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Democratic Primary Election Fraud
MRM1024 (234 posts)July 30, 2016 at 8:25 pm
Democratic Primary Election Fraud
I have heard 11 or even 12 states have evidence of voter fraud. I think anyone keeping up with it cannot dispute what has happened. With Election Justice USA’s investigation saying that Bernie Sanders would have one, I don’t think anyone up-to-date can argue that it is just a conspiracy anymore. More important to me is keeping up with information, and finding out if there is a course of action that people should be taking. Does anyone know what group is supposed to respond to the recommendations of EJUSA after their investigation? They made statements about ‘decertification’ of the election and ideas to keep this from happening again. Has anyone heard anything recently about the Ohio Racketeering (RICO) lawsuit? I think this is one of the important ones because it can bring in every State with evidence beyond a reasonable doubt of election fraud. Beyond that I just have to say I am very frustrated with the media and all the politicians acting as if nothing is wrong. They have to know what is going on. It is like they are complicit in the fraud.A little weird, Peace Patriot, snot and 13 othersDoremus Jessup, MsConduct, Melissa G, 99thMonkey, DesertRat2015, 7wo7rees, eridani, NVBirdlady, Mom Cat, Crabby Abbey, Lorien, GZeusH, djean111 like this
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99thMonkey (3870 posts) (Reply to original post) July 31, 2016 at 12:09 pm
1. But, but … What about the Russians?!?!?
Pay no attention to the blatant DNC election fraud in front of your face … looky over there!
The RUSSIANS are to blame for this mess.
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to original post) August 1, 2016 at 1:02 am
2. The election integrity folks estimate thqt fraud cost Sanders 184 delegates
Probably why hi didn’t pursue the issue, as that wouldn’t have been enough to win..You've heard of the Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West, right? I'm the Morally Ambiguous Witch of the Northwest.
MRM1024 (234 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #2) August 1, 2016 at 4:51 am
3. couple of things
Hi eridani. Although the 184 may have not been enough to win, it was at least enough to be winning. (You also will be taking them away from Hillary) The other thing is that I don’t think this estimate includes a lot of things. I though it only included factual evidence as opposed to things that would have had some effect that would have been hard to estimate. Things like the lack of coverage that Bernie received in the media etc. I could be wrong but all things considered this is probably a low estimate.
Smiley (303 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #2) August 1, 2016 at 7:30 pm
4. I hadn't heard that estimate…
Do you have a link for it? I’d love to see what that is based on.
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Smiley - post #4) August 1, 2016 at 11:23 pm
5. From Election Justice USAYou've heard of the Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West, right? I'm the Morally Ambiguous Witch of the Northwest.
Smiley (303 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #5) August 2, 2016 at 4:52 pm
6. Thanks for the link! That 184 turns into 368….
and enough to erase Hillary’s 359 pledge delegate count.
From your link….
Based on this work, Election Justice USA has established an upper estimate of 184 pledged delegates lost by Senator Bernie Sanders as a consequence of specific irregularities and instances of fraud. Adding these delegates to Senator Sanders’ pledged delegate total and subtracting the same number from Hillary Clinton’s total would more than erase the 359 pledged delegate gap between the two candidates. EJUSA established the upper estimate through exit polling data, statistical analysis by precinct size, and attention to the details of Democratic proportional awarding of national delegates. Even small changes in vote shares in critical states like Massachusetts and New York could have substantially changed the media narrative surrounding the primaries in ways that would likely have had far reaching consequences for Senator Sanders’ campaign.
We conclude by calling for decertification of the 2016 Democratic primary results in every state in which we have established a reasonable doubt as to the accuracy of the vote tally. Finally, we wish to bring the reader’s attention to three simple reforms that would eliminate the mere possibility of the vast majority of fraud types demonstrated or evidenced in this report:
1) Exclusive use of hand-counted paper ballots in all future US elections.
2) Automatic voter registration, with same-day party affiliation switching as a mandatory condition for all elections that are publicly funded.
3) Restoration of voting rights legislation which would ensure adequate access to polling sites.
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Smiley - post #6) August 2, 2016 at 5:00 pm
7. Hand counted paper ballots are ridiculous, except in small towns
The best we can hope for is a random auditing by hand count–one contest at a time. Counting more than two contests by hand results in a steadily increasing and totally unacceptable error rate. In King County (2nd largest in the country next to LA) there are 17 state legislative districts, parts of four congressional districts, 39 cities, school boards, utility commissions, and initiatives/referenda.You've heard of the Good Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West, right? I'm the Morally Ambiguous Witch of the Northwest.
Smiley (303 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #7) August 2, 2016 at 7:41 pm
8. Yes that would be burdensome.
But what’s a better solution? Hand counted ballots are really the only way to ensure the vote is not getting hacked electronically. Which I absolutely believe is occurring.
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Smiley - post #8) August 2, 2016 at 11:47 pm
9. Scanned paper ballots with mandatory audits as specified by the–
–American Statistical Association. When more than two races are counted concurrently, hand counts are abysmally inaccurate. People are just not up to the job of dealing with a county having 17 state legislative districts and parts of 4 congressional districts.
Smiley (303 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #9) August 3, 2016 at 4:00 pm
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Smiley - post #10) August 4, 2016 at 2:46 am
11. All thwt is necessary is make audits mandatory and to pay for them n/t
Peace Patriot (3083 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #11) September 10, 2016 at 10:31 am
13. I wish that were true, eridani, but the problem is PRIVATIZATION!
It’s not just the ‘TRADE SECRET’ code in the vote counting systems – code that the public is forbidden to review – and who owns that code and what their politics are (yup, far, far RW) – which is bad enough – which is, indeed, horrible, and makes massive election fraud EASY – it’s the INVASION of private corporations and the corporate culture itself into our vote counting system, including EASY electronic purges of voter rolls, including the corporate culture of secrecy and contempt for, and manipulation of, the public, including corrupt corporate lobbying of election officials and cushy “conferences” for them at places like the Beverly Hilton, including “revolving door” employment, and more.
Our vote counting system has been CORPORATIZED. It no longer belongs to “we, the people.” And I don’t care how we do it, but we MUST return vote counting to the PUBLIC VENUE. This could possibly be done with an “open source” code system, but that has to be developed, and, in the meantime, what do we do?
If Germany and Canada can hand-count their ballots, with no problems whatsoever, why can’t we? BECAUSE our system has been CORPORATIZED. Corporatized public officials won’t spend money on restoring public participation in vote counting and making it work. But they WILL give millions of our tax dollars to corporations to royally fuck us over! The money is not going where it should go. And everything possible has been done to reduce public participation, to alienate the public, and to hide information from the public, not just the ‘TRADE SECRET’ code itself, but all aspects of elections – for instance, changing the voter registrations of long time Democrats to Republican, prior to the recent Democratic Primaries, without telling the voters of the change, and with no remedy available on election day, or just purging voters arbitrarily if they happen to be in a Bernie Sanders demographic!
These things are outrageous, in and of themselves, and they are caused by the corporate culture of secrecy and hostility to the public that has invaded our entire system, along with the corporate-owned technology that makes election fraud on a massive scale EASY.
IF our election officials were not corporatized and privatized (i.e., into the power and money around electronic voting), they would FIND A WAY to count multi-candidate and multi-issue ballots IN THE PUBLIC VENUE. There is no will. There is no desire to have transparent vote counting.
Why isn’t there money to hold several elections, to uncomplicate the ballot? Because all the money is going to PRIVATE corporations! Why isn’t there money to adequately train and pay an abundance of election workers? Why isn’t there money to open more poling places, rather than closing them? Why isn’t there money to develop an open-source code system that is owned by the public? Why isn’t there money to do the MINIMUM audit necessary to detect fraud in an electronic system (10%)? Why are recounts so expensive and almost impossible to obtain? All the money is going to PRIVATE corporations – to make election fraud “more efficient”!
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Peace Patriot - post #13) September 11, 2016 at 12:08 am
14. German and Canada do hand counts because their elections are vastly simpler
I live in a county that has parts of 17 state legislative districts, four different congressional districts, 30 cities and towns, sewer, water and school board districts. Oh–and initiatives, bond issues and referenda on top of that. It is flat out not possible to get enough people to hand count each race separately. BTW, in parliamentary systems, you vote for a single slate, not individual candidates.
There was a mandated hand recount for the WA State governor’s race in 2004, which was not finished until the 2nd week of December.
Peace Patriot (3083 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #14) September 11, 2016 at 4:18 am
15. Why not change the circumstances that create elections that only corporations…
…can count with ‘TRADE SECRET’ code?
Why not solve the problems that make it difficult for citizens to count the votes and SEE their votes counted?
It is flat out not possible to get enough people to hand count each race separately.
What if they were paid properly instead of the money fattening the coffers of big, evil, devious, rightwing-connected, PRIVATE corporations?
What if transportation was provided? What if bonuses were provided for efficiency? What if meals were provided? What if child care were provided?
Our system has been thoroughly corrupted, privatized and corporatized. The problem is how to un-corrupt it, how to un-privatize it, how to de-corporatize it. In my view, this is the biggest crisis in our democracy since the Civil War! It is ESSENTIAL that we solve this problem, or our democracy is OVER. It is fundamental. We simply cannot have private corporations running our elections. We cannot have ‘TRADE SECRET’ code in our elections. Period. End of story. So, how do we do it?
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Peace Patriot - post #15) September 11, 2016 at 11:09 pm
16. OK–where do we get the money?
King County elections workers are well paid, but there aren’t enough of them, because the department is always getting its budget cut.
Peace Patriot (3083 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #16) September 12, 2016 at 10:53 pm
17. Yes, we have a "which came first, chicken or egg" problem. However…
…the counting of our votes is SO fundamental that we MUST solve it. Democracy simply does not exist if vote counting is controlled by private corporations using code that we, the people, are not permitted to review!
That isn’t the totality of the problem, but that is the heart of it. And, yes, public officials who have benefited from a system awash in money, lobbying, “revolving door” employment, banksterism and war profiteering – both Democrats and Republicans – are not going to evict private corporations from our voting system without a mass movement like we have not seen since the Civil Rights era. But we have a couple of things going for us:
The movement, of necessity, has to be local, and we have a better chance at pressuring local officials than national ones. Your local registrar of voters might live down the street from you. In many states, the state capitol is not that far away. This is a manageable venue for ordinary people.
Ordinary people of all kinds, no matter their political views, can support clean vote counting enthusiastically – it is a great coalition-building issue.
Everybody knows something is wrong. This isn’t everything that’s wrong, by any means, but it is SO wrong – so fundamental – that it blockades other vital reforms – on campaign finance, filthy lobbying, media monopolies, entities that are “too big to fail,” fair taxation, fair trade, the catastrophe of global warming – anything and everything that needs doing is blockaded by the wrong people fraudulently gaining public office and then completely ignoring the common good. This puts the whole political system on the wrong track on every issue.
eridani (2929 posts) (Reply to Peace Patriot - post #17) September 13, 2016 at 9:37 pm
18. Sure–they support clean vote counting–they just won't pay for it
It’s just plain silly to yearn for massive infusions of funds to pay for hand counting.. An easy fix that can be implemented right away is to legally require more extensive auditing.
Peace Patriot (3083 posts) (Reply to eridani - post #18) September 13, 2016 at 9:55 pm
19. Yes, that's true! A 10% audit is recommended by experts…
…whom I respect as the minimum necessary to detect fraud in an electronic system.
It won’t solve every problem that privatization has created but it’s a very good start – it’s simple and doable, and local, and as one locality does it, others will ask, “Why can’t we have a better audit?”
It’s also a very good public education point. Nearly everybody knows there is something very wrong with our political system, and I am totally convinced that most people want honest elections and good government. A 10% audit would not only start making a difference in who gets elected, it can open up our system – the election system and the political system – to good questions about public participation, corruption and corporate interference.
Excellent suggestion! Excellent place to start!
About a third of the states do NO AUDIT AT ALL! (No ballot, nothing to count.) These are mostly the southern states, and they can be the crucial difference in a national election (or, as we saw recently, send a national primary in entirely the wrong direction). So that has to be worked on as well, locally, and maybe by coordinated, mutually supportive efforts across state lines.
If every state in the country had a paper/e-voting system with a 10% audit, I think we would be well on our way to political reform.
MRM1024 (234 posts) (Reply to original post) August 4, 2016 at 1:30 pm
12. More News
The latest thing I heard is that the UN will be investigating Hillary Clinton for election fraud. If this goes well they could force action to be taken, because it is obvious now, that certain parties are dragging their feet. I only saw the letter requesting this and I have not found any confirmation yet, but I hope that it is true.