Yes, Trump scares me. That's why I won't vote for Joe Biden.

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    • #304237
      Betty Karlson
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 467

      Some four years ago, JPR was kind enough to publish a lengthy OP by my hand. It was inspired by Dorkzilla’s question “I don’t understand how some gay men can vote for Hillary Clinton” but it also touched on Dan Savage, the value of life, the value of money, and the recent Brexit-referendum. If Brexit is suicide, the status quo is depression.

       

      Toward the end of that lengthy opinion piece, I wrote:

      We should not be talking about preventing Trump. We should be talking about preventing someone worse than Trump. Innovation on the left is needed: heal the depression that is the status quo before 99% of us get seriously hurt and / or killed. And I tell you this: if you want to prevent someone worse than Trump,

      – playing another round of identity politics is a bad way to do so. Why look for Wills in a time of Brians? (a reference to two different gay-themes shows that used to be on television)

      – playing a round of reactionary identity politics is an even worse way to do so – especially when you try to do so along a generational divide.

      voting for the status quo (current incarnation: Hillary Clinton) is the worst way to do so. The status quo has given us Sandra Bland’s death, Orlando, and Trump. More of the same will give us more bloodshed, and someone worse than Trump.

       

      That concern of mine still stands. Four years later, the system has got Covid-19 thrown into the mix, with astronomically high unemployment and economic anxiety. There is a new housing crisis on the horizon. And the Democrats have just nominated a demented sexually harrassing neoliberal. Yes, Trump is dangerous. Yes, he scares me.

       

      But returning to the way things used to be will only make matters worse. It will lay the groundwork for SOMEONE WORSE THAN TRUMP. Voting for Biden is a guarantee that Trump will not be the worst president in my lifetime. If my concern didn’t reach beyond the next year or two, then yes, Biden might (MIGHT) just be the lesser of two evils. But when I take the next decade into consideration, Biden is the bigger of two evils, because of the evil it will foster on the other side. Because it would throw a lifeline to a party that has spent the last thirty years shifting the Overton window to the far right.

       

      Because it would allow the Democrats to continue to exist, and block progressives that can shift the Overton window back to the centre, where it belongs. (The true centre is where Bernie is, whatever “centrists” may claim.)

       

      Trump scares me. The next Republican scares me even more. A Biden administration would make that Republican virtually inevitable. The status quo is no longer depression. The status quo is a suicide crisis. The status quo ante is more depression with a bigger suicide crisis waiting to happen. Going back to the depression is not going to solve anything. We need a long term strategy. And that strategy starts with denying Biden the power to keep things as they are. Next step: putting Nina in charge. Or Briahna. Or anyone who is stronger than Bernie.

       

      Given a choice between Trump and the next far right GOP candidate, Trump is the lesser evil. I understand the 15% Bernie supporters who want to vote Trump, although I won’t be among them.

       

      I want to find a political path that equals life. The Democratic Party is moribund, Trump and the GOP are dead to me, the status quo is suicide. That means that I need to find something new. It’s the only way out of this crisis.

       

      Be safe, all you JPR-friends. Please choose life too. For all our sakes.

    • #304289
      GZeusH
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,923

      I could find my way into that 15% of Bernie supporters who would prefer Trump.  Trump has said that Iraq was a fiasco, that he wants us out of “stupid wars”;  Biden never met a war he couldn’t support.

    • #304293
      Mindwalker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 210

      Every time the democratic party moved right, not only did the republican party move further right, they actually HAD to.  Think of it as a problem of product differentiation.  If someone makes what you already make, you’ve got to do something evem better, or with more features, or something.  As democrats took on republican positions, they forced republicans do go successively more nuts.  Even by cowering away from the possibility of being called communists and retreating from policies that would bring those calls on, republicans had to find more stuff to do.

      So yeah, having Biden the pussy-grabber, whose positions are conservative as far as social security, medicare for all, etc, will force an even crazier person than Trump.  Instead, we should be fighting back and fighting back hard.  Ask question like, why can’t Flint have clean water?  Why can’t we take care of people medically?  Why can’t the 99% have something in the world of tax breaks for the ultra-rich?  It’s socialism?  Then what is throwing money at rich people?  Why do oil companies get subsidies?  Socialism is when something is paid for by the public and owned by the public.  What we have now is public paying for things that are owned privately.  What is socialism relative to that?

      By occupying a space that is away from republicans, they don’t have to move further to the extreme.  Making a case for why being extreme right hurts people will reverse the pressure and hopefully bring them to a more sane position.

    • #304294
      David the Gnome
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,720

      Recommended for the daily radical.  @deadpool

      I didnt see things as clearly as you did in 2016.  Four years later – and a little over a year of living on SSI has enlightened me.  That – and so much time to read – and so many good writers here and elsewhere.  Some have now gone on to other things, others have passed on.

      I have been fortunate in that I have middle class parents who never cast me aside.  I am fortunate now to still have them – and my fiance who I live with now, who pays the greater part of our bills.

      The gist of it is that I worked for crappy pay/no benefits at lousy jobs for several years – tried college, couldn’t afford it and had to drop out.  I’ve got a long story, but basically being among the working class heroes broke me.

      Psychologically, physically – and in so many other ways.  I have come to understand that when you are unemployed (whatever the reason) society looks down on you.  You come to be seen as useless, parasitic – a drain on resources better spent elsewhere.

      Living with your parents, or having any of the jobs I mostly had, is almost as bad.  Very few gave me a chance to prove my worth, I think those that did came to like and even respect me, but so many reject a person like me out of hand.

      773 a month (ssi) isnt a living.  I have experienced enough now to know just how broken the system is for the many.  My fiance, with her five thousand dollar medical deductible for life saving surgery (income is around 25k per year).  My failure for many months, not long ago, to get any kind of assistance at all.

      What really made me so passionate about JPR and helped me come to love the people here was the compassion shown to me.  I posted that I was ready to give up, explained why… and Manny put together a fund raiser for me.  I was stunned by the generosity, by how many helped, by the kind words, by all the people who could relate.

      At heart, that is who I think we really are.  I think that the thoughtful, compassionate people here I have come to know represent some of the very best of humanity.  Of what and who we can be with a little empathy and kindness.

      Biden scares me, too.  I am properly disturbed by him – as I wasnt (not quite enough) by Clinton.  I know more about them and their ilk now.  I know how they will happily let everything and everyone suffer for wealth.

      It is greed – unchecked – gone utterly mad.  That is why things are so damn broken.  At the top of that chain are the likes of Bill Gates and Warren Buffett, but Senators, Congress members and Presidents get closer with every new administration.

      Their business is their own profit, it is not public service, it is not the common good.  As such, without a dramatic shift… things will only continue to get worse.

      As terrible as this pandemic and the economic crisis are and will be, I fear the stuff is only beginning to hit the fan.

      Scared, sad – and some times more angry than I can say – but more sad than anything else.

      Please keep writing, you are damn good at it.

    • #304298
      Mr. Mickeys Mom
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 4,303

      @bettykarlson You were right then, and you are right now…

      I won’t vote Trump and I won’t vote Biden. There is nothing left of the Democratic party if Bernie couldn’t save it (and I knew deep down that he wasn’t going to bee strong enough, either).

      Last time I said that the most important thing was going to be allowing a 3rd party at the State level. That process has gotten harder and harder. I say we push on, cause … life.

      Hell, no... I'm not giving up...

    • #304300
      MistaP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,744

      my thought is, if a Dem voter can rationalize voting for someone who violates subordinates, put us into debt slavery and helped steal our houses, cut welfare and repeatedly demanded SS be halted, backed NAFTA and TPP, silenced Anita Hill, backed the Hyde Amendment, was a worse Drug Warrior than Reagan and wrote the policies that put more AA men in prison than Nixon and Reagan combined, openly says he wanted Iraq knowing there were no WMDs, and was nominated due to an undemocratic, nakedly authoritarian hierarchy that respects neither the will of the people nor rule of law …

      … then MANY MORE voters will be able to rationalize doing the same with a demagogue who’s worse on some of those issues but not all, and who hasn’t caused any of the dire horrors many 2016-7 believed inevitable

      so even if you managed to convince 95% of Sanders primary voters to go Joe–well, will it be enough?

      and that’s before we get into the gravy brain, the screaming at voters, the bankrupt and nosediving campaign mysteriously resurrected with no fundraising or offices or campaigning in the states he won, overthrowing Ukraine and squeezing out some official, the crackhead babydaddy son

    • #304396
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,634

      Perhaps some vote for the blue people will read this and get a glimmer of understanding.  Although perhaps they really do understand, but have a mission.

      War is worse than anything.  Biden never met a war he did not like.  Biden never met a banker he did not obey.  FFS.

    • #304403
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 17,182

      Every time Democrats run a “centrist” or “moderate” candidate promising incremental change or feel-good fuzziness against a real Republican and win, the next Republican is worse. Carter beat Ford, then we got Reagan. Clinton beat Poppy Bush, then we got Shrub Bush. Obama was just a fucking con artist who did run on a somewhat progressive platform, and now we’ve got Trump, who most consider worse than either Shrub or Reagan.

      The counterargument was first that no one could be worse than Nixon/Ford/Kissinger, then it was Reagan and Poppy, then it was Dubya who was the Worst President Imaginable, and now it’s Trump. As Han Solo said, “I can imagine quite a lot.”

      Now, I can easily imagine far worse than Trump at the end of another disastrous Vichy Dem presidency. For me, that makes Trump the lesser evil, but he’s still an evil, so I will not vote for him either.

      Great OP. @deadpool That’s three votes for getting this on the Daily Radical.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #304411
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,193

      Thanks for posting that. So, Obama ensured a Trump would win and Biden will ensure another right wing crazy will win after him.

      It’s all because the filthy rich are pulling the strings behind the scenes. Gates and his weekly meetings enabled Trump and bagged his corporation a $10 billion. They front crazy idiots…the dumber, the more power hungry and the more willing to abuse those who voted for them, the better because they are more easily manipulated.

      When our tax dollars and our great grand children’s tax dollars are consigned to support the filthy rich and their mansions and travel, that’s called facism. Or as some call it government welfare for the filthy rich….and the filthy rich like what Trump, Obama and Biden did to line their pockets at the expense of all of us. To the filthy rich, Biden and Trump are just business as usual no matter how many Americans die due to lack of organization, lack of coordination and just plain laziness.

       

       

    • #304602
      Deadpool
      Keymaster
      • Total Posts: 4,020
    • #304633
      peacecorps
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,131

      It is true that re-electing our modern ‘Herbert Hoover’ (tax cuts, deregulation, isolationism, etc.) may lead to modern FDR in 2024. Re-electing this conservative corporatist may lead to another Great Depression too.

      The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

      "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

      National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

      • #304639
        PolecatHollerer
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,214

        Betty K explained it well.

        If you give a man enough rope, it will be six inches too short. This is not the nature of rope- it is the nature of man.

      • #304652
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 17,182

        @peacecorps Something like that was going to happen anyway. Maybe a Great Depression is what it takes to give Americans the swift kick in the ass they need to get up and demand real change that helps them–or else.

        It did take the Great Depression to give us FDR. Maybe it will take something like it to give us people who will exercise power for the sake of most of the people instead of most of the top 10%.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #305284
      Enthusiast
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,579

      Great post, Betty! And excellent posts from everyone else! Our current circumstances are making me crazy. I do not know what to do.

      I would like to remind you that U.S. health insurance companies do not contribute anything to health care. They are only a PARASITIC middle man receiving an undeserved cut of "FREE MONEY".

      Me

    • #306066
      Scott Crowder
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 89

      Getting me to vote for Biden is simple:  Make Bernie the VP.

      I mean, if Biden really wants to defeat Trump AT ALL COSTS, then it’s a no brainer.  Making Bernie the VP would unite the party and he’d cruise to a win.

      If he won’t make such a no brainer decision to win, then he doesn’t really want to win and why should I vote for a man who doesn’t really want to win?

      #BernieOrVest

    • #309149
      Piperay
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 248

      Biden will never ever get my vote 👎 I’ll  leave it blank first!

      • #309203
        MizzGrizz
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,464

        Biden has been after that great social program for a long time.He supported Obama’s backing of chained CPI,meant to cut benefits for old people,and just a few days ago Simpson and Bowles,the infamous Catfooders,hosted a fund raiser for him.What does that tell us ?

        Trump,of course,wants to cut Social Security too—although he said he didn’t—but if he tries,Congress will make a show of stopping him.They won’t with Biden.

    • #327485
      Bluesuedeshoes
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    • #327575
      mrdmk
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,241

      and by the above metric, what does that make the Republicans?

      If you cannot dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit WC Fields

      • #327588
        Betty Karlson
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 467

        It’s like the gazelles are asked whether they want to be eaten by the lions or the hyenas:

         

        “But the lions are much nobler!” (classic perception)

        “But the hyenas have female leadership!” (actually true: hyenas are matriarchal)

        “But the lions will keep out the buffalos!” (they won’t: more to eat is very much in their interest)

        “But if you don’t vote for the hyenas, you must be prejudiced against elephants!” (makes no sense, but then what does?)

        “Why the fuck are the elephants stampeding ?!”

        “We are listening to the elephants! Pachiderm kids are just as bright as real herbivores.”

        “Make the savannah great again!”

        “The savannah is already great!”

         

        “Maybe our base would be fired up if the Supreme Court didn’t give giraffes the right to marry!”

        “I wouldn’t be here if that long-nosed interloper hadn’t primaried me! Will the Viviroidea-Jackal PAC please come to my defense?”

    • #327595
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 960

      We have to wait and see about voter participation this

      time around. Most Americans have been indoctrinated

      that their inability to get a decent job is their “choice” or

      their failure. The pandemic may have changed all of that.

      The increase in homelessness with a real 20% unemployment

      may cause a serious rebellion. The question then is: in

      which direction will it go? It could lead to an FDR, but

      equally to a choice like the one in 1933 in Germany. We

      should not forget that July signals the end of unemployment

      payments, but the election takes place in November.

    • #327601
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 961

      We have so much crazy going on, right now and I think it will get much worse in the fall. Think about what this 2020 as gotten us thus far. A huge pandemic, another stolen election, the complete lack on the part of the D party to even bother hiding it anymore. 2 complete imbeciles running for the White House, massive protests by the youth and massive police violence and spying by there over lords.  Threats by the sinking empire towards everyone and anyone. Look for a future color revolution in Belarus. Israel getting ready to slaughter and steal the homes of thousand. The continuing destruction of the slave state Libya.  Anger throughout the world at the US empire.  I am trying to figure out what we as a family need to do?

      massive fires in the southwest. Already 3 tropical storms, flooding in the south tornadoes in Canada.

      Earthartist

    • #327604
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,550

      Winning matters most, even at the expense of lying about stuff, anything and everything.

      Voting for a liar puts your stamp of approval on it.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

      • #327613
        Betty Karlson
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 467

        I think I should be revisiting some more arguments from that article written four years ago.

        One argument concerns the recent Supreme Court ruling, and how the Evangelicals have just been duped by Trump.

        The other is about Trump’s impopularity and how that makes Joe Biden a lesser evil by default (except that objectively, it doesn’t).

        And writing this I realise that I should write two, rather than one OP to address those points.

    • #368860
      tonyl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 62

      I wrote that whilst ever you have Trump in the Presidency; you don’t have Hillary Clinton.

      I regard Joe Biden as simply the marionette of the oligarchs (the tip of the spear being that disappointment; Obama) and it seems to me that nothing has changed in the US (given that Bernie is no longer in the running). I agree wholeheartedly with Betty.

      I’m still observing .. I don’t see any politician on the horizon who will work for the people but you never know. What I DO see is the gradual diminution of the US as a great power (I think the trajectory is roughly akin the that of Great Britain which, as we know, is no longer great).

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