltic republics, sympathized with Germany and even supported the Germans because they wanted to be free of Stalin’s control. There is no way of knowing how many such “counter-revolutionaries” died at Stalin’s and the Red Army’s hands, but no doubt it is in the millions. And Stalin had 30 years to wipe out his enemies. It  got to the point where even Stalin’s own doctors in Georgia wouldn’t treat him– even they wanted him dead.

      “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #374701
      JonLP
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      • Total Posts: 2,856

      Hitler wasn’t the only far right nationalist. Hate the left. Check. Hate minorities. Check. They have supporters that act like Brownshirts. Trump constantly trial balloons dictatorship like declaring victory and threatening to go to the Supreme Court to stop the count when it shows him ahead.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

    • #374702
      JonLP
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      • Total Posts: 2,856

      The US has stronger independent institutions so Trump is limited in what he can get away with. Far right nationalism, hate the left & minorities.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

    • #374708
      Cold Mountain Trail
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      • Total Posts: 10,703

      I’m not going to argue who’s the biggest killer.  Or anecdotal evidence.

      Just one example.  A large part of the mao deaths are famine deaths, but if counted the same way, britain would be in the same rank.

       

    • #374713
      Average Gazoo
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      • Total Posts: 487

      “Hitler” is a very lazy comparison. It has come to mean simply ‘has authoritarian tendencies.’

      Hitler came from a poor background, lied his way into the military, survived trench warfare, rallied veterans, attacked neighboring countries, committed genocides.  Trump comes from money, lied his way out of military service, carved media attention, loves decadence, has a jewish daughter.

      There is a good documentary on Berlusconi, “Videocracy”, that inadvertently shows how similar Trump and Berlusconi are. Trump is a salesman and a creator of media who understands how to dominate the national discussion.

      Be the Change

    • #374714
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,856

      Though he has said anti-semitic statements he certainly has done things like housing discrimination, Obama birth certificate conspiracy, central park 5, Muslim ban which had nothing do to terrorism because Saudi Arabia & Pakistan were excluded. Immigration policy including with asylum seekers.

      Hitler is a bigger scale but targets are the same. It seems ever since Reagan or Nixon, Republicans have flirted with fascism.

      Let this radicalize you rather than lead you to despair - Mariame Kaba

    • #374733
      ArtfromArk
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      • Total Posts: 1,184

      when it comes to death by famine. Yeah, I know, Irish potato famine, but Mao was the worst, by far. He was a horrible person, and he was responsible for millions upon millions of deaths from his ridiculous programs and civil war. I heard that directly from a Chinese man whose family was nearly wiped out by Mao. He confided in me because I was American and he could therefore trust me, unlike his compatriots who he felt might have been spies. I have no reason to disbelieve him.

      Mao SUCKED, there is just no way around that. And he holds the record for number of people killed under his watch.

      “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

    • #374746
      Yanath
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      • Total Posts: 1,604

      actually died in a famine caused when farmers slaughtered their livestock and burned their crops in resistance to collectivization, and the figures are much lower than the anti-communist propaganda claims.

      But Americans don’t need to point their fingers at foreign dictators. They should just look in the mirror and do an honest assessment of their own government’s victims.

    • #374767
      Earthartist
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      • Total Posts: 1,156

      Because it leaves out the 100 of years of leader after leader in America slaughtering people all over the world. Usually people of color. We started here how many native people were slaughtered? Then the Caribbean  and Central America. Then African slaves how many died for the cotton industry? Then all over the Pacific. Then WW1 WW2  Vietnam NK. Laos.       Well you get the idea. We as a nation leave all others except maybe the UK far behind in the Hitler realm. Of course let us not forget who funded Hitler!

      Earthartist

    • #374796
      Cold Mountain Trail
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      • Total Posts: 10,703

      it’s not just the irish, it’s india & elsewhere @artfromark

      “Davis characterizes the Indian famines under the British Raj as “colonial genocide”….”   Davis argues, for example, that “Between 1875–1900—a period that included the worst famines in Indian history—annual grain exports increased from 3 to 10 million tons”, equivalent to the annual nutrition of 25m people. “Indeed, by the turn of the century, India was supplying nearly a fifth of Britain’s wheat consumption at the cost of its own food security…”  As an example of the effects of both this and of the restructuring of the local economy to suit imperial needs (in Victorian Berar, the acreage of cotton doubled 1875–1900),[8] Davis notes that “During the famine of 1899–1900, when 143,000 Beraris died directly from starvation, the province exported not only thousands of bales of cotton but an incredible 747,000 bushels of grain.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Victorian_Holocausts

       

      “In 1981, Sen published Poverty and Famines… he argued that famine occurs not only from a lack of food, but from inequalities built into mechanisms for distributing food. Sen also argued that the Bengal famine was caused by an urban economic boom that raised food prices, thereby causing millions of rural workers to starve to death when their wages did not keep up…As a nine-year-old boy, he witnessed the Bengal famine of 1943, in which three million people perished. This staggering loss of life was unnecessary, Sen later concluded….there was an adequate food supply in Bengal at the time, but particular groups…did not have the means to buy food as its price rose rapidly due to factors that include British military acquisition, panic buying, hoarding, and price gouging, all connected to the war in the region….Sen revealed that in many cases of famine, food supplies were not significantly reduced. In Bengal, for example, food production, while down on the previous year, was higher than in previous non-famine years….”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amartya_Sen

       

      Potato famine in ireland killed over 1 million people outright in a couple of years, + displaced more, but since we’re recently warned that hunger is an issue here at home:

      The potato blight returned to Europe in 1879, but by that point the Land War, described as one of the largest agrarian movements to take place in 19th-century Europe, had begun in Ireland.  The movement, organized by the Land League, continued the political campaign for the Three Fs, issued in 1850 by the Tenant Right League during the Great Famine. When the potato blight returned in the 1879 famine the League boycotted “notorious landlords” and its members physically blocked evictions of farmers; the consequent reduction in homelessness and house demolition resulted in a drastic reduction in the number of deaths.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Famine_(Ireland)

    • #374953
      ArtfromArk
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      • Total Posts: 1,184

      That muthafukker outright killed millions of Chinese and indirectly killed tens of millions of others with his ridiculous policies. I heard that every day from my Chinese officemate. He lost many family members due to the Cultural Revolution. Fuck Mao with a cattle prod.

      “There’s a new spirit abroad in the land. The old days of ‘grab and greed’ are on their way out. We’re beginning to think of what we owe the other fellow, not just what we’re compelled to give him. The time’s coming… when we shan’t be able to fill our bellies in comfort while others go hungry, sleep in warm beds while others shiver in the cold.... And God willing, we’ll live to see that day…” Basil Rathbone,"Sherlock Holmes Faces Death" (Universal 1943)

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