Yes, We Mean Literally Abolish the Police

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    • #326333
      JonLP
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,107

      By

      Ms. Kaba is an organizer against criminalization.

       

      Congressional Democrats want to make it easier to identify and prosecute police misconduct; Joe Biden wants to give police departments $300 million. But efforts to solve police violence through liberal reforms like these have failed for nearly a century.

      (snip)

      There is not a single era in United States history in which the police were not a force of violence against black people. Policing in the South emerged from the slave patrols in the 1700 and 1800s that caught and returned runaway slaves. In the North, the first municipal police departments in the mid-1800s helped quash labor strikes and riots against the rich. Everywhere, they have suppressed marginalized populations to protect the status quo.

      (snip)

      We should redirect the billions that now go to police departments toward providing health care, housing, education and good jobs. If we did this, there would be less need for the police in the first place.

      (snip)

      What about rape? The current approach hasn’t ended it. In fact most rapists never see the inside of a courtroom. Two-thirds of people who experience sexual violence never report it to anyone. Those who file police reports are often dissatisfied with the response. Additionally, police officers themselves commit sexual assault alarmingly often. A study in 2010 found that sexual misconduct was the second most frequently reported form of police misconduct. In 2015, The Buffalo News found that an officer was caught for sexual misconduct every five days.

      https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/12/opinion/sunday/floyd-abolish-defund-police.html#click=https://t.co/YpMQE5llNs

    • #326347
      Voltairine
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      • Total Posts: 1,797
    • #326349
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 14,449

      This movement would be much more effective if it emphasized local control. What works for cities cannot be expected to work for rural areas, and neither one should force what it prefers on the other. Such an approach would also garner more support.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      Show me a man that gets rich by being a politician, and I'll show you a crook.--Harry Truman

    • #326355
      a little weird
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 640

      I really don’t believe a majority of people are ready to do away entirely with police.  Cut their funding way down, demilitarize them, get rid of police unions (or make them just another part of public employee unions not specific to police), add them to the regular public employee pension systems rather than having their own, require them to carry liability insurance, and get rid of qualified immunity.  I think most people can get behind those ideas.

      But when some crazy asshole starts shooting up a mall or movie theater, for example, I want to be able to call an armed police officer.   They are certainly overused and in many cases the tasks that they perform would be better done by mental health professionals or something like that, but there are reasons to have police – we just need to demand better ones.  I think this is going to come down more to decisions made at local levels than at the national level so maybe abolishing the police could be tried somewhere and we can see how it goes and try some other solutions in other places.

      • #326367
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,107

        That is what is frustrating me like they are worried about losing other peoples vote when my vote isn’t even wrapped up. It is like all my concerns don’t matter. Every time a position I support is dumped in favor of chasing some other voter. I don’t care anymore if something is popular or not.

         

        Mass shootings can be better addressed solving the gun problem that is actually more difficult than reforming a local police department.

        • #326432
          a little weird
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 640

          To make a change like that you have to convince enough people to do it – especially if you’re talking about something that’s under local control.  I don’t think abolishing the police has broad enough support to make it happen anytime soon, but I could be wrong.  And yes I agree that the mass shooting problem could be greatly improved by reforming gun laws.  Do you think that’s something that’s likely to happen anytime soon?  Do we have to wait to abolish the police until that task is accomplished?

      • #326372
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,797

        “There are reasons to have police.” Yep, the reason to have police is to hunt slaves etc. protect the possession  of the owning class.

        Aloha!

    • #326371
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,683

      Vigilantes?   The military?  Boy Scouts?

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #326375
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,797

        Girl scouts.

        Girl Scout Cookies is an indica-dominant hybrid with a strong sativa component (40:60 sativa/indica ratio). This strain can reach THC levels of up to 28%, meaning it’s one of the most potent strains available to medical marijuana patients. This strain provides the best aspects of both sativa and indica, and the high is powerful, happy, and euphoric, but with couch-lock body effects and feelings of lethargy. Girl Scout Cookies tastes sweet and earthy, and it smells much the same. It’s most effective at treating anxiety, stress, and depression, though it’s also good for appetite. Dry mouth is the only likely adverse effect, though others are possible. This strain began as a crossbreed of OG Kush and a near-even hybrid; (Durban Poison X F1). Girl Scout Cookies first appeared in California and is now one of the most popular strains in North America, where sells best on the West Coast and in Michigan. The high lasts for hours, making Girl Scout Cookies a good deal in most places. It can be difficult to grow, but it’s fast becoming a staple among home cultivators.
        https://www.allbud.com/marijuana-strains/indica-dominant-hybrid/girl-scout-cookies

        Aloha!

      • #326382
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,107

        With Neoliberalism the police is tasked to handle problems of inequality. For example I have seen police watch the homeless at CASS (Central Arizona Shelter Services). I was homeless while Occupy protests were going on I was in line for dinner another homeless person mentioned the complaints about policing costs for Occupy Protests noticed the police presence and asked, “how much does it comes to watch the bums?”

        Those resources would be better served by programs for the homeless.

        Police are often the first ones to respond to mental health emergencies when they are not qualified when it would be better served to redirect sources that serve mental health.

         

        People with Untreated Mental Illness 16 Times More Likely to Be Killed By Law Enforcement

        https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/key-issues/criminalization-of-mental-illness/2976-people-with-untreated-mental-illness-16-times-more-likely-to-be-killed-by-law-enforcement-

        • #326387
          bazukhov
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,683

          Who enforces the laws?    Not just against the homeless or shoplifters but the real crooks, the violent ones, the banksters, the corrupt politicians?

          Do the cops need to be reformed?   You bet they do.   But, lawlessness isn’t reform.  It’s barbarism and  “survival of the strongest”.

          Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

          • #326388
            JonLP
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 2,107

            Or you are focused on the headline. The best thing to do is listen to activists doing the heavy lifting on the ground and are experts on policing & criminal justice reform. This information is easily available if you seek it out.

             

            I have been homeless it is already what you describe at that level. It is dog eat dog world and the police were no fucking help.

        • #326389
          jerry611
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 889

          Well mental illness is another issue entirely. We are REALLY bad with that this country. Towards the end of the Reagan era, we started closing all our mental health hospitals and facilities. The Democrats thought it was better and more humane for mentally ill people to be among society and not in hospitals. Meanwhile the Republicans liked ending those budgets. But the people who have the illness ended up getting screwed and left to fend for themselves. Many ended up in prison and so our prisons are now makeshift mental health facilities.

           

      • #326410
        GZeusH
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,587

        You’re making this too difficult if you think the police perform some useful function.

        Every county in the U.S. has a county sheriff, and sheriff’s deputies usually patrol those areas of the county that are not covered in a city police jurisdiction.  If someone has to be arrested and held for arraignment at a court, sheriff’s deputies can do that just fine.   Often the same type of bullies who end up on police forces end up being sheriff’s deputies,

        I think every county in the U.S. also has a marshal, who is more an officer of the court and serves summons and makes sure that people show up for their court dates.  Between the county sheriff and the county marshal, the law has enough long arms to reach out and touch someone they want to talk to.

        Which leaves the non-criminal side of what the police do: responding to domestic violence calls, dealing with the mentally imbalanced, finding lost toddlers, telling people to turn down their music, making sure rowdy drunks can find a place to sleep it off, etc.   Sure, some of this may rise to the level of misdemeanors, but the public would be better served with a social worker trained in psychology than some lower than average intelligence mule who is hopped up on steroids.

        Go watch some old episodes of Dragnet, and triage the calls they get.  Which would go to the sheriff, which would go to the marshal, and which would go to the social workers?

         

    • #326380
      bazukhov
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,683

      Or, denying them merit badges?    Requiring them to sing along with the campfire songs?

      Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

      • #326386
        JonLP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,107

        We lock up too many people. Certainly I support high end investigation but the many other tasks are better left to someone other than cops. I don’t support locking people up for low level offenses including drugs.

        I posted an excerpt that shows cops are bad at rape investigations and sure enough we have a choice of 2 rapists for President.

        • #326390
          bazukhov
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 2,683

          We can start by cutting the military budget by about 90%.   The cops, at least, sometimes actually do serve and protect the people.  The military’s main purpose is to kill people.

          Tell me, great captain, how do the angels sleep when the devil leaves his porch light on? Tom Waites

          • #326391
            jerry611
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 889

            Oh but you can’t do that….then you won’t be able to contain the Russians!

          • #326393
            JonLP
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 2,107

            Followed Roe waited until gunfire to fire gunfire back only by the gun trucks. The way the police treats its own citizens in this country is disgusting. What happened in Lafayette Square & police brutally suppressing protests in general including killing unarmed people is worse than anything my convoys did in Iraq except for not supposed to be there in the first place.

            Generally lower enlisted soldiers are not as authoritarian as cops.

      • #326455
        Voltairine
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 1,797

        Community = social networking of women. Also, when necessary, women have no trouble getting bunch of guys to do what physical coercing they consider necessary.

        Aloha!

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