Jackpine Pets

Home Jackpine Pets

arab girl dances with her stallion!

  • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
    Profile photo of Magical Thyme

    arab girl dances with her stallion!

    Awesome! Mounted bridleless, plus groundwork. Circus moves plus decent piaffe and changes a tempi!

    Enthusiast, Downwinder, melurkyoulongtime and 3 othersjwirr, HeartoftheMidwest, daleanime like this

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

▼ Hide Reply Index
30 replies
    • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
      Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

      1. Is that cruel? "Pressed into service means pressed out of shape."

      • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
        Profile photo of Magical Thyme

        4. not sure if you're joking, but the soft rein and overall appearance

        show that the horse isn’t being forced into anything.

        Pressed into service can mean pressed *into* shape.

        • Jan Boehmermann (4219 posts)
          Profile photo of Jan Boehmermann Donor

          5. No, Blueshoes is not joking.

          Extremely cruel methods are used to train the horse to do those unnatural movements.

          • LiberalElite (5558 posts)
            Profile photo of LiberalElite Donor

            6. Thank you for posting this. . nt

            I feel much better since I've given up hope
          • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
            Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

            9. That is impossible to watch without getting angry

            Perhaps some of those cowboys need a taste of their own evil.

          • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
            Profile photo of Magical Thyme

            10. mostly obvious abuse AND incorrect "training"

            having a hard time replying because I keep blowing my replies away.

            short version: I’ve spent a number of years alongside international trainers and competitors. My first riding teacher produced a 3-time Olympic individual gold medalist. I’ve also watched Spanish Riding School training sessions which are open to the public so nothing is hidden.

            Those videos do NOT represent correct or acceptable dressage training in any form whatsoever. They would be banned from competition were they seen. That is NOT the proper way to teach piaffe in any way, shape or form.

            That abuse is no different than child abuse or elder abuse. And dressage trainers should not be condemned any more than parents or elder caregivers as a whole should be condemned because the bad actions of a few.

          • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
            Profile photo of Magical Thyme

            13. here are some examples of correct and totally non-abusive piaffe training

            First  a quick description: I rode for 2 years in the same barn as an FEI trainer long-listed by the USET, during which time I was in the arena almost daily while she taught her horse piaffe. She worked the horse on “short-reins,” which is to say that she walked along behind him very close to the hind quarters, and asked him gently to go forward. Her assistant walked backwards ahead of him and offered him a sugar cube every time he took what is called a “half-step,” which is how it is properly started.

            Here is video of a good trainer introducing an older stallion to half-step, working without an assistant. He’s been working with the horse for 2 years in preparation for this next step in his training.

            Here is a different approach to starting, this time with the assistant on the horse and the trainer on the ground. Notice how gently he strokes the horse with the “whip,” which he uses to gauge the horse’s sensitivity and to guide. This is a much more sensitive and reactive horse than the above horse. He is from the “soft” German school, which I was introduced to by an old master, Fritz Stecken.

            Here is a different approach from the ground. Here he guides the horse to show what he wants him to do. The piaffe is a natural movement that horses often do on their own in specific certain circumstances (eg my mare Maizie “sat down” and piaffed one day her 1st week here, just out of excitement) — the question is how do you explain to them what you’d like them to do. The answer is one step at a time. It’s like developing an alphabet of touches, and then words and then sentences and then paragraphs.

            You can find many, many videos of correct training online by non-Olympic level trainers. In no way are any of the horses above being abused or misused. Furthermore,correctly used these kinds of exercises actually improve their health and longevity as riding horses, preventing potentially painful and debilitating health issues such as sway back and concussion damage to the joints.

          • Abakan (2843 posts)
            Profile photo of Abakan Moderator Emeritus

            15. I'm sure in some encounters requiring humans to interact with other animals…

            There will be cruelty. Man is a cruel creature.

            And then there are those who work with these animals in the most

            respectful and gentle ways possible.

            The subject of MT’s video is doing what it is doing because it wants to,

            when she takes off the bridle the only communication between rider and

            mount is through touch. It is clear this horse loves this girl and the girl

            loves this horse.

            Everyone here is outraged at people who mistreat any animal, but gentle

            training and mutual affection is what we are talking about here and it does

            not include cruelty and should not be lumped with a beautiful display

            of training, affection and awesome horsewoman ship.

            We celebrate our pets, because we love them.

            There are only two things in life, but I forget what they are. John Hiatt
        • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
          Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

          8. You may be correct

          On the balance, I am against the intricate training of animals for what I see as human entertainment, be the animals orca, dolphins, elephants, tigers, cats, or horses.

           

          • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
            Profile photo of Magical Thyme

            11. please see my reply above

            I’ve tried to add to it half a dozen times and blown each reply away.

            Please be aware that I trained my rescued arabian to FEI levels of dressage — everything short of piaffe, which he wasn’t strong enough to do so we never really tried, and canter pirouettes which we were working on but a pasture injury cut his career short — never doing anything remotely like what is shown in that video. And the majority of dressage trainers don’t because they are 1. abusive and 2. just plain wrong. The dressage “whip” is supposed to be an extension of your arm, so you can touch, or at most lightly tap, the horse from a distance to give them a signal.  There is no room for chains or whatever the rigging was used in the pillars. I’ve seen the stallions of the Spanish Riding School work in pillars — no special rigging involved.

            Dressage is about improving communication and harmony with your horse, period. I would say the more “intricate” training is similar to the “intricate” training of, say, a sheepdog.

            My life dream was performance, but I didn’t with my gelding in part because although he loved an audience, he got too excited by shows to be good at them and I didn’t have the time plus money to give him the time he needed to more relaxed about it. He did give “performances” in front of people when I was riding in the arena, and more than once I got quiet comments from parents of student (eg, you two are a joy to watch).

            Horses are domesticated, not wild animals forced into captivity and forced into performance. Horses such as the one in the video I posted generally enjoy what they are doing because they like to use their bodies, and many enjoy an audience.

            I don’t know if you watched the entire video, but the last half the woman is on the ground, the horse is loose in the arena and free to do whatever he likes.  Nothing ever indicates anything other than comfort and happiness around the woman. If he in any way, shape or form feared her, he wouldn’t behave the way he does, nor would he have the demeanor he shows.

             

      • Abakan (2843 posts)
        Profile photo of Abakan Moderator Emeritus

        16. The horse is not a piece of garlic to be pressed.

        This horse has never been treated with anything but love and kindness.

        It would not work with it’s rider in the same way had it been mistreated,

        not being a horse person I can only tell you a horse trainer who mistreats

        their animals are usually don’t produce quality mounts. That is not the case here.

         

        There are only two things in life, but I forget what they are. John Hiatt
        • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
          Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

          17. Perhaps

          ‘Trained” captive dolphins appear happy, as well.

          They are not.

          I believe in enrichment-based training so as to instill

          behavior that is beneficial to the animal.

          I gently ‘trained’ tigers to roll on their back so I can inspect their underside;

          behavior that ensures the cats’ health.

          I do not believe in training animals

          purely for the satisfaction or amusement of humans.

           

           

          • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
            Profile photo of Magical Thyme

            18. captive dolphins appear happy because they have a fixed 'smile' on their faces

            Body language and overall demeanor of horses is very clear to horse people.

            And dolphins and the other animals you’ve referred to are wild animals. And I agree that wild animals should not be captured and made to perform.

            Where I disagree is that there is a huge difference between wild animals and domesticated animals, including domesticated feral animals.

            And as I’ve written in numerous posts now, given the choice, gentled ‘feral’ horses as well as domestic horses have demonstrated to me time and again that they choose their safe havens and enjoy riding. Many clearly enjoy performing, as demonstrated by their body language.

             

            • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
              Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

              19. I understand your view

              Personally, I am happy just brushing and stroking and talking to and listening to and walking with the horse.

              • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
                Profile photo of Magical Thyme

                20. you're welcome to come brush my horses in my barn…

                after you help muck out the stalls, lug 40 pound bags of shavings from the garage to the barn, scrub water buckets, lug water from the kitchen in winter (up to 20 gallons/day sometimes through thigh-deep snow, others like this year on glare ice and yes I’ve fallen twice already this year), move 50 pound bales of hay from the storage shed into the barn (I’ve moved over 50 bales so in the past 6 weeks, just the other day after I spent 45 minutes chipping through ice and taking the shed door off its hinges and before I spent another 20 re-attaching the door and yes, my arm is still very sore from unscrewing and re-screwing the hinges a couple feet above my head), and picking a dozen piles/day of the manure from the pasture. All in sub-freezing weather; often well below zero and in high winds.

                I just thought I’d mention that since some genius mentioned somewhere else that s/he likened riding horses to enslaving them.

                Btw, the training I give them is what causes them to walk up to you, nuzzle you, and let you stroke them, versus running away. When I rescued Maizie, who had lived out and barely been handled her entire life, it was a full week before she would let me touch her and then only because she blew a severe abcess, which covered about 1/2 the sole of her hoof and was both extremely painful and crippling. Iow, she only let me touch her because she desperately needed help and prompt medical care.

                Training is not specifically about entertainment; it’s about safety and usefulness, which ultimately translates into them being valued and assured of better lives versus ending up headed to the slaughterhouse because there aren’t enough rich people in the world to keep them as simple pasture pets. Even when entertainment is the ultimate end, that’s as much as about providing a livelihood for professionals as anything else, which again leads to better management and care.

                • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
                  Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

                  23. I was a zoo keeper (as well as head mucker-outer :)

                  I made up a song called the “??? Flop Song”

                  where I filled in the ??? with the name of the animal.

                  “Busker Bear’s Flop Song” was a zoo favorite, as far as I know.

                  • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
                    Profile photo of Magical Thyme

                    24. I have a real problem with zoos myself

                    because there is such a huge difference between wild animals and domesticated animals. Given the opportunity, feral animals are more likely to revert to their more recent, domesticated heritage.

                    • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
                      Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

                      25. Agreed.

            • Bluesuedeshoes (2309 posts)
              Profile photo of Bluesuedeshoes Donor

              21. Then again

              I no longer fly fish – not even catch and release – because I feel it hurts the fish.

              I never cage cats or dogs. I use a soft body-harness when moving them.

              I always carry dog treats in my right pocket and sunflower seeds in my left

              in case I come across a squirrel, bird or rabbit.

              Yes, I talk to the animals same as I talk to people.

              So, I am looking for a bun fight. My view of animals is not the standard.

          • Abakan (2843 posts)
            Profile photo of Abakan Moderator Emeritus

            22. This is a horse, not a dolphin

            Your trying to advance your agenda. If you do not believe in training

            animals, please don’t train any and by all means don’t enjoy them. Just because

            you don’t do something, please let the rest of us enjoy our animal, trained

            or untrained.

            There are only two things in life, but I forget what they are. John Hiatt
    • NV Wino (5120 posts)
      Profile photo of NV Wino Donor

      2. That woman has thighs of steel!

      and what a positively gorgeous animal!

      Resist-sm_zpswfchkz8t “As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore.” Barbara Lee  
      • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
        Profile photo of Magical Thyme

        3. back, butt, thighs and calves of flexible steel

        Takes all of the above to sit all 3 gaits, and such turns and movements so quietly melded into and one with the horse.

        Gorgeous horse with wonderful temperament. Obviously very well loved by, and in love with, his lady. The Bedouins are awesome horse people…

         

    • oldandhappy (3790 posts)
      Profile photo of oldandhappy Donor

      7. wow magnificent animal

      Very different from the white horses out of Vienna.

      Invest in people.  Seek TRUTH.
      • Magical Thyme (2849 posts)
        Profile photo of Magical Thyme

        12. different breed, so different conformation and temperament

        Arabians are hot-bloods, that is they are more sensitive and reactive than the cold-bloods. As desert horses, they are very light and fine-skinned which supports cooling off in the desert heat. They also have large nostrils and very large airways, which also helps them in the desert temperatures and gives great endurance. Their “grass cutter” type movement provides speed and endurance over desert sand (and was passed on to the Thoroughbred). The Bedouins selectively bred them for speed, endurance and an “in your tent” temperament. The prized war mares literally slept in the tents with their human, to keep them safe from being stolen and to have them readily available in the event of a raid. Mares were used for raids because stallions tend to announce their arrival loudly, whereas the mares would be ‘silent but deadly’ in attack.

        Lipizzaners (the horses bred by and trained at the Spanish Riding School of Vienna) are kind of an early version of the European warmblood. They are a cross of native draft-type horses with Iberian horses (the Lusitaner of Portugal and the Andalusian of Spain), which are themselves a cross of native horses and barbs (from Morocco iirc). They were initially bred to be carriage horses and war horses, with the performances presumably used as demonstrations of their training during non-war times. They are bigger boned and heavier built than arabians, so they stay warm more easily during cold climates. They have a “rounder” gait (moderately high knee and hock action) which is more suitable to keeping good footing over varied and mountainous terrain (which tends to trip up “grass cutters”.

        • oldandhappy (3790 posts)
          Profile photo of oldandhappy Donor

          14. Thank you!

          I love information.  Appreciate you taking time to tell me/us this.  Appreciate the videos.

          Invest in people.  Seek TRUTH.
    Share