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Home Main Forums General Discussion WSJ confirms Carter Page was cooperating with FBI before he entered campaign

  • leveymg (4050 posts)
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    WSJ confirms Carter Page was cooperating with FBI before he entered campaign

    Overlooked in the furor of publication of the Nunes Memo, The Wall Street Journal published an article Friday that confirms major points made about Page in earlier research first posted at JPR by this author.  See, https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

    In a JPR series beginning last May, readers here first learned that Carter Page — now a key figure in the Nunes Memo — before joining the Trump campaign was a key informant for the FBI in an investigation and prosecution of Russian intelligence operations in NY. See, https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/is-carter-page-an-fbi-informant-who-wormed-into-trumps-campaign/

    As I reported, Court documents and USDOJ press releases stated that in January 2013 Page first made the acquaintance of Victor Polobnyy, a suspected Russian intelligence operative at an energy conference in NY.  In May, Page then met with FBI Agents.  Documents show that subsequently an FBI informant posing as an American energy analyst passed bugged binders to the SVR though which the Bureau conducted electronic surveillance of suspected intelligence operatives at the Russian Mission to the UN.  In 2015, Polobny was convicted of espionage based in part on Page’s testimony and expelled. Russian offices and a residence were shut down, leading to increasing U.S.-Russian tensions.

    Last April, Page sent a letter to the Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee complaining that his cover as “MALE-1” in that court testimony had revealed his identity as a cooperating witness bringing him unwanted public attention.

    Finally, the WSJ has confirmed key details of what was reported here last Spring.  The Journal’s story is titled, “Former Trump Aide Carter Page Was on U.S. Counterintelligence Radar Before Russia Dossier: Court documents, testimony show foreign-policy adviser was known to authorities as early as 2013″,  https://www.wsj.com/articles/former-trump-aide-carter-page-was-on-u-s-counterintelligence-radar-before-russia-dossier-1517486401

    In a statement last year, Mr. Page confirmed he was the unnamed consultant and said he helped U.S. federal investigators during the case. The complaint charging Mr. Podobnyy said Mr. Page had provided the Russians with documents, which Mr. Page said were “nothing more than a few samples from the more detailed lectures” he was preparing for a course he was teaching at New York University at the time. [ . . . ] Six months after prosecutors charged Mr. Podobnyy, Mr. Trump launched his presidential campaign. In January 2016, Mr. Page told the House committee, he had an “initial meeting” with the campaign and began serving as an informal adviser.

    [ . . . ]

    A former Trump national security adviser said the campaign wasn’t aware at the time of Mr. Page’s past dealings with U.S. counterintelligence officials. Over the course of the campaign, Mr. Page traveled to Russia at least twice and kept top Trump campaign advisers abreast of his travels, Mr. Page told the House panel.

    The Journal asked an obvious question, gathered together some some essential dots, but neglected to connect them:

    Yet a question persists: What prompted the FBI to suspect that Mr. Page was acting as an agent of Russia? The full extent of the evidence regarding Mr. Page that the Justice Department submitted to the U.S. Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court—a secret judicial panel that approves surveillance warrants against suspected agents of foreign powers—isn’t clear. The Wall Street Journal has previously reported that the warrant included material beyond research compiled by Christopher Steele, the former British intelligence official. What is known from court documents and testimony by Mr. Page before Congress is that the former Trump aide has been known to U.S. counterintelligence officials dating back to at least 2013, nearly three years before he joined the Trump campaign.

    JPR readers know the obvious answer to that question.  As I wrote last Spring:

    ______________________________________

    As far as I can walk the cat back, the beginnings of “Russiagate” may have been FBI surveillance of Carter Page during a 2013 meeting with Victor Podobnyy, a Russian “Junior Attache” to the UN in NY.  U.S. intelligence had Podobnyy under human and electronic surveillance as a suspected Russian SVR intelligence operative, and the FBI had recorded a conversation in March of between Podoobnyy and a second Russian agent discussing his attempt to recruit Page as an asset.

    According to court documents, in January 2013, Carter Page first met Podobnyy at an international energy conference, and later that year Page provided information about the U.S. energy industry to Podobbny.  But, this is where it only starts to get really interesting.

    In a letter published today by CNN, Page informed a US Senate committee that shortly after he met with Podobnny in 2013 he was interviewed by federal agents in June, 2013 and that he became a cooperating witness in the federal investigation and resulting 2015 prosecution. See below, and .pdf linked at http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/08/politics/carter-page-russian-official/

    Indeed, a court document in the 2015 trial of an SVR officer confirms that Page was indeed interviewed by two FBI Agents about dealings with Podobnyy.  Carter Page is referred to in the Affidavit as Male-1:

    34. On or about June 13, 2013, [FBI] Agent-2 and I interviewed
    Male-1. Male-1 stated that he first met VICTOR PODOBNYY, the
    defendant, in January 2013 at an energy symposium in New York City.
    During this initial meeting, PODOBNYY gave Male-1 PODOBNYY’s
    business card and two email addresses. Over the following months,
    Male-1 and PODOBNYY exchanged emails about the energy business and
    met in person on occasion, with Male-1 providing PODOBNYY with
    Male-l’s outlook on the current and future of the energy industry.
    Male-1 also provided documents to PODOBNYY about the energy business.

    Having cooperated with the FBI in a counter-intelligence operation and later as a witness in the 2015 trial of a Russian intelligence officer, it seems implausible that Page could have been a willing secret agent of the Russians at any point thereafter.  More likely, he was playing out a role assigned to him, perhaps under duress, by the FBI.  Page was apparently sufficiently trusted by the FBI that he was allowed to travel to Russia several times before and after the Bureau busted the Podobnny cell in September 2014.  [See FBI Affidavit for the Prosecution, http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/2015_0126_spyring2.pdf.%5D  It should be pointed out that Page was never charged as an accomplice.

    In addition, bear in mind that  Page was never a paid Trump staffer and claims he never met Flynn and never had  a single meeting with Trump.  In fact, Page appears to have insinuated himself into the Trump campaign suddenly in early 2016 when it was short-handed without persons with direct foreign experience.  He seemingly emerged out of nowhere.  A biography in Newsweek portrayed him as something of a mystery whose role in the campaign is unclear, as is how he managed to gain nearly instant access as a junior foreign policy advisor to Trump: http://www.newsweek.com/carter-page-fbi-surveillance-us-presidential-election-russia-donald-trump-583066

    Reporters who went foraging for information on him during the race for the White House found little. Within Trump’s team, no one seemed to know who hired him, or what he did for the campaign. Among U.S. businessmen who had worked in Russia, and the Russians they had worked with, few knew Page’s name. In a scathing Politico article about Page, an unnamed Western investor in Russian energy told the author: “I can poll any number of people involved in energy in Russia about Carter Page and they’ll say, ‘Carter who? You mean Jimmy Carter?’”

    What’s notable here that seems to have evaded previous notice is that instead of being a Russian agent of influence, Page at the time he spang briefly into a prominent role within the Trump campaign in early 2016, was already an FBI informant, something the Russians would obviously know.  This becomes even more crucial later that summer after Page returned from a business trip to Moscow when he was repeatedly named in the James Steele “dirty dossier” as a close confident of Russian energy officials and bankers.  Page actually appears to have all the hallmarks of an FBI informant, or an agent provocateur, who was planted into the Trump campaign as part of an intelligence operation.  Only, it seems apparent, the intelligence service he was actually serving was American rather than Russian.

    That is significant for another very important reason – according to the Washington Post, the FBI obtained a FISA warrant last summer to spy on the Trump campaign under the pretext that Page was alleged to be a Russian agent.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fbi-obtained-fisa-warrant-to-monitor-former-trump-adviser-carter-page/2017/04/11/620192ea-1e0e-11e7-ad74-3a742a6e93a7_story.html?utm_term=.ee32735cc79b

    The Russian UN employee was charged with two others in 2015.   There is an interesting section in the Justice Department press release that accompanied the March 11, 2016 conviction of one of the three Russians.  Seemingly overlooked by everyone are what appear to be at least some intriguing suggestions that Page is not the unwitting Russian pawn he has been made out to be by most of the media, and was instead quite aware of his role in FBI operations: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/evgeny-buryakov-pleads-guilty-manhattan-federal-court-connection-conspiracy-work

    BURYAKOV worked in New York with at least two other SVR agents, Igor Sporyshev and Victor Podobnyy.  From November 22, 2010, to November 21, 2014, Sporyshev officially served as a trade representative of the Russian Federation in New York.  From December 13, 2012, to September 12, 2013, Podobnyy officially served as an attaché to the Permanent Mission of the Russian Federation to the United Nations.  The investigation, however, showed that Sporyshev and Podobnyy also worked as officers of the SVR.  For their roles in the charged conspiracy, Sporyshev and Podobnyy were charged along with BURYAKOV in January 2015.  However, Sporyshev and Podbonyy no longer lived in the United States and thus were not arrested.

    BURYAKOV’s Co-Conspirators Are Recorded Inside the SVR’s New York “Residentura”

    During the course of the investigation, the FBI recorded Sporyshev and Podobnyy speaking inside the SVR’s offices in New York, known as the “Residentura.”

    The FBI obtained the recordings after Sporyshev attempted to recruit an FBI undercover employee (“UCE-1”), who was posing as an analyst from a New York-based energy company.  In response to requests from Sporyshev, UCE-1 provided Sporyshev with binders containing purported industry analysis written by UCE-1 and supporting documentation relating to UCE-1’s reports, as well as covertly placed recording devices.  Sporyshev then took the binders to, among other places, the Residentura.

    During subsequent recorded conversations, Sporyshev and Podobnyy discussed, among other things, Sporyshev’s SVR employment contract and his official cover position, their work as SVR officers, and the FBI’s July 2010 arrests of 10 SVR agents in the United States, known as the “Illegals.” [emphases added]

    While there seem to be some remarkable coincidences, it is not known if Page is actually UCE-1 or, it seems more likely, the FBI used Page to introduce one of its own employees pretending to be a coworker in Page’s NYC-based energy trading company, who subsequently passed bugged binders to the Russians.   Page was previously reported in court papers to have been identified as “MALE-1.” It’s all the more curious that Page should have two years later attached himself to the Trump campaign, and is now the central figure in “Russiagate.”  Stranger still, that none of this has previously been remarked upon in any major media.

    Here’s how ABC portrayed these events when it broke part of story about Page in April: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-campaign-advisor-carter-page-targeted-russian-spies/story?id=46557506

    Undercover FBI agents lured Buryakov and his SVR associates, Igor Sporyshev and Podobnyy, into a trap by masquerading as well-placed business sources ripe for recruitment while using physical and electronic surveillance to gather enough information to build their case.

    No reference by Newsweek or ABC to an FBI undercover employee posing as an energy analyst or the bugged binders, which suggests that Page (or an agent pretending to work with him) had more than a passive role in the electronic surveillance placed by the Bureau.

    [ . . . ]

    _______________________________

    Even today, all these months later, there still has been no reference in the major media I’ve seen to Page’s apparent role as an FBI operative who helped introduce the bugged binders.  That would have required a FISA warrant, years before the one the DOJ finally managed to obtain in October, 2016.  FISA warrants expire, but can be renewed if new developments emerge.  But, the WSJ only hints at that very significant fact:

    That fall, the Justice Department requested a secret court order to monitor Mr. Page’s ties to Russia, using as part of its request information from Mr. Steele, according to people familiar with the matter. It isn’t clear whether the department had previously requested a FISA warrant on Mr. Page, who left the Trump campaign in September amid reports about his ties to Russia.

    [ . . . ]

    Mr. Page’s name surfaced repeatedly in the fall of 2016 in classified briefings given to high-level members of Congress, according to people familiar with the matter. That was around the same time the FBI and the Justice Department were applying for a surveillance warrant against Mr. Page in the FISA court.

    A month after Mr. Trump won the presidential election, Mr. Page traveled to Russia again. There, he met again with Messrs. Dvorkovich and Baranov, among others, Mr. Page told the House panel. The following spring [2017], Rod Rosenstein, the deputy attorney general appointed by Mr. Trump, approved a renewal of surveillance of Mr. Page.

    Here’s what the major media, can’t or as yet won’t say.  Another hint: It’s in the title of the May 9, 2017 JPR report . . . “Was Carter Page an FBI Informant who wormed his way into Trump’s Campaign?”  https://jackpineradicals.com/boards/topic/is-carter-page-an-fbi-informant-who-wormed-into-trumps-campaign/

     

     

     

     

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  • 1 week ago #68
    • duckpin (6356 posts)
      Profile photo of duckpin Donor

      1. Wonderful detective work, collation of facts, and in-depth

      analysis.

      You make it impossible to take seriously anymore two sentence reductionist charges and name calling.

      I’d like to see what you’ve written put into an easily recalled place here for ready reference when the next out-of-context charge is flung.

      "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
      • leveymg (4050 posts)
        Profile photo of leveymg

        2. Thank you!

        If you like this and want to see it preserved, please message Mary25 and ask her to post it on the Daily.

        • Beebee (1568 posts)
          Profile photo of Beebee Donor

          3. Would it be these last couple of lines?

          The [Obama] Justice Department considered direct surveillance of anyone tied to a
          political campaign as a line it did not want to cross, the official added.”(16) In other words and consistent with the narcissistic loony tune school approach, they apparently decided it was fine to trample on human rights if someone is a low-level, junior, unpaid supporter rather than a fellow fat-cat career politician from the Washington swamp.

          In other words he was an easy and convenient target?

          I seem to recall that the Obama DOJ had tried over the summer of 2016 to get a FISA warrant and had been turned down twice by the rubber stamping court. Yes, that bad. And it wasn’t until they ‘modified’  it to include the supposed evidence of Carter Page’s colluding with the Russians, probably the paid for PP dossier, was it finally granted in Oct. I also recall there was rumor that they were already spying long before getting a warrant. Do you recall any of this Leveymg?

          As always I appreciate everything you take so much time, effort to write and to share with us.

          We are indeed so fortunate to have someone of your caliber.

          Thank you!

          Recommend to the Daily Radical.

          Beebee

          "confrontation of the self is as important as with others. we have to be ready to be surprised by unexpected rhetoric, or even possible communion, with those previously seen as impossible." NuttyFluffers
          • leveymg (4050 posts)
            Profile photo of leveymg

            6. Yes BBC reported early last year that a pair of FISA applications were rejected

            It’s referenced in here at ftn 72: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Foreign_Intelligence_Surveillance_Court

            2016 presidential election controversy
            Main article: Trump Tower wiretapping allegations
            In November 2016, Louise Mensch reported on the news website Heat Street that, after an initial June 2016 FBI request was denied, the FISA court had granted a more narrowly-focused October request from the FBI “to examine the activities of ‘U.S. persons’ in Donald Trump’s campaign with ties to Russia”.[71] On 12 January 2017, BBC journalist Paul Wood reported that, in response to an April 2016 tip from a foreign intelligence agency to the CIA about “money from the Kremlin going into the US presidential campaign”, a joint taskforce had been established including representatives of the FBI, the Department of the Treasury, the Department of Justice, the CIA, the Office of the Director of National Intelligence and the National Security Agency; and in June 2016 lawyers from the Department of Justice had applied to the FISA court for “permission to intercept the electronic records from two Russian banks”. According to Wood, this application was rejected, as was a more narrowly focussed request in July, and the order was finally granted by a different FISA judge on 15 October, three weeks before the presidential election.[72] On January 19 the New York Times reported that one of its sources had claimed “intelligence reports based on some of the wiretapped communications had been provided to the White House”.[73]

    • sadoldgirl (2118 posts)
      Profile photo of sadoldgirl Donor

      4. So, let me speculate here a bit:

      page was an FBI informer, as such he wrangled himself into the Trump

      campaign; however he played such a small role, that they needed to go

      to the FISA court anyway. Thus they used Page in different ways for the

      purpose of gaining info about Trump and his campaign people.

      Possible?

      • leveymg (4050 posts)
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        7. Warrantless wiretapping is a felony. There are three legalways to get around it

        One is to seek a regular criminal warrant from a federal Judge, called a Title III warrant, the US Attorney has to “show probable cause” that a federal crime has been committed or is about to be committed by a person or persons under jurisdiction of the Court.  Issuance of a criminal warrant requires a high standard of proof.

        The second way is to seek a FISA warrant from the FISA Court to target wiretaps at either a foreign power operating in the US or at an agent of a foreign power, who can be a foreign or US person, either here or outside the US.  The standard of proof is less than that required for a normal criminal warrant, so evidence gathered pursuant to a FISA warrant normally cannot be used directly against a defendant in a federal criminal court proceeding.  FISA warrants aren’t required to intercept communications of foreign powers where US persons aren’t likely to be involved.

        The third way to get around the prohibition against wiretapping US persons is to wiretap someone else for whom there is cause to believe is acting as an agent of foreign power, such as an Ambassador, and to “unmask” the identity of the US person with whom there is communication.  However, that information remains classified unless and until the Agency authorizes its declassification and public release, and still can’t normally be used directly against the US person in a court of law.

        However, if an FBI agent asks the US person about the content of that intercepted communication and the US person misrepresents the facts, that can still be used to charge and convict for Obstruction of Justice (lying to a federal investigator is, itself, a crime).  That was what happened with Mike Flynn, and no doubt was the strategy behind the FISA warrants obtained for Page and Papadopolous in the hope that others in the Trump campaign would subsequently lie to the FBI about what was said to or in their presence while they were “wearing a wire.”  See, Trump Tower wasn’t wiretapped, but two FBI operatives were.

    • MistaP (7342 posts)
      Profile photo of MistaP Donor

      5. that seems the usual FBI scuzziness–but where they'd endanger their own case

      is the double action of 1. having Paige as their less-than-voluntary informant, talking with Russians and Trumpers and 2. presenting him as the key Trump-Russia contact to justify more surveillance and further investigation

      it’s very parallel to using Fusion GPS to simultaneously collect possible leads (Steele) and try and generate new ones (Goldstone) as long as it looks like one hand doesn’t know what the other’s doing

      unlike most other salients against Trump I don’t think this is the FBI letting themselves be sloppy because the think Trump’s an easy target–that’s for political appointees and their direct subordinates; I also doubt the similarity in tactics between the Paige and Fusion affairs indicates that they were being handled by the same supervisor (e.g., Rosenstein)

      http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
      • leveymg (4050 posts)
        Profile photo of leveymg

        8. Page was central to the Steele Dossier – page 17/35 describes Page as the prime

        mover agitating within the Trump campaign for the others (to take the bait and) act to release Hillary’s email.  It was a coordinated set-up run by Fusion GPS and a group within the FBI/DOJ with a bit of help from CIA/MI-6.  Pure entrapment using agent provocateur(s).

        Only, it wasn’t described to the FISA Judge in the warrant application that way.  Definitely felony laws broken there by the FBI agents who drafted and signed off on the supporting affidavit as well as the DOJ lawyers who drafted, signed and presented the warrant application.

        • MistaP (7342 posts)
          Profile photo of MistaP Donor

          9. and the leaked story March 2017 that "someone" in the Trump campaign

          met with “someone” offering Clinton’s emails through Russia at Trump Tower: the story was brandished by Comey and got us Mueller

          I checked Google and Mueller does look pissier this year than last–not “oh no I’m about to resign” but “how’d you clowns screw this up?”

          http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
          • leveymg (4050 posts)
            Profile photo of leveymg

            10. Look, if we can figure it out, even Trump's lawyers can. That's why Mueller's

            pissed.  He’s a fixer, and his real job will be to smooth all this over with each side getting enough so that nobody spills the whole can of beans in front of the U.S. public.

            Page was understandably afraid he was being hung out to dry by himself which is why last April he revealed in his letter to Grassley that he had been cooperating with the FBI in the NY case.  I continue to be astonished that NOBODY in the major media has yet connected that letter and the public records available and drawn the obvious conclusion.  They all must be waiting for someone above (or below) their pay grade to make that connection.

            • duckpin (6356 posts)
              Profile photo of duckpin Donor

              11. That's my impression of Mueller: He's what is popularly known as a "fixer" in

              the mode of Mitchell, Baker, and Clifford. Except Mueller, in this case, has more administrative power than that of a negotiator with clout.

              "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
              • leveymg (4050 posts)
                Profile photo of leveymg

                12. Didn't a couple of the others end up stewing in their own gravy?

                Mueller has his own vulnerabilities, even if they are buried in shallow graves on what Nancy P. called “hallowed ground.”

                • duckpin (6356 posts)
                  Profile photo of duckpin Donor

                  14. The three I mentioned – the only ones that came quickly to mind – seem either

                  to be doing, or did, well.  Clifford did his work for Democrats and Baker for the Republicans, mainly the Bushes. I think it’s fair to say W Bush would not have been appointed president without Baker.

                  Mitchell did high profile, minimal risk, stuff like steroids in baseball and selling out Irish unification.

                  "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
                  • leveymg (4050 posts)
                    Profile photo of leveymg

                    16. Clifford ended up getting pulled into the earth by BCCI/First American

                    Baker retired comfortably, but only after escaping a series of related brushes with major scandals beginning with the collapse of FirstRepublic Bank Corp. and a number of Texas thrifts after they were looted by bin Mahfouz and his Texas business cronies, proceeding through the S&L scandal, the vicissitudes of client/partners including Zapata Oil, Enron, Halliburton, and the Carlyle Group.  See, https://www.thenation.com/article/its-baker-botts-world/   Most recently, BakerBotts received unwanted attention as a result of its representation of Rosneft, a giant Russian energy conglomerate.  In a Dutch court case dealing with the Russian state’s appropriation of Yukos. The two oil giants were embroiled in a bitter feud between Putin and an opponent of his, Khodorkovsy, the controlling shareholder of Yukos. Khodorkovsky was subsequently jailed, and Rosneft picked up the pieces of Yukos’ bankruptcy.  Baker Botts attorneys were sued in Dutch court and settled following allegations of various crimes including forgeries committed on behalf of Rosneft.

                • leveymg (4050 posts)
                  Profile photo of leveymg

                  15. Speaking of Bakers, did you catch this about James A. Baker?

                  https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/22/trump-dossier-fbi-james-baker-david-corn-mother-jones-316157

                  House Republicans are investigating contact between the FBI’s top lawyer and a Mother Jones reporter in the weeks before the . . . outlet broke the first news story about the existence of a disputed dossier alleging ties between President Donald Trump and the Kremlin, according to two congressional GOP sources who described documents linking the two men.

                  The GOP sources said the documents — made available recently to lawmakers by the Department of Justice — revealed that James Baker, the FBI’s general counsel, communicated with Mother Jones reporter David Corn in the weeks leading up to the November 2016 election. Corn was the first to report the existence of the dossier on Oct. 31 and that it was compiled by a former high-level western spy. The Washington Post reported Thursday that Baker had been reassigned within the FBI, though the reason for the move was unclear.

                  [ . . . ]

                  The congressional sources said there’s no conclusive evidence that Baker aided Corn’s reporting or acted as a source. But Republicans are pointing to the connection to cast suspicion about whether FBI officials had a hand in directing the details of the dossier to reporters, and the two sources said they expect it to be a focus of GOP investigators’ upcoming lines of inquiry.

                  Baker’s connection to Corn comes as Republicans in Congress have been raising questions about the FBI’s handling of the now-famous Steele dossier, named for Christoper Steele, the British former intelligence agent subsequently identified as the author of the document.

                  • duckpin (6356 posts)
                    Profile photo of duckpin Donor

                    17. No I did not see any of this – interesting, influence peddling never goes out

                    of style does it?

                    Of course, I don’t know where I would see this because Politico is a site I’ve never visited. Clifford? Maybe I read & forgot but more probably I never knew. Poor old Clark…Ha!

                    "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
                    • leveymg (4050 posts)
                      Profile photo of leveymg

                      18. Money is always fashionable. It's oldness only bestows the appearance of taste.

                      Politico is only recent gen money.   It’s founding publisher is the son of the owner of Riggs Bank, Joe Allbritton, one of Baker-bin Mahfouz’s “Texas business cronies” who looted the oil patch during the second Reagan-Bush Administration.   Old Joe gave Poppy his first Job as a Director of a bank holding company in Lichtenstein, First American Bancshares after Jimmy Carter fired him as CIA Director.    First American was shown to be connected with BCCI, a joint holding of the CIA and Saudi intelligence agencies.  http://www.newsweek.com/id/126126

                      Allbritton’s Riggs Bank was closed down after its accounts held in Prince Bandar’s name were shown to have funded the 9/11 hijackers during their stays in the U.S.  Small world, but everyone’s very fashionably attired.

                      ____________________________

                      There’s more about the recently retired Mr. Baker ‘s career at Justice, in a related vein: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Baker_(government_attorney)

                      Government service

                      Baker joined the Criminal Division of the Department of Justice through the Attorney General’s Honors Program in 1990 and went on to work as a federal prosecutor with the division’s Fraud Section.[3] In 1996 he joined Office of Intelligence Policy and Review (OIPR). This government agency handles all Justice Department requests for surveillance authorizations under the terms of the 1978 Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, advises the Attorney General and all major intelligence-gathering agencies on legal issues relating to national security and surveillance, and “coordinates” the views of the intelligence community regarding intelligence legislation.[4] Baker has often testified before Congress on behalf of Clinton and Bush administration intelligence policies, including defending The Patriot Act before the House Judiciary Committee.[5][6] Regarding Baker’s 2007 appearance on the PBS Frontline episode “Spying on the Home Front”, the show’s producer, in a Washington Post online chat, referred to Baker as “Mr. FISA himself”.[7]

                      In 1998 was promoted to Deputy Counsel for Intelligence Operations. From May 2001 he served as Acting Counsel, and in January 2002 was appointed Counsel. In January 2014, he was appointed General Counsel of the FBI. As of December 2017, newly-appointed director Christopher A. Wray was reassigning him from this role with his new duties unclear.[2]

                      _______________________

                      Remember the “confusion” over FISA warrants and how they were withheld from investigators by FBI and DOJ lawyers in 2001?  Look who was in charge of that section at the time.

                      • duckpin (6356 posts)
                        Profile photo of duckpin Donor

                        22. I am always thanking you and that's because my reading has never exposed

                        me to the total corruption of the American system. Some of it, but not this part.

                        "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
                  • Coldmountaintrail (4085 posts)
                    Profile photo of Coldmountaintrail

                    29. Baker

                    Baker the elder (1821-1897) founded Baker Botts.

                    Baker Sr (1857-1941)  instrumental in the founding of Rice University and family still Trustees if I’m not mistaken:

                    In Houston, Capt. James A. Baker, Sr. headed the 100-year-old law firm, Baker, Botts, Andrews, and Wharton. Baker was the personal attorney of William Marsh Rice, the eventual founder of Rice University. [6] Rice was chloroformed by his butler…in 1900 in his apartment on Madison Avenue. Albert T. Patrick was Rice’s attorney in New York, and the mastermind behind murdering Rice…Baker alerted the police..

                    The murder case and litigation over the will, which left a trust fund for the Rice Institute, would take nearly ten years to sort out. Baker, as an executor of the previous 1896 will, got it admitted into evidence at the trial…he helped the estate direct the Rice fortune (over $5 million dollars in 1904) to the founding of the Rice Institute…

                    Baker would be the main representative of the estate and was the founding chairman of the university’s Board of Trustees, where he served from the chartering of Rice in 1891 until his death in 1941. The board would take control of the assets on April 29, 1904. Rice University’s Baker College is named for him….

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_A._Baker_Sr.

                     

                    Ted Cruz and George Bush jr were both employed at Baker Botts (See Notable partners and employees)

                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baker_Botts

                     

    • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
      Profile photo of Babel 17 Donor

      13. Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity

      The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

      Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.

      There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.

      The FBI recapitulating techniques from the 60s, and establishment Democrats cheering them on.

      Though there is kind of a switch here with business friendly Republicans opposing them, and the activist base of the Democrats mostly applauding their actions. Albeit they are largely unaware of the devil in the details of how the investigations have been conducted.

       

      https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
      • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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        19. +1 "Take me Away"

        All power to the People.
        • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
          Profile photo of bobthedrummer

          20. Why Carter Page Was Worth Watching (Luke Harding February 3, 2018 Politico)

          https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/02/03/carter-page-nunes-memo-216934

          Yep, a Luke Harding article. 

          All power to the People.
        • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
          Profile photo of Babel 17 Donor

          25. Haunting song deserves a link to a haunting story

          IIRC it was a favorite of Theodore Sturgeon as it reflected his life experience. Though the protagonist is basically Zelazny himself.

          Deserved its acclaim.

          It’s from the end of the Golden Age/beginning of New Wave period of SF. It sits nicely astride them both.

          http://escapepod.org/2014/02/28/ep437-rose-ecclesiastes/

          A Rose for Ecclesiastes
          by Roger Zelazny
          Mercury Press, 1963
          This text taken from
          Science Fiction: The Science Fiction Research Association Anthology
          Eds. Patricia S. Warrick, Charles G. Waugh, and Martin H. Greenberg
          New York: HarperCollins, 1988. (Pgs. 308-337)

          ***

          I was busy translating one of my Madrigals Macabre into Martian on the morning I was found acceptable. The intercom had buzzed briefly, and I dropped my pencil and flipped on the toggle in a single motion.

          “Mister G,” piped Morton’s youthful contralto, “the old man says I should ‘get hold of that damned conceited rhymer’ right away, and send him to his cabin.–Since there’s only one damned conceited rhymer . . .”

          “Let not ambition mock thy useful toil,” I cut him off.

          So, the Martians had finally made up their minds! I knocked an inch and a half of ash from a smouldering butt, and took my first drag since I had lit it. The entire month’s anticipation tried hard to crowd itself into the moment, but could not quite make it. I was frightened to walk those forty feet and hear Emory say the words I already knew he would say; and that feeling elbowed the other one into the background.

          So I finished the stanza I was translating before I got up.

          It starts off all Golden age, but this is no ordinary two-fisted tale of intrepid Earthers and Martian princesses.

          https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
          • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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            40. I still regard Philip K. Dick as the most gifted of all 20th century "seers".

            No wonder that so many people were put on various politicized “lists” and subjected to harassment or worse.  Been there, survived  to this day Babel 17.  Yes, once there were dreams of a Golden Age for the “boomers”-my generation.  That dream, for me, was over when I was 15 and joined up with a high-school SDS associated group and everything that went with the free world’s political “surveillance”.

            Philip K. Dick and the Fake Humans (Henry Farrell January 16, 2018 Boston Review)

            https://bostonreview.net/literature-culture/henry-farrell-philip-k-dick-and-the-fake-humans

            Stop Comparing the NSA  to 1984 and Start Comparing it to Philip K. Dick (Noah Berlatsky April 9, 2014 The Atlantic)

            https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2014/04/stop-comparing-the-nsa-to-em-1984-em-and-start-comparing-it-to-philip-k-dick/360353

             

             

            All power to the People.
            • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
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              47. Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said, A Scanner Darkly, Radio Free Albemuth

              All three had commentary on living in a police state.

              Radio Free Albemuth got made into an Indie film, and I was watching it on Netflix, but it’s no longer available for streaming.

              Thanks for the links! Edit: The Boston Review url was just a tiny bit off (it has an extraneous “the”). This one should work. They must have updated the page and accidentally messed with its address. https://bostonreview.net/literature-culture/henry-farrell-philip-k-dick-and-fake-humans

              https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
              • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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                53. I swear that movies were made from a few paragraphs of his. Sorry about "the"

                in Boston Review address.

                All power to the People.
                • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
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                  56. Heinlein admired PKD's talent, and greatly aided him during a bad time

                  And that video made me think of his Job: A Comedy of Justice.

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job:_A_Comedy_of_Justice

                  It’s like a light hearted gallop through a universe PKD could have rendered.

                  https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
            • bemildred (6271 posts)
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              49. Saberhagen's Berserkers have a certain modern resonance:

              https://www.goodreads.com/series/40506-berserker

              It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
              • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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                54. My estranged adult son is aka Bezerkah when gaming, not Erik Prince

                All power to the People.
              • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
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                58. Has bemildred read my favorite Beserker story?

                :)

                Wings Out of Shadow

                http://www.baen.com/Chapters/0743498860/0743498860___9.htm

                WINGS OUT OF SHADOW

                As life may transmit evil, so machines of great power may hand on good.

                In Malori’s first and only combat mission the berserker came to him in the image of a priest of the sect into which Malori had been born on the planet Yaty. In a dreamlike vision that was the analogue of a very real combat he saw the robed figure standing tall in a deformed pulpit, eyes flaming with malevolence, lowering arms winglike with the robes they stretched. With their lowering, the lights of the universe were dimming outside the windows of stained glass and Malori was being damned.

                Even with his heart pounding under damnation’s terror Malori retained sufficient consciousness to remember the real nature of himself and of his adversary and that he was not powerless against him. His dream-feet walked him timelessly toward the pulpit and its demon-priest while all around him the stained glass windows burst, showering him with fragments of sick fear. He walked a crooked path, avoiding the places in the smooth floor where, with quick gestures, the priest created snarling, snapping stone mouths full of teeth. Malori seemed to have unlimited time to decide where to put his feet. Weapon, he thought, a surgeon instructing some invisible aide. Here—in my right hand.

                From those who had survived similar battles he had heard how the inhuman enemy appeared to each in different form, how each human must live the combat through in terms of a unique nightmare. To some a berserker came as a ravening beast, to others as devil or god or man. To still others it was some essence of terror that could never be faced or even seen. The combat was a nightmare experienced while the subconscious ruled, while the waking mind was suppressed by careful electrical pressures on the brain. Eyes and ears were padded shut so that the conscious mind might be more easily suppressed, the mouth plugged to save the tongue from being bitten, the nude body held immobile by the defensive fields that kept it whole against the thousands of gravities that came with each movement of the one-man ship while in combat mode. It was a nightmare from which mere terror could never wake one; waking came only when the fight was over, came only with death or victory or disengagement.

                Into Malori’s dream-hand there now came a meat cleaver keen as a razor, massive as a guillotine-blade. So huge it was that had it been what it seemed, it would have been far too cumbersome to even lift. His uncle’s butcher shop on Yaty was gone, with all other human works of that planet. But the cleaver came back to him now, magnified, perfected to suit his need.

                 

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                • bemildred (6271 posts)
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                  59. I dunno, it was a long time ago and I read a lot of that stuff

                  back in the day. Both magazines and any books I could find. I liked Saberhagen a lot, but moved on to other things.

                  Spinrad had a real handle on dystopias too: “The Men In The Jungle” is right up there with Lord of the Flies.

                  “I read this first when I was in high school and found it…disturbing. It’s a bleak enough story. Amoral and ruthless mercenary and his two closest hangers-on start a revolution on an out-of-the-way planet run by a truly nasty little theocracy. The kicker is that the planet has no edible native livestock— the ruling elite get their protein from farming and devouring slave children. The rebels our hero raises want freedom…freedom to eat (human) protein, too. It’s a book with no good guys, and even after victory, there’s nothing even remotely pleasant happening: bring your steak sauce. It’s a political cautionary tale, but one that describes what happens with a bit too much gusto not to be disturbing.”

                  https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/633190.The_Men_in_the_Jungle

                  I still remember that one pretty well.

                  It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
                • bemildred (6271 posts)
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                  60. Yup, that's classic Saberhagen.

                  Kind of reminds me of Iain M. Banks stuff too. He was big on super killer robots, but they were friendly to their owners.

                  It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
    • Major Hogwash (3241 posts)
      Profile photo of Major Hogwash Donor

      21. Then Trump shouldn't have hired Page.

      The fact remains that many of Trump’s minions were heavily invested by meeting with the Russians. There is no other conclusion to draw from this latest article.

      Trump moya marionetka ~ Putin  
      • leveymg (4050 posts)
        Profile photo of leveymg

        23. It's not clear exactly how Page wormed his way in. He was never hired

        in a technical employer-employee sense.  The legend cultivated for him when he first approached the Trump campaign in January 2016 is that he was a wealthy international energy advisor who didn’t need a salary, but reporters who traced him down found he never got past mid-level analyst when he worked for a western bank in Russia in the previous decade.   Nobody in the business knew who he really was.  My take is, he’s been a plant working for an intelligence agency.  Only just not a Russian agency.  All we really know about him is from court records that show he was an informant for the FBI.

      • quinn (257 posts)
        Profile photo of Quinn Donor

        46. Reading this last night

        That what I was wondering about, how did that go down.

    • Fawke Em (4259 posts)
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      24. So, correct me if I'm wrong, but I read this as the FBI is using Page

      in much the same manor as they use Muslim employees to gather up poor and uneducated Muslim men to carry out their “terror” plots they concoct to bust up and get more financing.

          
      • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
        Profile photo of Babel 17 Donor

        26. The technique goes way, way, back

        The old joke was if you got a good cup of coffee in a roomful of radicals it was because an FBI plant had made it. They were taught to make themselves useful. When Congress cracked down on that some groups went under as it was mostly the dues from those plants that kept them going. And the coffee became terrible again. :)

        If things were slow at the meetings they’d come up with swell ideas for how to liven things up.

        Lol, in the 70s it was mandatory for hard core leftist groups to advertise themselves as having meetings open to the public. I went to one, and they spent an hour taking turns reading about the Marxist dialectic or whatever.

        I split when they took a break, which I guess proved I wasn’t FBI, as only a dedicated agent would sit through that. Yeah, I guess they didn’t recruit many members. Nice people though, college kids sharing a house.

        https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free  
        • bemildred (6271 posts)
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          27. "Never listen to your FBI plant."

          Sound advice from back in the day.

          It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
          • sadoldgirl (2118 posts)
            Profile photo of sadoldgirl Donor

            30. Thanks, yes, I do remember that one, but they infiltrated successfully anyway.

    • bemildred (6271 posts)
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      28. A conversation about Steele & Manafort you may find interesting:

      Right wing source, lot’s of Anglo-Zionist empire stuff, but …

      http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2018/02/habakkuk-on-longtime-sources.html

      I’m taking it with lots of salt, but it matches up with other theorizing I’ve seen in diverse places. Some of the comments have interesting bits too.

      It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
      • leveymg (4050 posts)
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        32. I would add something to Lang's analysis of what's driving this.

        Here’s how he sums it up:

        There is reason to suspect that some former and very likely current employees of the FBI have been colluding with elements in other American and British intelligence agencies, in particular the CIA and MI6,  in support of an extremely ambitious foreign policy agenda for a very long time.  It also seems clear that influential journalists, such as Glenn Simpson was before founding Fusion GPS, along with his wife Mary Jacoby, have been strongly involved in this.

        This agenda has involved hopes for ‘régime change’ in Russia, whether as the result of an oligarchic coup, a popular revolt, or some combination of both.  Also central have been hopes for a further ‘rollback’ of Russia influence in the post-Soviet space, both in areas now independent, such as Ukraine, and also ones still part of the Russian Federation, notably Chechnya.

        And, crucially, it involved exploiting the retreat of Russian power from the Middle East for ‘régime change’ projects which it was hoped would provide a definitive solution to the – inherently intractable – security problems of a Jewish settler state in the area.

        I substantially agree with this analysis.  It’s consistent with the costly, interventionist policies of the U.S. and the west toward Russia, generally, since the end of the First World War.  In it’s current incarnation as “regime change”, it’s an extension of the Brzezinski Doctrine driving U.S. policy toward Russia and the Middle East by Administrations and both parties going back to Carter.  That involves the use of surrogates, such as Jihadi terrorist groups and the Far-Right, and exploitation of tensions along ethnic and religious lines to slice up states and carve off territories, particularly those rich in oil.  It’s a variation of “roll-back”, the alternative Cold War strategy which involved the higher-risk threat of direct military confrontation across divided Europe.  Regime change is a sort of in-between policy that combines roll-back and Kennan’s traditional “containment” approach.

        The important insight here is that current strategy is exploitation of the ambitions and divisions among Russian oligarchs, and Russiagate clearly involves some of these as principal players in an effort to remove Putin.  In the alternative (or in addition) to elite division resulting in regime change in Russia, further sanctions that would remove Russian oil and national gas from the world market hold obvious appeal to other producers, such as our friends the Saudis.

        • bemildred (6271 posts)
          Profile photo of bemildred Donor

          33. Yeah. It goes way back.

          And they always fuck it up, and they always double down. The basic approach never changes, and they never learn. It’s ideological.

          I’m no Russia expert but my money is on Putin and his minions in that dispute, he just needs a reason, and he can make one any time he likes.

          It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
          • leveymg (4050 posts)
            Profile photo of leveymg

            34. Russian secret services have an old tradition of divided loyalties and regicide

            The western media obviously has developed a theory that there is already a bloody power struggle going on in Moscow, and the body count of dead spooks and diplomats is mounting up, the late Oleg Erovinkin formerly #2 to Putin’s aide d’ camp, Igor Sechin, most particularly.  See, e.g.,  https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/24/europe/dead-russians/index.html

            It may well be that the CIA analysts believe that the SVR/FSB may contain elements sufficiently ambitious and independent that they will revert to form of the pre-revolutionary Okhrana, (Imperial Guard), which for centuries acted to police the court in St. Petersburg, assassinating a number of Czars.   In addition to targeting Trump, the Steele Dossier dirty-tricks project may have been, in part, an effort to panic disaffected elites into some sort of precipitous act.   Here’s a series I wrote a while back about the regicidal history of the Okhrana and its divided loyalties, and how the Okhrana’s intervention in leadership disputes historically benefited foreign powers.

            https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/11/15/271437/-  (Pt. 1)

            http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0612/S00032.htm (Pt. 2)

            https://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2893522&mesg_id=2893522 (Pt. 3)

             

             

             

            • bemildred (6271 posts)
              Profile photo of bemildred Donor

              35. WelI I think that was the idea, I just don't think it will work

              “The basic approach never changes, and they never learn. It’s ideological.”

              It’s always with the underhanded dirty tricks kind of approach, divide and rule, all stick and no carrot, obey or die. Naturally this provokes a lot of resistance. They have an ideological stance against giving anybody else carrots. We only deal in sticks.

              What it is is they long to get Yeltsin back. Those were the good old days, a drunk, perfect.

              If a bloody power struggle breaks out in Russia soon I will admit error.

              It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
            • bemildred (6271 posts)
              Profile photo of bemildred Donor

              37. I agree there is a definite strategy of "foreshadowing", trying to suggest

              things you would like to happen in the news. That happens a lot. Like Tillerson’s suggestion that a military coup would be just the thing for Venezuela. Stochastic statesmanship, so to speak, not unlike stochastic terrorism, which is also common these days.

              We expect all our enemies to be dumber than we are. When they aren’t we get really, really upset.

              It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
            • bemildred (6271 posts)
              Profile photo of bemildred Donor

              38. I mean Erdogan stuffed the same strategy with Putin's help.

              Not long ago. Erdogan.

              It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
            • bemildred (6271 posts)
              Profile photo of bemildred Donor

              39. Haley condemns Russia over Syria's chemical weapons use

              See, one trick ponies, no new ideas.

              U.S. ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley on Monday called it a “true tragedy” that Russia has been blocking U.N. efforts to condemn and probe Syrian leader Bashar Assad’s use of chemical weapons, the latest alleged instance of which took place Sunday.

              “The news out of Syria this morning is following a troubling pattern,” Nikki Haley said during a Security Council briefing in New York. “Victims of what appears to be chlorine gas are pouring into hospitals.”

              Using its Security Council veto, Russia has protected Assad from U.N. resolutions and other actions for years, including blocking recent attempts by an expert panel known as the Joint Investigative Mechanism to further look into alleged chemical weapons use in Syria. Moscow also provided Assad with military aid to fight rebels trying to oust him.

              https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/nikki-haley-russia-syria-chemical-weapons-390811

              It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
        • MistaP (7342 posts)
          Profile photo of MistaP Donor

          48. remember, the Clintons DID bring about regime change in Russia

          and DID defeat its military–internally, not through overspending like they say Reagan did

          Yeltsin shelled his legislature and murdered Muscovites in the street to keep power unconstitutionally and enforce the same “new economics” that the incoming Clintons favored; they literally cheated the Communist Party out of a comeback in 1996

          and while Gingrich rehabilitated the senile and embarrassing Reagan into the “vanquisher of the Soviet Union,” it was Clintonomics that defeated the Russian military: PhDs selling trinkets in the snow, playgrounds stripped of all their metal, armories emptied into Africa, Grozny invaded drunk, selling off everything the state had for a fraction of the price to the Mafiya, missiles and submarines and backup generators rusting out, lifespans cut by 10 years

          and the fearsome Bear was a paper tiger all along–everything that’d made it a superpower could be taken away by one drunkard with a 4% approval rating! so no matter what strong leaders built up, a weak leader could be installed and knocked down

          the Beltway always fundamentally misreads Russia–buffer-state satellites are seen as a Hitleresque plot to conquer the globe, nuclear tests are seen as seeking first-strike capability, allied liabilities on other continents are seen as toeholds and undermined by the US until the only seller for defensive weapons is the USSR (in turn justifying bigger guns for the Contras or Mujahedeen), bounceback from the horrors of the 90s is seen as “the Bear ascendant,” attacking ethnocidal regimes on its borders that it never saw as fully sovereign is “neo-Sovietist expansonism”

          http://www.salon.com/2016/11/09/the-hillary-clinton-campaign-intentionally-created-donald-trump-with-its-pied-piper-strategy/ (Third Way = Bell Curve)
          • duckpin (6356 posts)
            Profile photo of duckpin Donor

            50. I agree with every thing you just said – Thanks. My conjecture is that Reagan

            went into the WH with dementia – I saw aides handing him 3X5 cards and  Reagan would read them off in his actorly voice. I saw little evidence that he could do other than repeat memorized script lines.

            The whole “we made the USSR bankrupt itself by overspending on the military” story was laughable on its face yet it was dutifully picked up by those who own the establishment media as the truth.

            And, most Americans have forgotten, if the ever knew in the first place, that Yeltsin defeated the Communist Party through force of arms and then unleashed wholesale looting of the country. Hoodlums would stop the flow of electricity and then cut up the power wires for scrap value, to name just one instance (and a minor one at that). This was a direct outcome of the “Harvard Boys economists” installing U of Chicago fairydust economics on a bewildered country.

            Is it any wonder that among older Russians, the polls show they would rather return to the  days of the USSR than continue under capitalism.

            "The justness of individual land right is  not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged "
          • leveymg (4050 posts)
            Profile photo of leveymg

            51. Yeltsin should give Trump reason for hope of survival.

            No matter what he does, Trump will never fall to 4% favorability nationwide.  History will likely regarded both as fools and tools of cooperating foreign powers and domestic kleptocrats who miraculously survived long enough in office to do as much damage as they did.

            Yeltsin and Trump also share a common gestalt – they rule over two countries with discouraged citizenry, viciously divided legislatures, and a baffled bureaucracy.  Many in the USA today, like the USSR in 1990, feel like they’ve had the stuffing knocked out of them.  We have lost so many rounds that a towel and a hot shower seem the only things to look forward to.

            I knew there was a reason they installed those pop-up barriers on the streets around the Capitol.

          • Koko (4679 posts)
            Profile photo of Koko Donor

            66. +! Good points there for memory jog.

        • Koko (4679 posts)
          Profile photo of Koko Donor

          65. This snip makes a lot of sense…

          for those of us who’ve been following all of this for the past years:


          In it’s current incarnation as “regime change”, it’s an extension of the Brzezinski Doctrine driving U.S. policy toward Russia and the Middle East by Administrations and both parties going back to Carter. That involves the use of surrogates, such as Jihadi terrorist groups and the Far-Right, and exploitation of tensions along ethnic and religious lines to slice up states and carve off territories, particularly those rich in oil. It’s a variation of “roll-back”, the alternative Cold War strategy which involved the higher-risk threat of direct military confrontation across divided Europe. Regime change is a sort of in-between policy that combines roll-back and Kennan’s traditional “containment” approach.

          The important insight here is that current strategy is exploitation of the ambitions and divisions among Russian oligarchs, and Russiagate clearly involves some of these as principal players in an effort to remove Putin. In the alternative (or in addition) to elite division resulting in regime change in Russia, further sanctions that would remove Russian oil and national gas from the world market hold obvious appeal to other producers, such as our friends the Saudis.

    • Marym625 (28800 posts)
      Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

      31. On The Daily Radical

      Member recommended

      I’m sorry so late

      Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
      • bemildred (6271 posts)
        Profile photo of bemildred Donor

        36. Hi Mary.

        :hug:

        It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
        • Marym625 (28800 posts)
          Profile photo of Marym625 Admin

          63. Hi bemildred

          :hug: :hi:

          Take Action #StopFCC https://www.battleforthenet.com/breaktheinternet/ "Once the decision was made to go into Iraq as an invader and occupier,  it’s like our nation lost its conscience. And it has not yet gotten that conscience back." Madfloridian  
    • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
      Profile photo of bobthedrummer

      41. In Defense Of Suspected Russian Agent Carter Page, Michael Mukasey Just Gave

      Defense Attorneys A Big Gift (Marcy Wheeler Febrary 5, 2018)

      https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/02/05/in-defense-of-suspected-russian-agent-carter-page-michael-mukasey-just-gave-defense-attorneys-a-big-gift

      Michael Mukasey (Wikipedia entry)

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Mukasey

      Let’s just keep following the money regardless of all else Mr. Mueller! 

      All power to the People.
      • bemildred (6271 posts)
        Profile photo of bemildred Donor

        42. Let's hear it for transparency.

        It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
        • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
          Profile photo of bobthedrummer

          43. Bet the WSJ is going to run a late edition on the 1,100+ plunge but not cover

          George Papadopoulos extensively, bemildred?  Say a nominal $1.00 bet?  My gambling days ended long ago, though-it is tempting, today.

          Report:  Trump aide’s drunken night kicked off Russia investigation (Emily Stewart December 30, 2017 Vox)

          https://www.vox.com/2017/12/30/16833954/george-papadopoulos-trump-times

          All power to the People.
          • bemildred (6271 posts)
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            44. Yeah, I remember that one. Sometimes It's hard to keep up.

            Trump is like a magnet for blowhards.

            It ain't the things you don't know that hurts you, it's the things you know that ain't so.
    • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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      64. Ruin A Movie With A Name: Get Carter (Page)

      posted February 7, 2018 on Empty Wheel by Rayne (good as any other factual source)

      https://www.emptywheel.net/2018/02/07/ruin-a-movie-with-a-name-get-carter-page

      All power to the People.
    • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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      67. Here's another updated Interactive Timeline that is quite useful in this thread

      it’s by Steven Harper, still running on the Bill Moyers website-lots of Carter Page related material

      February 7, 2018 Updated Trump-Russia Timeline

      http://www.billmoyers.com/story/heres-whats-new-trump-russia-timeline

      All power to the People.
    • Aerows (4548 posts)
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      68. it wasn't overlooked.

      It was known since 2013.  Most “news” outlets attempted to suppress that information.

      © by Aerows 2018 Root: If we're just information, just noise in the system, we might as well be a symphony.
    • bobthedrummer (3664 posts)
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      69. More blowback today

      Justice department’s No 3 official to take Walmart top legal job (February 10, 2018 AP via The Guardian)

      https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/feb/10/rachel-brand-justice-department-walmart

      I hear Crocus City has an affordable holiday package for frequent fliers. :roflmao:

      All power to the People.
      • TRex (3760 posts)
        Profile photo of TRex Donor

        71. The revolving door of the C level citizen.

        So different than the rest of the 99%.

        Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?  
    • TRex (3760 posts)
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      70. Dam good research! The FBI has been playing both sides now for a long time.

      Let us not forget that this is the same FBI that likes to set up innocent people and turn them into violent terrorists or that is their hope.

      https://theintercept.com/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/

      “But if Osmakac was a terrorist, he was only one in his troubled mind and in the minds of ambitious federal agents. The government could not provide any evidence that he had connections to international terrorists. He didn’t have his own weapons. He didn’t even have enough money to replace the dead battery in his beat-up, green 1994 Honda Accord.”

      Oh sweety, no just no, when I or those of us here talk about the ultra rich - it is NOT you! Not you by a longshot, oh my God did you think...no way you actually thought we meant you? Lord, this country is full of rich stupid people and you seem to be one of the worst. No sweety, you are just a low paid pawn to those ultra rich we talk about. They are wrecking the world, you are an enabler and I understand not being able to sleep at night. I wouldn't either, selling out our future. You have kids right?  
    • Oilwellian (163 posts)
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      72. There's one oddity about Page's story that is worth mentioning

      Not long after he was a  witness in the 2015 trial of the Russian intelligence officer, he travelled to Russia again. Wasn’t that a risky thing to do considering he helped expose two of their spies?

      I’m on the fence as to whether Page was a FBI plant in Trump’s campaign or whether the FBI found him to be a perfect patsy as a means to obtain the Title I FISA warrant to spy on the entire Trump team. I hope it all becomes more clear in the coming weeks.

      • leveymg (4050 posts)
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        73. As I pointed that out in my original articles, the SVR obviously knew exactly

        what Page’s role had been as both an FBI informant, his part in passing the bugged binders, and his court testimony against the Russian agents.  The fact that Page was never arrested and allowed to travel several times thereafter tells me that both sides had him under close surveillance and were engaged in a game with him as a pawn.   Nobody in Moscow said anything to Carter Page that they didn’t want the CIA and FBI to hear.

        Nonetheless, Page ended up having a starring role in the Steele Dossier and was used to obtain the FISA warrant used to justify later surveillance on the Trump campaign.  Total fuck-up.  Nobody at FBI or DOJ thought this would ever come out because they assumed that Hillary would be elected, and all this would get buried.

        • Oilwellian (163 posts)
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          74. Yeah, it's looking more and more like he was a plant

          Imagine Page’s surprise when the dossier went public, painting him as a Russian spy. I don’t think that’s how it was supposed to work out. LOL

        • Babel 17 (4212 posts)
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          75. Only thing to make it odder would be to come home with a Russian wife

          And establish ties with those looking to overthrow the Cuban regime.

          I kid, but that is the benchmark for crazy but true narratives like this.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_Harvey_Oswald#Defection_to_the_Soviet_Union

          I think Page has been largely unwitting in all of this. He thought he was a player, and thus could be more easily used.

           

          https://www.votetulsi.com/bumper-stickers/free