You may hate me for this rant, and that’s okay

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    • #392468
      sadoldgirl
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,207

      One: Don’t ever underestimate the profound influence

      of the M$M even quite a lot on social media.

      Two:Distain and hatred of Trumpsters is self-defeating.

      If you look at this for what it is: A class war.

      Three: The truly powerful will fight them as well as you

      to the bitter end. As a matter of fact they fear the Left

      far more than the RWNs.

      Those, who really have power ,and that does not include

      a bought government, will always use DIVIDE AND CONQUER

      as the best method to achieve their goals.

      Four: Owning or influencing media, and I mean all of them, is

      a huge part to control their needed propaganda and indoctrination.

      We know that operation Mockingbird never stopped, and that

      under Obama they were even sanctioned.

      As soon as Trump won and showed a bit of deviation of their

      script, the machine went into attack. What many here saw as

      a danger in him, did not bother TPTB. Racism, narcissism,

      and all other of  the criticism was just okay, because it further

      caused a division. However, in his arrogance, he exposed the

      system for what it was/is. All of a sudden the term “empire”

      became more popular than before. That had to be stopped. After all,

      as we found out recently, the CIA gave high approval to Obama, because

      he could and did sugarcoat any more wars or “colored revolutions”. He

      also was already in the pocket of Wall Street and most other corporations.

      Well, since Trump had become a thorn in the establishment’s eyes, he was

      fought in every way, although he was forced to quietly submit to the

      turtle’s plans. Thus he too became a tool. What was somehow unexpected

      by TPTB, that he was able to manipulate a huge amount of people in a very

      weird way. Many thought that he fought for them against the “government”.

      He was very shrewd in that. The fact that 74 million voted for him in 20 was

      no accident. I keep out of the fight over who won the election. Nobody can

      know due to the electronic voting machines. Still, for just my thinking, it was

      odd that he lost Arizona and Georgia. Trump’s insistence (obviously engrained

      in his character) that he won and his manipulated or otherwise inclined

      followers did not just scream about this, but also felt reassured that DC did

      not give a hoot about them. And that, friends, is the real issue.  Given the pandemic

      and the constrictions of working, no government help in a real sense, therefore

      more anti government anger than they had before they took action, when asked

      by THEIR president to fight it.

      Again, this is truly a class fight. I don’t condone violence, but considering

      the thousands of  people this was minor.  So where , but to show was the Left? It despises the

      Trumpsters but shows no solidarity to fight for the right of the people to any substential

      degree.Thus do we leave the fight to the right?

      Allons enfin  de la patrie:Aux armes citoyens, formez les bataillons!Marchons! Marchons!

      We have to find common ground with those you may detest to fight the true enemy

    • #392472
      ThouArtThat
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 4,543

      @sadoldgirl

      Hi sog,

      No argument here. My contempt for Vichy Dems having cheated Bernie not once but twice may not rise to the anger the right has for the likes of Pelosi and Schumer. However, it may not be far behind. My difference with the right would be an equal contempt for Rethuglicans, Turtle Mitch and his crew. And trumping all that would be outright loathing of the Oligarchs, Corporations and Banks. So in an odd way, as you suggest, I have more in common with the right than with the “Boutique Left” and their enablers – the DNC DLC DCCC DSCC Third Way Donors and Defenders.

      In sum that would mean I am a broad band “contempter” of the present America political system and their overlords. I wonder if the right is ready to fight everyone?

      TAT

      “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
      - John F. Kennedy

      "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
      - George Orwell

      "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
      - Jiddu Krishnamurti

      "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
      - Idries Shah

      "A riot is the language of the unheard."
      - Martin Luther King

    • #392473
      rudycantfail
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 338

      These are the important bigger picture, strategic issues that almost never discussed by the left.

    • #392477
      Fasttense
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,535

      The filthy rich love Trump because they got soooooo much richer under the guise of the pandemic.

      So he conned a few of the not so smart and they tried to make him king. They may try again

      This is Not the starving serfs attacking the Bastille. This is King Louis leading a well fed privileged class to attack the National Assembly.

      Enthroning a King is not a revolution of the downtrodden.

      • #392539
        ThouArtThat
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,543

        @fasttense

        Hi ft,

        Please refrain from making sweeping generalizations about the socio-economic net worth of insurrectionists on January 6th. For all one knows the majority may be dirt poor and bummed rides from others to reach the capitol.

        TAT

        “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
        - John F. Kennedy

        "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
        - George Orwell

        "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
        - Jiddu Krishnamurti

        "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
        - Idries Shah

        "A riot is the language of the unheard."
        - Martin Luther King

        • #392622
          Fasttense
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 1,535

          They looked well fed and warmly dressed to me. Just compare how gently the police treated them to how police treat BLM protesters or any anti war protesters. That is white privilege if I ever saw it. White privilege usually comes with an economic reward in a capitalist society. This is white supremacists fighting to keep that privilege.

          And who has made out well in this pandemic? Who would want to enthrone a King Trump? Not the poor.

          I know some people here think these Trump supporters represent the starving masses. But I see little evidence of it.

          Why would the poor want a King Trump? Trump has done practically nothing for the poor except feed them hate.

          I agree they are not the filthy rich. And I didn’t mean to imply that. The filthy rich do not fight the wars at least not anymore. They pay people or con people to do that for them.

          These are the remains of the white middle class. They are probobally as afraid for their economic future as the rest of us. The economy has collapsed and it threatens all of us.

          But they are not the downtrodden, starving masses. It’s about white supremacist fighting to keep the power over the rest of us. They are fighting for their fading white privilege.

           

           

          • #392732
            chknltl
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 1,287

            Follow me to the beer garden tents of S.E. Pierce Co. Washington.

            You will find plenty of poor to middle class folks here.

            You will find plenty of opinions and conspiracy theories here.

            What you will hardly find here are so called “lib-er-als”.

            You should see their eyes go round, their jaws drop when I tell them that I am a Progressive.

            A “#%&**$*@Progressive???!!” You mean like one of those  Bernie supporting SOCIALIST Progressives?

            I would be better accepted at that monent if I started out by praising Satan!

            But continue I must.

            It is when I point to our commonalities that they soften.

            “Do you folks think Pelosi is a pile of dog poo?” I ask. “Well let me assure you that I feel the same way about her!”

            “Do you folks feel that ‘OUR’ government represents ‘US’?” I ask next. “Well guess what, I don’t think they do either!”

            “Yeah but you want to take away our health care by socializing it and take away our guns” they add.

            “Um, no, I’ve no beef with our 2nd Amendment but as a 100% disabled Vet I can assure you that my V.A. medical plan works great!

            “AND, should I so choose, I can still seek health care outside of the VA.”

            “My chiropractor for instance is not with the VA. I pay out of pocket for his services.”

            “Because of my not having to pay for pharmaceuticals or dental or pretty much all of the rest of my health care, I can afford to pay for his chiropractic services.”

            I then go on to tell them that I want what I have as a medical plan for them and for their loved ones and for everyone here in our country.

            Always they ask: “But who is gonna pay for it?”

            “Um…if you think about it, YOU will be footing that bill. If you further think about it YOU are already footing that bill by paying out of pocket for higher hospital costs, outrageous pharmaceutical costs and sky high uneccessary insurance costs plus their premiums.”

            “YOUR bill would be in the form of taxes, it would not be as high as what you currently pay and FWIW all of your arguments against this “socializing” of our health care were once trotted out against us vets getting our “socialised” VA health care…surely you do not begrudge us that!”

            Their arguments generally end there but you can see it in their eyes that I just farted in their church….  They know that I must be wrong but they don’t have a counter argument.

            There is more I could go into regarding what blue team and red team supporters share in my area but make no mistake about it: around here, red team and blue team supporters come in all the variety of shades of economic status.

            Lastly, rich or poor, we are Americans.

             

             

             

          • #392769
            ThouArtThat
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 4,543

            @fasttense

            HI ft,

            Whether or not the insurrectionists were coddled has no bearing on a sweeping statement about their socio-eceonomic status. Please stop making such generalization for which we do not have data.

            TAT

            “Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
            - John F. Kennedy

            "The further a society drifts from the truth the more it will hate those who speak it."
            - George Orwell

            "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
            - Jiddu Krishnamurti

            "Sometimes a pessimist is only an optimist with extra information."
            - Idries Shah

            "A riot is the language of the unheard."
            - Martin Luther King

            • #393370
              Bernin4U
              Participant
              • Total Posts: 506

              @fasttense @thouartthat

              The desired optics here are that trumpers do receive far better treatment than BLM protesters. This serves to sow further resentment against the “privileged” trumpers.

              Also, the last thing the msm would want to show are trumpers getting the snot beat out of them. This would risk creating feelings of sympathy -or worse, solidarity – among both groups.

              Instead we now have police getting all the sympathy.

              Divisiveness is paramount here. We must hate them and reduce them to mindless cartoon characters. (Trump Bros?)

      • #392582
        peacecorps
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,223

        to gain/hold on to power. To portray our most recent example as some kind of class warrior who righteously confronts the PTB gives him too much credit.

        I will acknowledge that his is a great actor (his TV experience has served him well) at playing the role of populist hero – while he is giving the PTB everything they want – conservative judges, tax cuts, deregulation, military spending, a booming stock market, you-name-it. His skill is being able to hide from his base his PTB-pandering while he plays the ‘populist’ directing their anger at the ‘radical left’ – socialists, communists, environmentalist, etc.

        I only hope that the ‘radical left’ can figure out how to turn his perverted, insincere form of populism into a genuine one.

        The Big Lie: "Make the lie big, Make it simple, Keep saying it, And eventually they will believe it." AH.

        "Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect." JG

        National issues (slavery/racism, income inequality, pandemics and pathetic health care, weak unions) are not solved with more states' rights. Global problems (climate change, migration, trade, war, pandemics) are not solved with more nationalism.

      • #392686
        MistaP
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 2,921

        the wily turncoat was reported behind the scenes at every unrest recorded, changed his name to Philippe Égalité and voted to execute his dear old cousin (he was himself razored, but wouldn’t ya know it, his son does take over in a bougie revolution 1830)

        and Robespierre felt obligated to go after the enragés first

    • #392551
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,152

      @sadoldgirl.

      I don’t condone the pipe bombs and  guns and Molotov cocktails and no sane person would,but there are big-picture areas in this that the media won’t touch.

      Like their own role in stirring this up,treating every election challenge he made like a cliffhanger that this time..this time..he might be able to pull it off,when they knew all along he never could and never would.

      The system knew he couldn’t do it.But when they led the public on to think he could,all in the name of ratings,they shouldn’t have been so surprised that his faithful descended on Washington and took his words as a rallying cry to tear the place apart.You can only tease people,get their hopes up for so long,and then they react.

      It was the election results this time..but tomorrow it might be lack of stimulus money,or some such thing.

      That Bob Marley line comes to mind:”Every day the bucket goes in the well/One day the bottom will drop out.”

      • #393371
        Bernin4U
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 506

        @mizzgrizz

        are intelligent and very successful people. And seem to remain convinced that there may still be a path for Trump, just based on info circulating out there.

        Of course it may sound ridiculous to most, but how about people thinking Bernie would be given a chance the second time? Let alone the thousands of people on Twitter last summer, hoping Biden would drop out and hand it to Bernie?

         

        • #393376
          Cold Mountain Trail
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 12,041

          “Trumpers I’ve known  are intelligent and very successful people.”

          what, you mean they’re not all struggling dead end kids down on their luck because of the pandemic?

          you mean they’re petit bourgeoisie who have happily gone along with economic and political repression for 50 years as long as the repression was biting other people?

           

           

           

           

    • #392558
      EvilLurker
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 36

      I agree with this. Trump has done more to divide and TPTB don’t have a problem with that part of it. What’s worse now is even Fox lost a lot of Trump supporters. They’re getting news from alt-right sites pushing Q propaganda. They think Q is real and that’s scary.

    • #392559
      djean111
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 5,827

      100%.  Also, anyone who would hate you for this – is not worth your attention.

      This is not a rant, this is a cogent and clear list.  Thank you!

      America is not a country, it's just a business. (Brad Pitt, Killing Them Softly)

    • #392564
      Ohio Barbarian
      Moderator
      • Total Posts: 19,954

      Some retirees, but there were mostly younger people there that I saw, and really privileged people don’t risk getting teargassed or beaten for the most part. While there is no hard evidence that there was any election fraud in the general election, there has been a long history of such fraud dating back to the 2000 election.

      Combine that with the constant lies of the corporate media for the last several decades, or even for the last two, with the proven duplicity of the leadership of both main political parties, and it is unsurprising that so many people have no trust left in the entire federal government. That always makes some more susceptible to con men, be they slick like Obama or crass like Trump.

      One positive takeaway is that, regardless of their motivations, the Trumper insurrectionists did prove that the capitol can be stormed. That’s a lesson that the entire working class will remember.

      To conclude, I certainly don’t hate you for this. In fact, I mostly agree with you, so they can hate me too.

      It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

      You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #392600
      closeupready
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,173

      Americans are struggling worse than ever except probably the Great Depression. Our friends and neighbors abroad have governments providing them with help until the economy can reopen. Most get MONTHLY help, until the pandemic is over. And I mean, rent, food, utilities, the works. That’s what most parents do for their dependent children.

      The US government shuts down businesses, puts people out of work, and offers nothing but a $1,200 bone with a hard-fought $600 extra 8 months later.

      There really is no hyperbole needed, no editorialization. The facts speak for themselves. The dissonance is right there, for everyone to see – no media needed to tell us “how should we think about this?” or “what should people take away?”

      Struggling young people have a lot of time on their hands right now, nobody is helping, and historically, that leads to instability. Don’t take my word for it – read about the Bolsheviks, Louis the XVIth, China’s last emperor, etc. Am I right, am I wrong, figure it out for yourselves. I don’t see things happening like that here. I am worried though because there is a lot crappy stuff that can be done to repress a society that refuses to obey, even in a free society.

      The opinions and personal views expressed herein are solely those of the author, and should never be taken seriously.

    • #392612
      Earthartist
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,328

      Sadoldgirl nice rant!  I was listening to one of the guys going on about why he was their, it was not very different then why we would be their with the exception of doing this for Trump and white people. Other then that it was all about how the government was not taking care of it’s own people. I thought, what would have happened if antifa, BLM the enviros the unions the nurses, firefighters  had all joined in? That would have been the end of the government! The sad thing is the racist aspect of many of these people will make it really hard to join forces, massive intervention will be needed.

      I am really glad this happened, I think a very clear warning went out to the PTB they are going to try and paint this as just a trump thing but deep down they know it was way beyond that, just like the protests this summer and occupy were all warnings, this one is much more in their face. Add to it the tagging of both pelosi and McConnell’s houses direct attacks on their personal property. Both parties having bombs placed on their doorsteps.

      I will hand it to the right they took the 1st step.  The concern I have is the proud boys and their ilk are not interested in anything but authoritarian government so how do we get everyone else away from this group of racists..  Many of them have been this way for a supper long time educated in the military or police, or years of family indoctrination, or payed and  trained by the Koch brothers for years now?

      Earthartist

      • #392623
        incognito
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 4,574

        “I thought, what would have happened if antifa, BLM the enviros the unions the nurses, firefighters  had all joined in?”

        But for their Nazi movement and anti everyone that isn’t white, the government could easily be taken down.

        If ALL groups came together, game over. The elites know that too.

        Progressives, Greens, DSA, SANE GOP, ANTIFA, BLM, all Unions…. yikes. The power in that is too big for any government to overpower.


        @earthartist

        • #392665
          GZeusH
          Participant
          • Total Posts: 3,662

          As long as they are toxic enough to keep other factions from uniting, they are doing the work of the overlord classes — keep the rabble divided and fighting among themselves.

          Corporate America consists of totalitarian entities laser-focused on short-term greed.

    • #392669
      salemcourt
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 2,630

      And recommend this to the daily radical.

    • #392765
      xyzse
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 1,763

      Thanks, and it must be said.

      Even the Squad is advocating for censorship and I am not liking that one bit.

    • #392963
      eridani
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 8,410

      It says that the government can’t censor you.  Private parties can do what they damned well please.

      Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

      • #393396
        Ohio Barbarian
        Moderator
        • Total Posts: 19,954

        Two examples of which are Facebook and Twitter. They really need to be treated as public utilities. That’s another issue, but I have a problem with them shutting down the President of the United States based on what they feel is most likely to increase their profits.

        If they can shut Trump down, they can shut anyone down. I don’t like that one bit.

        It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

        You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

    • #393098
      MizzGrizz
      Participant
      • Total Posts: 3,152

      ..@eridani,where government and Big Business work together,censorship by a private company IS government censorship.

      • #393361
        eridani
        Participant
        • Total Posts: 8,410

        Legally they are separate entities.

        Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

        • #393397
          Ohio Barbarian
          Moderator
          • Total Posts: 19,954

          It was once legal to own slaves and whip them to death. You sound like you would have just shrugged back then and said, “Well, it’s legal, so the overseer did nothing wrong.”

          It is better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.--Eugene Debs

          You can jail a revolutionary, but you can't jail the revolution.--Fred Hampton

          • #393937
            eridani
            Participant
            • Total Posts: 8,410

            It took a major war to end it, which is still our top-ranking war in terms of overall casualties.

            Jesus: Hey, Dad? God: Yes, Son? Jesus: Western civilization followed me home. Can I keep it? God: Certainly not! And put it down this minute--you don't know where it's been! Tom Robbins in Another Roadside Attraction

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